Want to try to turn pro

[RFKFREAK]

Neither of my kids know. My daughter is a really good counter example. She's getting almost perfect scores in every subject has art, and three instruments (and, no, we aren't the ones pushing her) and plays every sport in the "varsity category". She has no idea at all what she wants to do in the future.

My son barely makes all A grades, and kind of knows but not for sure. He's probably going into science or pre-Med? Or possibly something totally unrelated?

I also know many (probably more than 100) other self over achieving kids who also don't know what they want to do.

Kids really need to explore themselves, each one does it a completely different way. Nothing is certain anymore, and finding something where they can be passionate is the right approach. This will teach them to drive themselves to where they want to be someday.

The OP might very well find that golf is really hard, then work super hard in his senior year and work hard at a college then possibly university? Or he might even become a pro golfer? No one knows.

We can both give anecdotal evidence to help our positions.  I just disagree with your portion of it where you said, "odds are."

but I'd be curious to know if a study has been done to see what percentages of kids that are freshmen or sophomores in high school know what they want to do by college age and follow through with it.

[Lihu]

[QUOTE name="Lihu" url="/t/79126/want-to-try-to-turn-pro/162#post_1098133"] Neither of my kids know. My daughter is a really good counter example. She's getting almost perfect scores in every subject has art, and three instruments (and, no, we aren't the ones pushing her) and plays every sport in the "varsity category". She has no idea at all what she wants to do in the future. My son barely makes all A grades, and kind of knows but not for sure. He's probably going into science or pre-Med? Or possibly something totally unrelated? I also know many (probably more than 100) other self over achieving kids who also don't know what they want to do. Kids really need to explore themselves, each one does it a completely different way. Nothing is certain anymore, and finding something where they can be passionate is the right approach. This will teach them to drive themselves to where they want to be someday. The OP might very well find that golf is really hard, then work super hard in his senior year and work hard at a college then possibly university? Or he might even become a pro golfer? No one knows.[/QUOTE] We can both give anecdotal evidence to help our positions.  I just disagree with your portion of it where you said, "odds are."   :offtopic:  but I'd be curious to know if a study has been done to see what percentages of kids that are freshmen or sophomores in high school [COLOR=181818]know what they want to do by college age and follow through with it.[/COLOR]

At least I cited examples. . . Having researched this topic at length as a parent and engineering mentor to many interns, my anecdotal evidence might be at least reasonable. Not everyone with a technical or engineering was a straight A student. Many kids found their inspiration and drive at 15, some even much later. The key is for the kid to be inspired.

[RFKFREAK]

At least I cited examples. . .

Having researched this topic at length as a parent and engineering mentor to many interns, my anecdotal evidence might be at least reasonable.

Not everyone with a technical or engineering was a straight A student. Many kids found their inspiration and drive at 15, some even much later.

The key is for the kid to be inspired.

Oh, I can cite examples which would argue the opposite position from experiences I've had, I just don't think it strengthen's an argument because it's just more anecdotal evidence which I think contributes very little.  This is why I said I'd be intrigued to see if a study was done and what the results of said study were.

I just think your usage of the phrase, "odds are," is inaccurate because you seem to be basing it off your very micro-level personal experiences.

[MrFlipper]

His swing looks pretty decent, in 2-3 years he could even play collegiate golf. . .

I'd say you are being unrealistic here. I've played with many sophomore level high school players over the years, and watched many practice, they may be 3-4 handicaps but on first impression their swings look beautiful and they hit it an absolute mile. And they may not improve enough to make any college team, let alone D1.  The OP would have to rebuild his swing to compete in college, folks don't understand how good college players are, and how much better pros are than that---

Maybe he needs to become a good player first.

You talk about becoming a pro after you get good, not before.

And by "good", in context, I mean + plus handicap and better than all the other plus handicaps you play against.

This thread (and the dozens along exactly the same lines) is just ridiculous.

Amen. Worrying about all this other stuff is putting the cart before the horse. Unless the guy is an absolute natural this is so uphill it's ridiculous. I feel like I'm commenting on the Dan Plan thread

[Lihu]

[QUOTE name="Lihu" url="/t/79126/want-to-try-to-turn-pro/180#post_1098251"] At least I cited examples. . . Having researched this topic at length as a parent and engineering mentor to many interns, my anecdotal evidence might be at least reasonable. Not everyone with a technical or engineering was a straight A student. Many kids found their inspiration and drive at 15, some even much later. The key is for the kid to be inspired.[/QUOTE] Oh, I can cite examples which would argue the opposite position from experiences I've had, I just don't think it strengthen's an argument because it's just more [COLOR=181818]anecdotal evidence which I think contributes very little.  This is[/COLOR] [COLOR=181818]why I said I'd be intrigued to see if a study was done and what the results of said study were.  [/COLOR] [COLOR=181818]I just think your usage of the phrase, "odds are," is inaccurate because you seem to be basing it off your very micro-level personal experiences. [/COLOR]

Most scientific knowledge is anecdotal in the beginning. The idea is to collect enough anecdotal data to generate a reasonable hypothesis. My micro level personal experience is probably a lot deeper than you seem to think. I enjoy talking to a lot of people, and have a reasonable retention of the conversations. I also have enjoyed the opportunity of mentoring many new engineers. I get to know what kinds of things they will be good at doing from their aptitude and history. Our histories make us who we are today, and I have seen many examples of frustrated individuals that have not had the opportunity to try something with passion in their lives. This is why I think the OP is doing something worthwhile. Maybe he's a little too "big headed" for some peoples liking, but I know a lot of teens and many are like that. Some want to be an "actor", "singer", etc. What can I say? A dream is a dream. In my job, I need to work with every kind of person, and I get to learn a lot about them interacting with them. There are arrogant people and timid people, and that's just what makes us unique. I have found that some of the arrogant ones can work really hard to get something done. It's their drive mechanism for success. I have also worked with timid ones who once you get them in their comfort zone can really get out of their shells and get their work done with vigor. The ones that tried the "impossible" in their youth tended to to be wiser for it. This is why many top name universities look for kids who have done something with passion in their youthful lives. Does it make them better than someone who didn't? I think so. I'm not bashing people who lead mediocre lives, because that is the path they chose. In my view, everyone has the ability to accomplish something that makes them satisfied and happy. I had one engineer, who got his masters degree in Electronics Engineering from Iran and for some reason we hired him to be a test engineer. He was so timid and uncomfortable doing hardware tasks that some of my colleagues gave up on him. One of them, who I've known for 23 years stated that he should look into "a garbage collection career". This was a complete shock to me, and made me very unhappy. So, I worked with this engineer for a few weeks and found that he has a really good aptitude for SW. I had him work on some FPGA (field programmable gate array) code testing and debugging. To put it lightly, he was the happiest man on earth when he successfully wrote his first logic code after finding a major bug in the system. He now writes code for our company, and he feels like he is the SW equivalent of a PGA pro. He now comes to work early and leaves late working diligently throughout the entire day. Needlessly said I also feel really good about this. Like someone earlier stated, if I gave up every time someone said something was impossible I would never have accomplished anything in my life. This statement goes for everyone. As for the OP, if his parents support his dream by letting him try it for a while he should definitely try. If he finds that it is an impossible goal, he will probably quit on his own knowing that at least he tried. Usually a failed experience like this one will give him renewed vigor to honestly pursue his schooling or something else that is financially and personally gratifying. It was good for us to caution him against ruining his life, but, at his age, he should try different things. Really, if you don't try things out as a teen, when do you try them out?

[golfbarefoot]

I can totally relate to this thread and these deep intellectual posts. After I received this prestigious award, I truly wanted to turn pro also and play for US Men's Soccer team in the World Cup

[RFKFREAK]

Most scientific knowledge is anecdotal in the beginning. The idea is to collect enough anecdotal data to generate a reasonable hypothesis.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lihu

My micro level personal experience is probably a lot deeper than you seem to think. I enjoy talking to a lot of people, and have a reasonable retention of the conversations. I also have enjoyed the opportunity of mentoring many new engineers. I get to know what kinds of things they will be good at doing from their aptitude and history. Our histories make us who we are today, and I have seen many examples of frustrated individuals that have not had the opportunity to try something with passion in their lives. This is why I think the OP is doing something worthwhile.

No, I think I have a very good understanding of your micro level personal experiences.  You've shared a lot about your experiences, not only in this thread, but in others, and I can confidently say your micro level experience isn't sufficient enough to make a reasonable hypothesis as you did earlier.  It's not because of your and your experiences, it's because I don't think for the hypothesis you put forward one person can collect enough information based on their experience.  Not only do I think you need to get a big enough sample size, I think that sample size has to take into account many variables, for example, background, culture, socioeconomic condition, to get an accurate cross-section of the population.

[Lihu]

I can totally relate to this thread and these deep intellectual posts. After I received this prestigious award, I truly wanted to turn pro also and play for US Men's Soccer team in the World Cup

Sorry, normally too deep for my taste too. I just prefer to discuss concrete things. Yeah, my kids have a wall full of these trophies where some are 3x bigger than their few real accomplishments. :-D

[Lihu]

[QUOTE name="Lihu" url="/t/79126/want-to-try-to-turn-pro/180#post_1098272"] Most scientific knowledge is anecdotal in the beginning. The idea is to collect enough anecdotal data to generate a reasonable hypothesis.  [/QUOTE] [QUOTE name="Lihu" url="/t/79126/want-to-try-to-turn-pro/180#post_1098272"] My micro level personal experience is probably a lot deeper than you seem to think. I enjoy talking to a lot of people, and have a reasonable retention of the conversations. I also have enjoyed the opportunity of mentoring many new engineers. I get to know what kinds of things they will be good at doing from their aptitude and history. Our histories make us who we are today, and I have seen many examples of frustrated individuals that have not had the opportunity to try something with passion in their lives. This is why I think the OP is doing something worthwhile.  [/QUOTE]

Sorry, but this is neither constructive, nor on topic.

[RFKFREAK]

Sorry, but this is neither constructive, nor on topic.

I agree, your bringing up that m ost scientific knowledge is anecdotal in the beginning and stating that you think micro level personal experience is probably a lot deeper than I seem to think is neither constructive nor on topic.

[Lihu]

[QUOTE name="Lihu" url="/t/79126/want-to-try-to-turn-pro/180#post_1098287"] Sorry, but this is neither constructive, nor on topic.[/QUOTE] I agree, your bringing up that most scientific knowledge is anecdotal in the beginning and stating that you think micro level personal experience is probably a lot deeper than I seem to think is neither constructive nor on topic.

So, other than making anectdotal statements against what others write, do you have a specific set of reasons to think the OP is not doing the right thing?

[turtleback]

way too many words to quote

Sorry, but this is neither constructive, nor on topic.

What in the world leads you to believe that even the anecdotal evidence you present is representative, given the extraordinarily narrow slice of people you base it on.  Gee, people who work in engineering, there is a representative cross section of society,certainly a population from which you want to draw conclusion about.

If we want to go anecdotal I'll put up my 15 years of teaching a cross section of students, from honors students to at-risk kids in remedial programs.  I even have an anecdote about my own daughter that would support your point BUT it is an anecdote, not evidence.  Because I also have anecdotes completely contra to your position.  I do not detail either because they are irrelevant to the discussion..

I'm also guessing here, that the probability of that Iranian engineer turning out to be good at software is just a tad higher than the probability that a 15 year old with an 8 handicap will ever make any money playing professional golf.  By maybe 4 or 5 orders of magnitude?  Which certainly bring into question the applicability of your anecdote when the situation under review is so completely different.

[RFKFREAK]

So, other than making anectdotal statements against what others write, do you have a specific set of reasons to think the OP is not doing the right thing?

I view it more as taking issue when someone states something as though it's an certainty rather than what it is, an opinion.

As far as OP, he hasn't contributed to this thread much since his initial few posts and from his my swing thread, it's obvious he didn't come here to contribute to the forum and that he came to take take take so in that sense, IMO, he didn't do the right thing.  More to the focus of this thread, I'm generally the type of person that doesn't put all his eggs in one basket, so, like a few other people in this thread, I'd say put forth the effort but also concentrate on school because the chances of making it are very slim and it's good to have a backup plan.  There are people who are comfortable with the idea of going for their dream, no matter how difficult it may be to achieve it, without having a safety net, and think they can handle extreme variances in life.  I don't think I'd do well with extreme variance in my life so I try and avoid it when I can and generally would advise people to pursue a course of action where they can limit that extreme variance.

[golfbarefoot]

My facial expression the moment I also realized... I want to try to turn pro..

[Lihu]

[QUOTE name="Lihu" url="/t/79126/want-to-try-to-turn-pro/180#post_1098412"] So, other than making anectdotal statements against what others write, do you have a specific set of reasons to think the OP is not doing the right thing?[/QUOTE] I view it more as taking issue when someone states something as though it's an certainty rather than what it is, an opinion. As far as OP, he hasn't contributed to this thread much since his initial few posts and from his my swing thread, it's obvious he didn't come here to contribute to the forum and that he came to take take take so in that sense, IMO, he didn't do the right thing.  More to the focus of this thread, I'm generally the type of person that doesn't put all his eggs in one basket, so, like a few other people in this thread, I'd say put forth the effort but also concentrate on school because the chances of making it are very slim and it's good to have a backup plan.  There are people who are comfortable with the idea of going for their dream, no matter how difficult it may be to achieve it, without having a safety net, and think they can handle extreme variances in life.  I don't think I'd do well with extreme variance in my life so I try and avoid it when I can and generally would advise people to pursue a course of action where they can limit that extreme variance.

Ah, I get your point. Yes, I suppose I was passing off my opinion as a "fact". I'm generally not as careful posting on a forum as I am in my professional settings. Some people, like us, don't like to "put all our eggs in one basket". However, I've learned through the years that it takes different personalities to do different jobs, so what might work for us does not mean it will work for everyone. The OP seems to be a very open type of person who wants to share his dreams and see what everyone thinks. He's still 15-ish, and at that age you can attempt such things. The "taking" part of his personality has nothing to do with this thread, but I can see why some people responsed accordingly. I don't, because my life has too much going on to think back on what someone did to me days, weeks, months or years ago. I just respond to the situation at hand. Grudges take so much energy and thought, it's just not worth it to me. Sorry if I insulted you, and I will be more careful in the future.

[Lihu]

My facial expression the moment I also realized... I want to try to turn pro..

I believe he was saying "Wellllll. . .we're waiting. . ." :-D

[Shorty]

How I see myself in 5 years if I really work hard at my golf, because I really

really believe I can do it.

[Lihu]

[CONTENTEMBED=/t/79126/want-to-try-to-turn-pro/180#post_1098441 layout=inline]How I see myself in 5 years if I really work hard at my golf, because I really  really believe I can do it. [URL=http://thesandtrap.com/content/type/61/id/113034/] [/URL] [/CONTENTEMBED]

Nah, this just inspires me to do something other than golf. . .:-D