Buyer's Remorse

[colin007]

Sorry to hijack, but what is the "Sharpie" test" Edit- never mind, I found it.

[SavvySwede]

Sorry to hijack, but what is the "Sharpie" test"

You draw a vertical sharpie line on the ball, hitting the ball leaves a sharpie mark on the clubface. If the line isn't perfectly vertical on the clubface it indicates the lie angle is off at impact.

[colin007]

Thanks, I'm going to try it.

[WedgeHead]

If you're 5'10" and 2 degrees flat, do your knuckles drag on the ground when walking? The most important measurement for lie is your arm length with respect to your height. Ping has some good charts on their fitting site.

Good one. I'm about 5'10" and according to ping's fitting criteria, I'm supposed to use standard lie. I guess he assumed everyone has long arms.

[Christopher]

Hi, I'm looking at your post and can relate to your frustration, but the one thing that stands out is your comment about how when you slow down, make full shoulder turn, etc., that you hit great shots.  Respectfully, it sounds as though you'd be well served investing in lessons from a good instructor. This goes back to what most of us need rather than new clubs, myself included, but those shiny things are hard to resist LOL!

First, I'm not an expert.  I'm a 19 handicap, been playing 5 years, am 58 years old, and made vast improvements (used to keep score by how many balls I'd lose, my last two scores were 93 on 18 and 42 on front 9. 

Anyway, I've been drooling over the JPX 850s, and almost pulled the trigger more than a couple of times.  But, because I'd go out one day and hit so well I felt I could play on tour, then go out the next week and chunk/slice/top everything, I swallowed my pride and admitted it's the Indian, not the arrow. 

So, I spent $120 on a 1 hour lesson with a guy I'd seen a year ago (yep, too cheap to pay for lessons!  First thing I told him was exactly what my misses were, how they occur, , the feel vs. real I experience, etc. Then, I told him, "I want you to evaluate me, and rather than only giving me a quick fix or tweak, give me 3 or 4 drills I can take with me to practice, and give me a way to fix my miss when I'm on the course.

The lesson went very well, I was hitting 'em pure, but more importantly, I understood the mechanics and how to replicate it.  That was 3 or 4 weeks ago, and I've been practicing what he taught me at least 3-4 times a week (I live on the golf course so it's easy, but when I can't get out, I'll use an impact bag, or at the very least, do some SLOW practice swings inside), and I use a mirror or video, even when hitting the impact bag.  It's been working out well.  So, yesterday I walked out to the tee box, measured off 155 with the rangefinder, hit my 6 iron and hit some pure shots, grouping about 6 balls within a 20' circle, and 2 landed within 5' of each other.  Then, I measured at 165 yards, hit the 5 iron, and did the same.  More satisfying than the consistent distance and grouping was the pureness of the strikes. Nirvana!!  And don't under rate the confidence factor; what a feeling I have when I step up to the tee, check the yardage, and fully expect to stick the green or send the ball the exact distance I need to. 

My point to all this? I GAME THE ADAMS A4 IDEA TECH CAST irons, and when I came inside I told my wife, "You know, I'm so glad I didn't spend the money on those new clubs!"  I mean, those shots didn't feel any better than any club I've tried lately, which include the JPX850 forged and cast, MP5, Callaway Apex forged and cast, RSi 2,  and others.  Yes, the distance is phenomenal on the Callaway and RSi, but that's not going to help me if I can't consistently hit the sweet spot, and if you're consistent you can hit greens when you need to with whatever club you need to, so money spent on lessons is a better value.  ANY club, when struck on the sweet spot feels great, and you're kidding yourself if you think you'll get better with game improvement clubs.  Yes, the new "distance irons" may let you hit an 8 where you used to use a 7, or a 7 when you used to hit a 6, but you've still got to be able to hit the ball correctly.  Yes, we all want forgiveness on mis hits, and it's my opinion that you've got to quit mis-hitting the ball to play great golf, and with super game improvement clubs (not the JPX), I don't think you'll get there.  You've got some great clubs in the JPX850, and if you stick with them and get some lessons and practice 3 times a week minimum and practice the RIGHT way, you'll be loving golf. The secret's in the dirt, to coin a phrase

WE SHOULD ALL SPEND MORE MONEY ON LESSONS, NOT NEW CLUBS, FIRST.   MAKE SURE YOUR INSTRUCTOR IS NOT GOING TO PUT YOU ON HIS "ANNUITY PROGRAM" (HIS annuity, with you coming back every week for tweaks on this and that). ALSO, VIDEO YOURSELF EVERY TIME YOU GO THE RANGE, AND REVIEW EVERY SHOT OR EVERY OTHER SHOT TO SEE WHAT YOU'RE DOING.  GOOD INSTRUCTORS ARE IRREPLACEABLE, BUT YOU MUST ALSO BE YOUR OWN TEACHER,  TO A GREAT EXTENT.

Here's my old swing 5 years ago:

http://www.hudl.com/technique/video/view/8WJCbyp7?e=4209014

Here's my swing today.

http://www.hudl.com/technique/video/view/IYj3Vz4I?e=4208930

 

To me, a couple of guys I like on the web who, in my humble opinion have some good stuff and make sense, are:

Robin Symes, Martin Chuck, Rick Shiels, Bradley Hughes has some good content, and Mark Crossfield doesn't do a lot of lessons but does review and compare clubs (watch his driver lesson below).

 

Thanks for letting me voice my opinion, and best of luck to you!

[sirhacksalot]

I made a deal with myself to not change anything and use my current set for atleast 6 months to a year.  However with the end result of going and actually getting fitted for the next. Set I have gone through many clubs the last year but mostly ebay and craigslist.  I am terrified of waiting / wanting for a year getting something new and being disappointed.  I get buyer's remorse about the breakfast menu, It's hard to imagine what it would be like after $1k set of golf clubs.

I hope it all works out.  

[JonMA1]

I agree with everything you've said @Christopher. Lessons from a good instructor would have been more beneficial.

I am and have always been pretty cheap with most big investments. With the exception of tools, it's really easy for me to pick a more moderate choice when spending a lot of money.

But after saving my "allowance" for six months, I decided to pull the trigger and get a set of fitted irons. I could have bought another set off of ebay as I did previously, but I simply wanted something nice. Golf is now the number one hobby in my life. I'm lucky in that the club I belong to has very reasonable rates and I no longer spend as much on my other hobbies. So while I absolutely hate the expression or way of thinking that I "deserve" anything in life, I thought I could justify the purchase.

The 850's are nice. And while there's no way for me to prove it, it's my opinion that the forgiveness they advertise is the real deal. A purely struck 7 iron might get me 150 yards, but an off-center, horrible feeling shot still gives me 140. I'm sure other game improvement clubs do the same thing, but these clubs just felt and looked better.

It was the fitting that was a disappointment last winter. It wasn't anything like what the Mizuno website advertises. But that's ok. Live and learn.

As far as lessons... I'm taking some now from a very good instructor. They are online lessons but I think it's the best I can do under the circumstances of where I live.

In the end, new equipment and even the best instruction can offer very little help for some of us who are simply golf-challenged. When my swing is on, I can use my set of Hogan Radials (from the 80's) and still make nice shots. But when it's off, there isn't an iron in the world than can make up for that abomination.

[newtogolf]

@JonMA1 glad the clubs worked out well for you, they have gotten great reviews.  I replaced the 825's with the 850 Forged and I really like them too, though not as forgiving.

[DrvFrShow]

The 850s are very nice clubs. 

[Christopher]

Hey, guys, good to see everyone's happy! Well, I still want new clubs, but don't know why. I'm hitting my Adams A4 cast clubs very well, feel like I'm getting much more consistent, but as I hit better, I keep wanting that shiny new toy. My 6 is supposed to be a 155-160 yard club, and I went and hit the JPX850, the MP H5 and the MP15 the other day, all were longer, as follows:  JPX was avg. 83.7mph clubhead, 16.1 degree launch, only 3695 spin, but carried 187 yards. Smash factor was 139.7%, with 3 strikes at 141 and 144.7. Dispersion was either 7 yards right or 6 yards left at most, either way. I'm worried if they'll hold the green, does anyone have any real world experience with similar numbers?

I also hit the MP H5, with 82 mph clubhead, 4233 average spin, 18.2 launch, and 178 yard average carry, none as long as the 850 which had two carries at 192. Smash factor averaged 136.

I also hit the MP15, and when struck pure were soooo soft and buttery, and sounded so good.  Clubhead speed was higher at 86 mph, launch was 17.6 degrees, spin was 4362, carry was 177, which is still longer than my current 6.  It's silly to want these MP 15s based on the above stats,but they were so sweet when hit pure.  What do y'all think - if I'm playing some old Adams A4 cast, and playing well enough that I now  expect to hit the greens from 170 in, do you think would I be able to game these, especially if I continue to improve?  Or should I step down to something like the 850s or H5, or the Callaway CF16s, which are a at least a club longer than my Adams, and so far are very easy and forgiving.  Thanks!

My latest swing - a little off the toe, but I like most of the rest of my swing.  https://www.hudl.com/technique/video/view/y7JmeEer

Here's another just before that,  I like the swing better, but caught it on the heel slightly, sorry, it doesn't start til about 1:20 mark. https://www.hudl.com/technique/video/view/P0lR0Lrs#

Edited March 31, 2016 by Christopher

[Mike Boatright]

I wouldn't worry about the clubs as much as the lie angle. I play one degree flat to standard depending on if it's +1/2 inch some of my irons are. If you set up to the ball and the lie angle is flat or level then your good! I prefer it toe'd up or upright a millimeter or 2,but that's just me! I bought this set 3 years ago for 160 bucks in good shape I had them ben't one degree flat standard length dg s-300 shafts. I didn't like them much but played with them a while adapted to them and played well with em. The clubs you bought are very good clubs It's the bigger version 850 version right? As long as the lie angle is A ok and you like the shafts then any set can be turned into something you love who knows? If you hate em down the road sell em it's the way it goes. My sets have gone from Talormade tour preferred cast,Wilson staff forged f1 and now for life probably mizuno blades! Blades feel better to me in combo with a heavier shaft vs a heavier head and lighter kbs shaft or similar. Lighter shafts play very well with bigger heavier cast heads,but heavier heads tend to alter the flex a bit so it's essential to get the flex right. I have a s flex in my 5 irons soft stepped once +1/2 and on degree flat where my 7 iron is standard everything including lie angle s-300's. If you like to tinker you may find in these irons a stiffer x flex works better in the 7- 8 irons and a softer flex in the 5-6.  The head weights are different by a little bit of grams. It's trivial, but real and matters to a degree.

Edited March 31, 2016 by Mike Boatright