One Handed Swing Faster?

[ryunin]

Correction. In the last sentence, there is a mistake. The correct idea is: If one arm unhinges too early and forces the other arm unhinge too early, you slow down the swing.

[Abu3baid]

I'll try to express myself clearly and realistically.

Fact Nr One: With a gripped shaft I was swinging much faster with right arm than with both arms.

Fact Nr Two: I was puzzled.

Fact Nr Three: I noticed that swinging with my right arm only, I unhinge later. My Opinion:  This leads to faster swing and sometimes is called lag.

Fact Nr Four: I noticed that swinging with my left arm only, I unhinge very early. My Opinion:  This leads to slower swing and sometimes is called "not enough lag".

Fact Nr Five: I tried to unhinge later with my left arm only, practicing a couple of swings. I could see I can unhinge later if I want to. Opinion: I created lag in my left arm.

Fact Nr Six: When I used both arms and made sure I unhinge later, I could see that at last I can swing with both arms as quickly as with just right arm.

Opinion: If you make sure you unhinge late enough, swinging your gripped shaft, you don't slow down the swing. Opinion: This principle is reflected with a real club. Even with a real club, if one arm unhinges too late and prevents the other arm unhinge in the process, you slow down the swing unnecessarily.

@shorty was righ t in my opinion in questioning your last post, because I didn't understand what you were trying to say either.

Hinging and unhinging are just not things that you can "do" or not "do" by thinking about it, or trying to consciously control it.  I think the predominate opinion is that with good technique and sequencing you can swing fast, without good technique you swing slower.  This includes the lag created, the hinging/unhinging and all the other parts of the swing though, and not just related to "hinging/unhinging" and "lag".

[billchao]

Two questions, @ryunin : Are you making these swings while hitting a ball? How are you measuring your swing speed?

[iacas]

Fact Nr One: With a gripped shaft I was swinging much faster with right arm than with both arms.

Fact Nr Two: I was puzzled.

I'm puzzled as to why you think this is at all relevant to an actual golf swing with an actual golf club swung at an actual golf ball.

I'm not trying to be a jerk here, but I'm not seeing anything worth discussing here. So… I won't.

Check out the thread(s) to which I've linked.

[ryunin]

Two questions, @ryunin:

Are you making these swings while hitting a ball?

How are you measuring your swing speed?

I have been saying from the beginning that I am doing this experiment with a gripped shaft. Not being upset here, just explaining. Sorry if I haven't said clearly I mean this is a practice swing with a gripped shaft.

[ryunin]

I'm puzzled as to why you think this is at all relevant to an actual golf swing with an actual golf club swung at an actual golf ball.

I'm not trying to be a jerk here, but I'm not seeing anything worth discussing here. So… I won't.

Check out the thread(s) to which I've linked.

OK. I will try to say it differently. I think I have discovered that a gripped shaft / being much lighter than a real golf club / can reveal some big mistakes in one's swing.

As I said previously, I discovered my left arm was unhinging too early and preventing my right arm lagging. Of course, you may disagree that I discovered that.

But a while ago I also noticed that basically it is impossible to swing a gripped shaft quickly / I mean as quickly as with your right hand, for right handers, I mean/  unless you move your hips correclty, and unless you unhinge correctly. So I maintain that a gripped shaft can be an excellent teacher, that reveals taht you are either not doing the hip rotation correctly / as it slows down this gripped shaft significantly/ or that you are unhigning too early, which also slows down the swing significantly. Or both. You just cannot swing this gripped shaft quickly enough unless you move hips correctly and unhinge correctly. So I think this is a great check for every beginner. Basically if you practice swings with this gripped shaft, it will teach you to rotate hips and create lag. Sorry, I cannot help it but I can see it clearly with my gripped shaft. Too bad nobody is willing to give it a try and swing any kind of light stick wihout moving hips correctly or without hinging correclty.  You would see I am right and this is no rocket science. Why this doesn't seem to work with a real club / a real club is heavy enough to hide both incorrect hip movement  and incorrect unhinging. I have been swinging a club for a year and a half, without moving hips correctly or without enough lag  and it only shows in terms of relative slower swing. With this gripped shaft immediately you see you are making a huge mistake, either with hips or unhinging or both. So it is a great check and teaching device, and I am sure it will show with real clubs and balls, when I practice this gripped shaft for a long time enough to make the habit of better hip movement and correct unhigning a part of my swing.

[billchao]

OK. I will try to say it differently. I think I have discovered that a gripped shaft / being much lighter than a real golf club / can reveal some big mistakes in one's swing.

Ok, here's the problem with your assessment: a gripped shaft is not a golf club. Any swing made with a gripped shaft is going to be different than one made with a golf club simply due to the weight difference. Your body reacts differently to different amounts of force exerted on it. You may have better mechanics with a gripped shaft; I won't argue that because I haven't seen your swing. The point is that doesn't really mean anything when it comes to a real swing. As an example, my 3 year old son can swing his plastic golf clubs like a champ. When he swings a real junior wedge, the club swings him, because it's too heavy. The other thing is, your mechanics on a practice swing, even with a real club, is not an indication of your mechanics when you swing at a real golf ball. This one trips people up all the time. They always think, "I made such a smooth practice swing, how come I mess up on the real swing?" It's because of the ball. On a practice swing, swing plane doesn't really matter because you're not trying to hit an object on the ground. This allows you to just swing the club on whatever arc it wants to be on. Once the ball is in the picture, you're confined to a certain plane and you make whatever compensations are required to hit it. My only real advice to you is, trust the experts. If you want some real advice for your swing, start a swing thread.

[Abu3baid]

Ok, here's the problem with your assessment: a gripped shaft is not a golf club. Any swing made with a gripped shaft is going to be different than one made with a golf club simply due to the weight difference. Your body reacts differently to different amounts of force exerted on it. You may have better mechanics with a gripped shaft; I won't argue that because I haven't seen your swing. The point is that doesn't really mean anything when it comes to a real swing. As an example, my 3 year old son can swing his plastic golf clubs like a champ. When he swings a real junior wedge, the club swings him, because it's too heavy. The other thing is, your mechanics on a practice swing, even with a real club, is not an indication of your mechanics when you swing at a real golf ball. This one trips people up all the time. They always think, "I made such a smooth practice swing, how come I mess up on the real swing?" It's because of the ball. On a practice swing, swing plane doesn't really matter because you're not trying to hit an object on the ground. This allows you to just swing the club on whatever arc it wants to be on. Once th e ball is in the picture, you're confined to a certain plane and you make whatever compensations are required to hit it. My only real advice to you is, trust the experts. If you want some real advice for your swing, start a swing thread.

Nice explanation.. First time I have read this explanation of the difference between practice and real swing, but it makes sense! Nice.

[ryunin]

Ok, here's the problem with your assessment: a gripped shaft is not a golf club.

Any swing made with a gripped shaft is going to be different than one made with a golf club simply due to the weight difference. Your body reacts differently to different amounts of force exerted on it. You may have better mechanics with a gripped shaft; I won't argue that because I haven't seen your swing. The point is that doesn't really mean anything when it comes to a real swing.

As an example, my 3 year old son can swing his plastic golf clubs like a champ. When he swings a real junior wedge, the club swings him, because it's too heavy.

The other thing is, your mechanics on a practice swing, even with a real club, is not an indication of your mechanics when you swing at a real golf ball. This one trips people up all the time. They always think, "I made such a smooth practice swing, how come I mess up on the real swing?"

It's because of the ball. On a practice swing, swing plane doesn't really matter because you're not trying to hit an object on the ground. This allows you to just swing the club on whatever arc it wants to be on. Once the ball is in the picture, you're confined to a certain plane and you make whatever compensations are required to hit it.

My only real advice to you is, trust the experts. If you want some real advice for your swing, start a swing thread.

Thank you for your   patient explanation, billchao. It makes sense what you are writing, but then you may have some wrong assumpions, too. I am not an expert, of course, just trying to use my logic and what I see happening. I agree that a real golf club, as it has some swingweight, will steer somehow, weighted club even more so, and effect the way you swing, and it will do different things to the swing than a gripped shaft. No problem here. I also agree that a practice swing is not a swing at a ball. No problem here, either. But even if someone will show you a swing without anything in their hands, you can see a mistake if you know something about a golf swing. And if one is not able to swing correctly without a golf club, slowly, step by step, how can we expect that person to be able to swing correctly with a golf club and hitting a ball. So I assume that if one is not able to swing a gripped shaft properly, with the right movement of the body, how can we expect that person to swing a golf club properly. Then you could argue that a golf club will help the person to swing better / yes, but that's my point. It will hide a mistake that one cannot hide with a gripped shaft, as the gripped shaft will not help the person to steer everything right. The person with a gripped shaft has to know how to move, otherwise the swing will get messed up very easily and there we come to my original problem - swing will be relatively slow and will feel awkward. So again, if you cannot swing a stick nicely, smoothly and with the right tempo and body movement, you will have all kinds of problems with a real club. But I am not saying that if you can swing a gripped shaft perfectly, it will mean you will swing a real club perfectly, and hitting balls flush. Far from that, I am just saying that  a gripped shaft can reveal problems ( not prove somebody's correct golf swing ) to someone who can more or less swing and hit balls in real life.

[iacas]

Uhhhhhmmmmm. Let's see your swing. This is really going nowhere fast. We'd love to help, but this isn't gonna do that. Practice swings are different than real swings. Without a real club even less so. And because a practice swing is only barely related, this swinging sticks idea is almost not related at all.

[billchao]

But even if someone will show you a swing without anything in their hands, you can see a mistake if you know something about a golf swing. And if one is not able to swing correctly without a golf club, slowly, step by step, how can we expect that person to be able to swing correctly with a golf club and hitting a ball. So I assume that if one is not able to swing a gripped shaft properly, with the right movement of the body, how can we expect that person to swing a golf club properly.

The mechanics are different in each scenario. My swing without a club in my hands (which I do daily; it's my primary method for changing my swing) is dramatically different than my swing while hitting a club. I have to make some really funky looking swings without a club in order to get those feels translate to a good swing while hitting a ball. Even my practice swings are greatly exaggerated. The goal is to make good swings while hitting a golf ball, not good swings without one, because the practice swing is not the same as a real swing.

Then you could argue that a golf club will help the person to swing better / yes, but that's my point. It will hide a mistake that one cannot hide with a gripped shaft, as the gripped shaft will not help the person to steer everything right.

I have never met a person who has ever told me that a golf club will help steer the swing better. My point was the complete opposite; once you put a ball on the ground and a club in your hands, you have to hit the ball to get it to go anywhere, which means the ball has to be on your swing arc somewhere. Because most people do not have an optimal swing, they have to make all sorts of compensations to get the two to match.

The person with a gripped shaft has to know how to move, otherwise the swing will get messed up very easily and there we come to my original problem - swing will be relatively slow and will feel awkward. So again, if you cannot swing a stick nicely, smoothly and with the right tempo and body movement, you will have all kinds of problems with a real club. But I am not saying that if you can swing a gripped shaft perfectly, it will mean you will swing a real club perfectly, and hitting balls flush.

That's the problem: you can practice all day learning to swing a gripped shaft perfectly, and it might not do you any good when it comes to the real thing. Why even bother with that then? Just practice the right way to begin with.

[ryunin]

The mechanics are different in each scenario. My swing without a club in my hands (which I do daily; it's my primary method for changing my swing) is dramatically different than my swing while hitting a club. I have to make some really funky looking swings without a club in order to get those feels translate to a good swing while hitting a ball. Even my practice swings are greatly exaggerated. The goal is to make good swings while hitting a golf ball, not good swings without one, because the practice swing is not the same as a real swing.

I have never met a person who has ever told me that a golf club will help steer the swing better. My point was the complete opposite; once you put a ball on the ground and a club in your hands, you have to hit the ball to get it to go anywhere, which means the ball has to be on your swing arc somewhere. Because most people do not have an optimal swing, they have to make all sorts of compensations to get the two to match.

That's the problem: you can practice all day learning to swing a gripped shaft perfectly, and it might not do you any good when it comes to the real thing. Why even bother with that then? Just practice the right way to begin with.

All I am saying is that a gripped shaft can reveal mistakes. What you are saying has the same logic like saying drills are useless, or something like smashing bag to practice hitting down is nothing like hitting a real golf ball. It is the same logic like saying practicing at the range is no use as playing a round is something else. Of course, these are different things, but the question is there are some things that are common. So if I practice hitting a smash bag, it won't help me learn to hit down to the ball. If I practice rotating my hips properly using a shaft, it won't make any difference to my real swing. This is not about knowing a golf swing, which you know much much better than I do, this is about whehter certain drill or practice or training aid  can reveal and fix mistakes or not. Plus in this thread I am not looking to find a solution to my bad swing, just discussing the benefits of practicing with a shaft.

[iacas]

Plus in this thread I am not looking to find a solution to my bad swing, just discussing the benefits of practicing with a shaft.

I haven't actually seen where you've discussed any benefits. I don't see any. Drills are at least hit with golf clubs and stuff most of the time.

[ryunin]

I think I  have discovered a fault with my swing thanks to a gripped shaft - but I could be wrong, OK. If I am not, that would be a great benefit this gripped shaft gave me. Also, I admit it is not a good idea to practice and try to improve a swing swinging a gripped shaft regularly. But I never said that I was interested in prolonged full swing practice with this gripped shaft, only suggested that it can reveal problems in one's swing. I can  imagine it can do more harm than good to practice full swings on the daily basis with this light shaft. It seems to be sometimes used for practicing faster swing - not my idea, I have found such opinions somewhere else.

[iacas]

I think I  have discovered a fault with my swing thanks to a gripped shaft - but I could be wrong, OK. If I am not, that would be a great benefit this gripped shaft gave me. Also, I admit it is not a good idea to practice and try to improve a swing swinging a gripped shaft regularly. But I never said that I was interested in prolonged full swing practice with this gripped shaft, only suggested that it can reveal problems in one's swing. I can  imagine it can do more harm than good to practice full swings on the daily basis with this light shaft. It seems to be sometimes used for practicing faster swing - not my idea, I have found such opinions somewhere else.

I disagree. You've found nothing you couldn't have found swinging a regular club at a ball and MAY have wasted your time finding something that's irrelevant.

[ryunin]

I disagree. You've found nothing you couldn't have found swinging a regular club at a ball and MAY have wasted your time finding something that's irrelevant.

So you are saying that if somebody who has played golf for a year has a problem swinging a gripped shaft says nothing about their swing, even if a good golfer has no problem swinging the gripped shaft. I don't think you guys who are good at golf would have a problem swinging a gripped shaft, losing speed with it as opposed to swinging it with your dominant hand. I can see clearly that if I don't move the body correctly, I cannot swing the gripped shaft freely. I would like to see a really good golfer who cannot swing a gripped shaft freely and naturaly with both hands.

[ryunin]

ha, I am not the only one who thinks a gripped shaft can be used for practicing one's swing / and I could definitely not swing like this guy if I hadn't found out about my fault with the gripped shaft

here we go:

[iacas]

So you are saying that if somebody who has played golf for a year has a problem swinging a gripped shaft says nothing about their swing, even if a good golfer has no problem swinging the gripped shaft. I don't think you guys who are good at golf would have a problem swinging a gripped shaft, losing speed with it as opposed to swinging it with your dominant hand. I can see clearly that if I don't move the body correctly, I cannot swing the gripped shaft freely. I would like to see a really good golfer who cannot swing a gripped shaft freely and naturaly with both hands.

I feel I've been clear in what I've said. Practice swings stink. They're worth next to zero. This gripped shaft stuff matters much less.