The Tiger Woods Retirement Thread

[saevel25]

The younger Woods was a skinny guy with his clothes hanging off his body where the current Woods is a bulked up guy with huge shoulders and chest. Of course photo comparisons of McGuire, Sosa, and Bonds would have looked the same.

Would have, or have looked the same? Sounds like you are just speculating with no evidence. Also, it is well known that a person bulks up the quickest if they never worked out before. Guys form highschool to college in football can gain 10-15 lbs of muscle in their first year in the football program. All with a controlled program of eating and working out. After the first year that amount of muscle gain decreases substantially to the point about 4 years out gains per year can only be about a few pounds. So pointing out that Woods got a lot of muscle in a few years is clearly acceptable by typical weight lifting standards, especially someone who really works at it. Tiger woods became a fitness fanatic to gain that competitive edge. [quote name="Saintsmania" url="/t/79927/the-tiger-woods-retirement-thread/126#post_1104662"] Woods is not yet 40 years old so middle age spread has not yet set in. So he should look pretty much the same as his metabolism would have slowed very little. I don't know how much weight he has gained but I'd think 20-25 pounds would be close. [/quote] Don't try to pin average middle age trends on Tiger. Unlike a lot of people who have desk jobs and don't work out he has been a constant athlete the majority of his life. His metabolism will slow down but nearly to the degree of a person who sits around all day long. Again, he gained most of that muscle with in the first few years on tour, then stayed pretty constant. You also have to take into consideration the type of clothing he wears as well. He went from loose fitting cloths (2000) to more form fitting cloths (2005+). This would show off more muscles. [quote name="Saintsmania" url="/t/79927/the-tiger-woods-retirement-thread/126#post_1104682"] Hey, it's just my opinion---and it differs from yours. But the fact is that Woods has gained in excess of 30 pounds. Check out the internet articles confirming this. Have a nice day! [/quote] Yea he went from a scrawny kid to an athlete. That doesn't mean he took steroids. It happens all the time. Its called getting into shape. Not taking steroids like the big time cheaters in baseball.

[RussUK]

According to a report on Eurosport he plans to take an "indefinite" break from golf until he thinks his game is tournament ready.

In his words he states:

"I enter a tournament to compete at the highest level. When I think I'm ready, I'll be back."

"I do, however, expect to be playing again very soon."

There has to be a point when, after so many injuries, you have to decide if its all worth it. Its not like he's short of a penny or two

[Saintsmania]

Thanks for your opinion.

[David in FL]

According to a report on Eurosport he plans to take an "indefinite" break from golf until he thinks his game is tournament ready. In his words he states:

"I enter a tournament to compete at the highest level. When I think I'm ready, I'll be back."

"I do, however, expect to be playing again very soon."

There has to be a point when, after so many injuries, you have to decide if its all worth it. Its not like he's short of a penny or two

Now it gets interesting. If he "waits until he feels he's tournament ready", then plays like crap/misses the cut, whatever, I think there's a 50/50 chance that he pulls the plug....

[newtogolf]

Now it gets interesting. If he "waits until he feels he's tournament ready", then plays like crap/misses the cut, whatever, I think there's a 50/50 chance that he pulls the plug....

I think you're close to right.  If he was really focused on playing the best golf he could, he would forego taking trips to watch Vonn ski and put the time in on practice.

100% speculation, he's trying to be a professional golfer on what appears to be a part-time basis.  He might have been able to get away with it 10 years ago but the combination of injuries and swing changes he's experienced the last five years requires he focus even more than he used to but he doesn't seem to have the same intensity he did in the past.

[Pretzel]

Hey, it's just my opinion---and it differs from yours. But the fact is that Woods has gained in excess of 30 pounds. Check out the internet articles confirming this. Have a nice day!

I gained 30 pounds over the winter last year when I filled out from being a bean pole. Guess I better go turn myself in to the high school athletics people if that means I took steroids...

[Saintsmania]

Chuckle!

If you get a chance to look at the internet look at Woods' photos in 2000 when he was still pretty skinny.

Then go forward to 2014 when Woods looked like he had gained tons of weight, especially around the neck, shoulders, and chest and a loss of hair.

So it was not like some high school kid suddenly gaining weight after he graduated.

Of course there is no way of actually knowing Woods' weight at any age as the PGA Tour only goes by what the players tell them.

[saevel25]

Chuckle!

If you get a chance to look at the internet look at Woods' photos in 2000 when he was still pretty skinny.

Then go forward to 2014 when Woods looked like he had gained tons of weight, especially around the neck, shoulders, and chest and a loss of hair.

So it was not like some high school kid suddenly gaining weight after he graduated.

Of course there is no way of actually knowing Woods' weight at any age as the PGA Tour only goes by what the players tell them.

You are wrong in your exaggeration of his size increase.

Lets get back on topic now. This is a Tiger Woods Retirement thread, not Tiger Woods steroids thread.

[dkolo]

Chuckle! If you get a chance to look at the internet look at Woods' photos in 2000 when he was still pretty skinny. Then go forward to 2014 when Woods looked like he had gained tons of weight, especially around the neck, shoulders, and chest and a loss of hair. So it was not like some high school kid suddenly gaining weight after he graduated. Of course there is no way of actually knowing Woods' weight at any age as the PGA Tour only goes by what the players tell them.

I had all of those things happen to me over the last 14 years, hair loss included. Unless there's steroids in Coke Zero, I'm clean. Working out and growing into your body has that effect. Since baseball keeps coming up, I'll add that I n amateur baseball scouting, one talks about "projectability" with the kids: how much you think they have room to grow and put on muscle / weight that will lead to improved physical tools. Young Tiger had a ton of projectability. With proper support (like Nike, the biggest fitness brand in the world), he grew into that projection. Making serious accusations of steroid use without concrete proof is baseless speculation that shouldn't be defended as being mere "opinion."

[Gunther]

You are wrong in your exaggeration of his size increase.  :offtopic: Lets get back on topic now. This is a Tiger Woods Retirement thread, not Tiger Woods steroids thread.

Well, it could be argued that he's being forced into retirement because of chronic injuries directly related to PEDs. ;) I'm with most here, I wouldn't be shocked to learn that he's used them, in fact, I probably lean towards him using them but not due to his size. More about his connection to Galea, his sustained greatness, the fact that so many others did (some quite surprising like Raffy Palmeiro who always looked like your skinny next door neighbor), and lastly, perhaps most compelling, his battle with injuries over the past few years.

[saevel25]

Well, it could be argued that he's being forced into retirement because of chronic injuries directly related to PEDs. ;)

I'm with most here, I wouldn't be shocked to learn that he's used them, in fact, I probably lean towards him using them but not due to his size. More about his connection to Galea, his sustained greatness, the fact that so many others did (some quite surprising like Raffy Palmeiro who always looked like your skinny next door neighbor), and lastly, perhaps most compelling, his battle with injuries over the past few years.

True, but he's making claims about excessive steroid use to the point he matches the muscle growth of some of the blatant users in the MLB.

If he used steroids it is in the manor of Lance Armstrong who used it to maintain a high level of competition to help against wear and tear. In that regard I doubt PED use caused his injuries. In most cases I thought PED uses allowed players to heal faster and maintain health longer.

[3putter]

Chuckle!

If you get a chance to look at the internet look at Woods' photos in 2000 when he was still pretty skinny.

Then go forward to 2014 when Woods looked like he had gained tons of weight, especially around the neck, shoulders, and chest and a loss of hair.

So it was not like some high school kid suddenly gaining weight after he graduated.

Of course there is no way of actually knowing Woods' weight at any age as the PGA Tour only goes by what the players tell them.

Please feel free to post such pix of him gaining weight around the neck and shoulder area, one that's somehow not proportional with putting on weight (muscle) in general.

[GolfLug]

I noticed a kind off round-house high right hook finish on some of his drives which he lost right. IMO arms getting away (flinging the arms?) to get more speed; which he apparently is getting. I think that is a recipe for back twisting and severe strain. Compare that to lets say Rory's impact and club exit which has arms closer to the body. There are 50,000 videos of both on you tube so won't post them here.

I think at some point it he will fix and play at a decent level. Maybe my vision is limited in stringing together recent happenings and extrapolating to future but I don't get all this retirement talk at all. Too young at 39 physically (even if a biological age of 50 according to some). As somebody pointed out here already, retire and do what? Move dirt? I can see that at 60 but not yet.

Questions about him ever getting to his 2000 level dominance very legit, but retirement is a stretch.

[skydog]

If he used steroids it is in the manor of Lance Armstrong who used it to maintain a high level of competition to help against wear and tear. In that regard I doubt PED use caused his injuries. In most cases I thought PED uses allowed players to heal faster and maintain health longer.

Oh, well if he just did it to prevent wear and tear then what's all this fuss about . Yes Tiger didn't look like barry bonds but that doesn't mean he didn't use (see: Armstrong, Lance). And yes, the fact that he bulked up a lot from 2000-2008 doesn't mean he did use. Most answers in life are not assured- all we can do is make informed judgments, especially when it comes to PEDs when it's been shown that time and time again, athletes will go to all possible measures to protect their careers and legacy. I personally think it's more likely than not that Tiger used based on his connection with Galea, A Rod, etc. and the rate at which his body has deteriorated once the PGA started testing for some of these things. Am I sure? No, but confident enough that it changes the way I think about TW and his legacy.

Yes, there is a lesson in there somewhere. Is it better to burn out than fade away? Skydog, do you think if somebody had a chance to control his legacy by having an excuse for not being able to perform, they would? Would some people carry on for years as pack fodder after once being great, or would they instead bow out due to alleged injuries such as the dreaded glute deactivation that are out of their control? How would the public view these two different scenarios? How would the ego of the hero react in either scenario?

Fair analogy to my boy Duane, Chris. IMO, in his short career he reached the pinnacle of his craft and was the GOAT, but as a shooting star it's hard to fully judge how much that has hurt or helped his legacy. Is longevity or short-lived domination more remembered and revered? It can go both ways. If the Beatles and the Rolling Stones both hung it up in 1970, I'm guessing most everyone would consider the Beatles the greatest rock band of all time. BUT, playing for another 40+ years, many would now argue that the RSs longevity has propelled them to the top. Same arguments can be made for or against Tiger; (any PED use aside) many would argue that his domination in the early 2000s is unmatched in history and therefore puts him as the GOAT. And if he had retired after Torrey Pines in 2008, I might agree. But overtime longevity can outweigh short lived greatness as others (including myself) would argue that Jack's record and 25 year long  major winning career is unmatched and solidify him as the GOAT. I guess it all depends on what 'greatness' means to you.

[Spitfisher]

You guys that are insisting on weight gain with steroids, are missing it entirely, that's old news, old assumptions and old drugs. It's entirely different now. It's about recovery, extended training, endurance, enhancing fast twitch muscle groups. ( explosiveness) They are designer drugs now not the crap tag the East Germans used during the Olympics. However back on topic, him stepping away now due to poor play and waiting it out. he's basically throwing all his chips into the center of the table. If he comes back say at the open championship or later PGA championship and he pukes on himself again. I could see him walking away from the poker table

[Deryck Griffith]

Now it gets interesting. If he "waits until he feels he's tournament ready", then plays like crap/misses the cut, whatever, I think there's a 50/50 chance that he pulls the plug....

I'm with you on this...I think he'll give it several chances in 2015 when he's ready to come back but if in those several chances throughout 2015 he isn't progressing, at all, I'll definitely take your 50/50.

[tmac20]

Chuckle! If you get a chance to look at the internet look at Woods' photos in 2000 when he was still pretty skinny. Then go forward to 2014 when Woods looked like he had gained tons of weight, especially around the neck, shoulders, and chest and a loss of hair. So it was not like some high school kid suddenly gaining weight after he graduated. Of course there is no way of actually knowing Woods' weight at any age as the PGA Tour only goes by what the players tell them.

That's a terrible way to prove your point... "If you look at him in 2000, then look at him 14 years later , he gained muscle mass therefore he must have used PED's." Do you realize how ridiculous that sounds?

[saevel25]

Oh, well if he just did it to prevent wear and tear then what's all this fuss about .

That wasn't my intent. I was making the point that a person doesn't have to look HUGE to have taken steroids. The fact is that Tiger's gain in muscle mass isn't nearly as big as someone like Barry Bonds. Tiger looked like he naturally gained muscle mass over the years. If he continued to work out he would have gained a few pounds a year after his first 2-3 years of working out. This matches his body size increase from 1997 to 2000, and then from 2000-2014.

If Tiger used PED's, and since injuries is a natural part of sports, it is a cheating of they are illegal under the rules by the PGA Tour and USGA.