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Pete's Programme (Single Digit to Tour Player)


Nosevi
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The thread you should be posting in more than you do is over here:

Erik J. Barzeski —  I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. 🏌🏼‍♂️
Director of Instruction Golf Evolution • Owner, The Sand Trap .com • AuthorLowest Score Wins
Golf Digest "Best Young Teachers in America" 2016-17 & "Best in State" 2017-20 • WNY Section PGA Teacher of the Year 2019 :edel: :true_linkswear:

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10 minutes ago, iacas said:

The thread you should be posting in more than you do is over here:

Hi Erik :-) 

You're probably right and coming into the winter my focus will very much be switching back towards long game. Over the last couple of months my focus has been a little more around the green than it was previously simply because I know the time is probably coming when I'll be looking almost exclusively at my full swing when the winter hits and I'm forced inside. For the last few weeks I've been trying to make the most of what time I have before then to work mostly on my chipping, short pitching, bunker play and putting. I've still worked a bit on my long game but the ratio of long game to short game has been out of kilter to where it should be simply because I'm trying to look ahead and see my training allocation and division between the two areas in terms of the next few months rather than on a day to day or week to week basis.

Pete Iveson

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On 11/8/2015, 3:35:10, ZappyAd said:

I think keep on playing from the same tees and just treat the rounds as getting more practice from hitting out of the rough and with a longer approach.  However good you get you are always going to end up short or in the rough at some point so might as well learn to love it!  And those type of conditions are exactly the ones you can't simulate on the mat at home.

As for stats do you record course conditions when you play in the summer and reflect that in your reports? I'm thinking about if it is a windy day or if it is raining (a rare event in summer I know).  Just strikes me that the more analysis one does the more important it might be to capture a wider range of data.  Unless you are playing very similar conditions each time maybe there is some bias in your numbers coming from 'windy' rounds that you are assigning to something else.  Similar to your up and down example maybe an effect is coming from a chunk of rounds where it was windy rather than an overall issue with club x.

I would kind of agree with this. If you are tracking a curve over time the smaller amount of winter data shouldn't bump the average too terribly. The seasonal effect should show up as a slight bump to a multi-year curve that shows a general progress trend.

One way to look at the winter conditions is automatic light rough practice from a fairway hit. Extra challenge for long iron accuracy. That should be offset a bit with the good lies you will have on your indoor simulator.

Kevin

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12 hours ago, natureboy said:

I would kind of agree with this. If you are tracking a curve over time the smaller amount of winter data shouldn't bump the average too terribly. The seasonal effect should show up as a slight bump to a multi-year curve that shows a general progress trend.

One way to look at the winter conditions is automatic light rough practice from a fairway hit. Extra challenge for long iron accuracy. That should be offset a bit with the good lies you will have on your indoor simulator.

Yep, I won't worry too much if performance on the course appears to stall a bit due to conditions, it's still valuable practice to get out there.

Regarding the sim, I do collect performance on there (ie ball striking etc) but it's not mixed in with performance on the course, it's kept completely separate. I use the sim as a tool for training in addition to training outside, never as a substitute. If for instance I want to work on hitting a lower ball flight for into the wind perhaps, I'll work on it in the 'sterile' environment of the sim first where the only variable is how I swing the club and only once I'm comfortable with it there will I then take it out and practice it on the course. Doing it inside first means that any variation I see in ball flight is down to me rather than say a gust of wind durring that shot so it stops me 'correcting' on what was actually a well struck shot that was just effected by outside factors. The sim is a training aid and not a substitute and so stats collected in there are never mixed with those recorded in the 'real world'. 

So yes, I'll get plenty of practice hitting from a good lie inside but the stats on the course will still suffer from (or be effected by) always hitting from further away and from a 'shaggy' fairway. The good thing about a strokes gained approach though is that only the slight difference in the lie should effect my approach play scores, the fact I'm not driving it nearly as fat should only effect my driving strokes lost and so the overall.

Pete Iveson

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12 minutes ago, Nosevi said:

Yep, I won't worry too much if performance on the course appears to stall a bit due to conditions, it's still valuable practice to get out there.

Regarding the sim, I do collect performance on there (ie ball striking etc) but it's not mixed in with performance on the course, it's kept completely separate. I use the sim as a tool for training in addition to training outside, never as a substitute. If for instance I want to work on hitting a lower ball flight for into the wind perhaps, I'll work on it in the 'sterile' environment of the sim first where the only variable is how I swing the club and only once I'm comfortable with it there will I then take it out and practice it on the course. Doing it inside first means that any variation I see in ball flight is down to me rather than say a gust of wind durring that shot so it stops me 'correcting' on what was actually a well struck shot that was just effected by outside factors. The sim is a training aid and not a substitute and so stats collected in there are never mixed with those recorded in the 'real world'. 

So yes, I'll get plenty of practice hitting from a good lie inside but the stats on the course will still suffer from (or be effected by) always hitting from further away and from a 'shaggy' fairway. The good thing about a strokes gained approach though is that only the slight difference in the lie should effect my approach play scores, the fact I'm not driving it nearly as fat should only effect my driving strokes lost and so the overall.

I just meant that the gnarlier fairway lies will help offset the clean simulator lies in terms of keeping your skills sharp. Did not expect you would mix simulator and on-course stats.

Kevin

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8 hours ago, natureboy said:

I just meant that the gnarlier fairway lies will help offset the clean simulator lies in terms of keeping your skills sharp. Did not expect you would mix simulator and on-course stats.

Got it :-) 

Pete Iveson

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@Nosevi, Pete, this is a brilliant thread and I am following it avidly now.  My 2 cents is the winter period is perfect for getting your full swing grooved on the simulator.  Keep at it and hopefully come spring, you will have a perfect and repeatable long swing, but admittedly no short game practice, which for me can and should be practiced out on the course.  Practicing that on a mat is more about grooving a swing.

I have to ask with the grass you have around your house whether you have ever tried hitting those soft plastic balls, or whether you think the mat and simulator is better than hitting on actual turf.

Look forward to following you when you turn pro.

What's in the bag

  • Taylor Made r5 dual Draw 9.5* (stiff)
  • Cobra Baffler 4H (stiff)
  • Taylor Made RAC OS 6-9,P,S (regular)
  • Golden Bear LD5.0 60* (regular)
  • Aidia Z-009 Putter
  • Inesis Soft 500 golf ball
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47 minutes ago, pganapathy said:

@Nosevi, Pete, this is a brilliant thread and I am following it avidly now.  My 2 cents is the winter period is perfect for getting your full swing grooved on the simulator.  Keep at it and hopefully come spring, you will have a perfect and repeatable long swing, but admittedly no short game practice, which for me can and should be practiced out on the course.  Practicing that on a mat is more about grooving a swing.

I have to ask with the grass you have around your house whether you have ever tried hitting those soft plastic balls, or whether you think the mat and simulator is better than hitting on actual turf.

Look forward to following you when you turn pro.

Hi there. Regarding following me when I turn pro, I've got an awfully long way to go yet. We'll just have to see how far I can take it.

The sim is a great tool for both grooving and improving your swing and I will definitely be using it a lot over the winter. You can do things on it that you can't do as well out in the elements such as make minor adjustments to your swing, see it on high speed video and see the resultant ball flight on the same video. When grooving a swing you know if you swing the same the ball flies exactly the same, there are no external factors effecting it. It's a great tool ...... but it isn't a substitute for hitting off grass. My course has a grass driving range that you can use your own balls on when it's quiet so I'll use that as much as I can between sim sessions until the ground freezes. One of the good things about the GC2 is it's very mobile so I can be hitting in the sim and if I want to check something off grass just unplug it and go hit a few balls off the turf while recording how I strike them on the ipad. I think the combo of using the GC2 both indoors and out is probably better than hitting limited flight balls outside for what I'm trying to do although I'm sure they have a place and using them is undoubtedly better than not practising at all.

I agree about short game practice and I often practice it out on the course myself. While I really need to switch focus to putting (which I've really left till last to get stuck into) I've worked really hard at chipping, pitching and bunker play around the practice green and out on the course and short game has actually become my strongest area strokes gained/lost. I'll do a post on it soon but essentially I always practice with a single ball, every chip or pitch is from a different location and to a different target. That seems to be helping me judge distance pretty well.

Pete Iveson

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@Nosevi, Pete, thanks for the feedback.  Yes, turning pro may well take a few years to possibly never, but I choose to be optimistic and say you can and will do it and I will follow you then.

This may well be a topic for another thread, but let me bring it up anyway.  I assume you got club fitted by Ping approximately a year ago when you first started out with this experiment.  Since then, your clubhead speed has definitely increased and there have been some changes to your swing.  Has this necessitated a change in clubs as the swing plane of irons may have changed and does this mean your clubs need to be flatter or more upright (I know Ping use a colour coded dot system to denote flat and upright clubs) or shafts (different flex, kick point).  If not, how do you know that the clubs you are using are best suited for your game at present and how do you know that as you keep improving, particularly with regards to getting stronger and swinger faster, that your shaft is ideal for your new and improved swing.  I agree that once your swing improvements plateau, as it seems to be for most pro's who tinker in small percentages to improve it, changing clubs may not be necessary, but with the rapid improvement you are going through, I would believe getting fitted every three to six months may be necessary unless you are not changing swing plane and club head speed by more than 1 to 2 degrees and 1 to 2 mph.

The other topic of fitting is the golf ball.  I assume you are using a tour ball like the ProV1 or ProV1x.  How do you know that this the ball best suited to your current swing.  There are definitely other balls out there that may well help your specific swing better.  Also, as your game improves, would it still suit your game best.

I noticed a few posts ago you mentioned that a pro who practices with you was looking at hitting balls with less spin into the greens (he was getting too much backspin) and I cannot help but wonder if hitting a lesser spinning ball (for example titleist nxt over titleist proV for example), may not be a better solution.  Just my 2 cents here.

What's in the bag

  • Taylor Made r5 dual Draw 9.5* (stiff)
  • Cobra Baffler 4H (stiff)
  • Taylor Made RAC OS 6-9,P,S (regular)
  • Golden Bear LD5.0 60* (regular)
  • Aidia Z-009 Putter
  • Inesis Soft 500 golf ball
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Hi Pete,

Can you zip over to the Kisakallio conference (http://thedanplan.com/more-on-kisakallio-and-some-recently-found-interviews/)?:

Quote

In addition to all of that, I will be arriving a few days early and will have the opportunity to talk, along with Finnish golf coaches Henri Salonen and Jukka Hokka.  Both of them are covering topics on how to train for golf and strength through the winter.

Interested to hear about what he posts about that, in particular, to see if there's anything that is not common sense that you are not already doing.

My Swing


Driver: :ping: G30, Irons: :tmade: Burner 2.0, Putter: :cleveland:, Balls: :snell:

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4 hours ago, pganapathy said:

@Nosevi, Pete, thanks for the feedback.  Yes, turning pro may well take a few years to possibly never, but I choose to be optimistic and say you can and will do it and I will follow you then.

This may well be a topic for another thread, but let me bring it up anyway.  I assume you got club fitted by Ping approximately a year ago when you first started out with this experiment.  Since then, your clubhead speed has definitely increased and there have been some changes to your swing.  Has this necessitated a change in clubs as the swing plane of irons may have changed and does this mean your clubs need to be flatter or more upright (I know Ping use a colour coded dot system to denote flat and upright clubs) or shafts (different flex, kick point).  If not, how do you know that the clubs you are using are best suited for your game at present and how do you know that as you keep improving, particularly with regards to getting stronger and swinger faster, that your shaft is ideal for your new and improved swing.  I agree that once your swing improvements plateau, as it seems to be for most pro's who tinker in small percentages to improve it, changing clubs may not be necessary, but with the rapid improvement you are going through, I would believe getting fitted every three to six months may be necessary unless you are not changing swing plane and club head speed by more than 1 to 2 degrees and 1 to 2 mph.

The other topic of fitting is the golf ball.  I assume you are using a tour ball like the ProV1 or ProV1x.  How do you know that this the ball best suited to your current swing.  There are definitely other balls out there that may well help your specific swing better.  Also, as your game improves, would it still suit your game best.

I noticed a few posts ago you mentioned that a pro who practices with you was looking at hitting balls with less spin into the greens (he was getting too much backspin) and I cannot help but wonder if hitting a lesser spinning ball (for example titleist nxt over titleist proV for example), may not be a better solution.  Just my 2 cents here.

Hi. First looking at clubs I made an assumption when I started that I would get stronger, have a faster swing speed and require stiffer shafts as I go along so at my initial fitting I basically 'over-spec'd' the shafts to be about as stiff as I could cope with. I'm using Project X 6.5s across the board and although I may eventually need stiffer, they may well do me fine. They're actually the shafts Rory had before he recently moved up to Project X 7.0 so that should give an idea of the sort of swing speed the 6.5s can cope with. At first they were a bit too stiff but within 6 months or so I had 'grown into' them. Loft and lie wise, we have the UK's main Ping fitting centre just down the road from me so it's no problem to pop over there and get the lofts and lies checked. In fact you've made a good point and I may as well do this some time over the winter.

Balls wise I use ProV1x. I've tested several balls myself on the GC2 and as it measures spin etc directly it's a really goid bit of kit for doing this. Although ProV1 and ProV1x aren't the cheapest option out there I actually buy either x-outs or ProV1x PRACTICE balls to use for practice which keeps the cost down. They are exactly the same as the standard ProV1x but with minor cosmetic blemishes (which I've yet to spot) in the printing. My 'ball draw' in the sim, ProV1s are there for Jess, the rest of us all use ProV1x:

image.thumb.jpeg.626879d56ecadeaf590224e

The pro who I was speaking about was Brian Casey, the guy who just shot 24 under par in European Tour Q School. The thing is while you want to control spin from the fairway if the greens are soft, you want spin if you're around the green or perhaps coming out of the rough; often it's a balancing act and you may sacrifice distance off the tee in order to gain control around the green - I do the oposite to this as I get more distance from a ProV1x than a ProV1 but less spin around the green. Anyway, Brian wanted to keep using the ProV1x but on really soft greens be able to get at flags towards the back of the green rather than landing it near the flag only to have the ball zip away from it as he found was happening in the Russian Open. He used the kit I've got to practice basically clubbing up but choking down a bit so he could hit a 7 the distance he normally hits an 8, an 8 the distance he hits a 9 etc. With the GC2 he could monitor the spin rates and decent angles and make a good estimation of how the ball would react. We actually also set the sim to 'soft' to see how much 'zip' he could take off the shots.

3 hours ago, RandallT said:

Hi Pete,

Can you zip over to the Kisakallio conference (http://thedanplan.com/more-on-kisakallio-and-some-recently-found-interviews/)?:

Interested to hear about what he posts about that, in particular, to see if there's anything that is not common sense that you are not already doing.

Hi Randy. I'll see what he posts but with the indoor setup I've got I think I'm a tad spoiled - I'll just switch focus to long game over the winter. As you know, my focus on short game over the last couple of months has lead to this being my strongest area strokes gained (lost if I'm being honest :-) ) as my average is now -0.1 a round. I'm sure that hunkering down in the swing studio over the winter will lose me a bit of 'feel' (although it's debateable whether 'feel' exists....) around the green but I'm equally sure I'll get back to where I am pretty quickly. In the meantime I'll see if I can really move my long game performance forwards.

As far as strength training is concerned training for all the sports I've ever done to any decent level (Discus, Javlin, Rowing, Rugby) require you to build strength from the core outwards. Having watched the vid that was posted on here regarding the tests TPI can do to determine your max clubhead speed I think the regime I'm doing now is a good start as much of it centres around exercises that would increase your scores on those specific tests.

In other news, that putting change I said I was working on when we last spoke seems to be working - 3 birdies in 9 holes at practice this morning. I'll post about it soon, it was so obvious I have no idea why it didn't occur to me earlier :-) 

Pete Iveson

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Swing thread's been updated again and didn't go quite as planned :-) 

Didn't want to just disappear but not sure continually updating the threads was particularly constructive. I clash with some members here which is unfortunate but it happens, and me annoying them and them annoying me isn't helping anyone.

Cheers for the help and support all, enjoyed sharing 'year 1' with you but think now I need to get my head down and work hard. Had a good lesson at the National Academy yesterday - stay more centred on the backswing helping a 'steady head'. Feel sure I've read that on a key somewhere :-) 

At the very least I'll come back in 4 years to tell Shorty he was right :-) 

Cheers all.

 

Pete Iveson

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1 hour ago, Nosevi said:

Swing thread's been updated again and didn't go quite as planned :-) 

Didn't want to just disappear but not sure continually updating the threads was particularly constructive. I clash with some members here which is unfortunate but it happens, and me annoying them and them annoying me isn't helping anyone.

Cheers for the help and support all, enjoyed sharing 'year 1' with you but think now I need to get my head down and work hard. Had a good lesson at the National Academy yesterday - stay more centred on the backswing helping a 'steady head'. Feel sure I've read that on a key somewhere :-) 

At the very least I'll come back in 4 years to tell Shorty he was right :-) 

Cheers all.

I don't get it, so are you leaving TST and will come back in 4 years to update us on what happened?  Or you just leaving this thread and your swing thread for ever and will still be around TST?  It's an ambiguous post, or maybe I just didn't understand what was meant by it.

p.s. everyone clashes, even friends..

:adams: / :tmade: / :edel: / :aimpoint: / :ecco: / :bushnell: / :gamegolf: / 

Eyad

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Pete, everyone clashes from time to time. Even friends, as Eyad says. Heck, @Abu3baid has had run-ins with several here, and we still regard him as a friend, and follow his game, and root him on in golf. Even if he is saying dumb things in some other thread at the same time… :-) (I'm teasing you Eyad… :-D.)

Erik J. Barzeski —  I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. 🏌🏼‍♂️
Director of Instruction Golf Evolution • Owner, The Sand Trap .com • AuthorLowest Score Wins
Golf Digest "Best Young Teachers in America" 2016-17 & "Best in State" 2017-20 • WNY Section PGA Teacher of the Year 2019 :edel: :true_linkswear:

Check Out: New Topics | TST Blog | Golf Terms | Instructional Content | Analyzr | LSW | Instructional Droplets

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Eyad, truth is I don't know. What I'm trying to do is supposed to be fun. Yes, I'm throwing myself into it in a big way but it's still supposed to be enjoyable. When I feel I have to start defending how I'm going about it etc it stops being and posting on here becomes a distraction from what I'm trying to do. I'm not really talking about the mini 'spat' with Erik either.

I think I need a break from TST and it probably needs a break from me. No hard feelings I've just got a lot going on right now.

I'll get my head down over the winter and practice hard and see how things look and feel come the spring. It'll all be dull indoor stuff anyway, you won't miss much. :-)

Pete Iveson

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Note: This thread is 2870 days old. We appreciate that you found this thread instead of starting a new one, but if you plan to post here please make sure it's still relevant. If not, please start a new topic. Thank you!
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