educate me - blades versus cavity backs

[Hammer 4]

My son not nearly as big as either your son or the OP, but he uses Cleveland CG Tour blades. He hit 2 iron shots yesterday on a 509 yard par 5 to within 20 yards of the pin He used an i20-4i, which he uses as a driving iron, and a 4i CG Tour.

It's all about having good ball striking. . .

BTW, CB are not blades.

I know CB's are not blades, but the size of my irons are Much smaller than any GI iron, so I believe there is some comparison there. True, it is about good ball striking, but I think what he or she chooses to play, is up to the individual. I.E. there's a guy at the range who is a low single digit HC, yet he chooses to play TM Rocketbladez also, and another single digit HC player plays older Calaway X 18's.

[Golfingdad]

I disagree that it's nonsense. It really depends if your goal is to immediately score lower or to learn to hit irons better. Sure you can learn to hit game improvement irons better too, but using blades kind of forces you to hit better in a more dramatic manner. Some people enjoy the journey more than immediate results, while many other people want to shoot lower scores as soon as possible.

I think it's just a matter of personal preference, so I disagree that it's "nonsense".

Disagree all you want, but then you're just wrong.  Read the sentence again:

He said "if you want to improve your golf game, get rid of the (game) improvement irons and switch to muscle backs." is this a true statement?

There is NOTHING about that statement that ISN'T complete and utter nonsense.  It is unequivocally untrue that you need to play musclebacks to improve.

Now, there certainly isn't anything wrong with playing musclebacks as a mediocre or beginning player, as long as you don't mind a little potential extra frustration while learning and potentially (slightly) higher scores while playing, until such time that you become adept at not missing on the toe.

The only good that would come out of that interaction between the OP and the pro in question is that it would give me all the information I need to avoid taking lessons from that guy.  If he thinks you can't improve with GI irons then what other crap does he spew when people are paying him?  Path controls start direction?  Putting is where it's at?  etc, etc.

[Lihu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lihu

I disagree that it's nonsense. It really depends if your goal is to immediately score lower or to learn to hit irons better. Sure you can learn to hit game improvement irons better too, but using blades kind of forces you to hit better in a more dramatic manner. Some people enjoy the journey more than immediate results, while many other people want to shoot lower scores as soon as possible.

I think it's just a matter of personal preference, so I disagree that it's "nonsense".

Disagree all you want, but then you're just wrong.  Read the sentence again:

Quote:

Originally Posted by the-infidel

He said "if you want to improve your golf game, get rid of the (game) improvement irons and switch to muscle backs." is this a true statement?

There is NOTHING about that statement that ISN'T complete and utter nonsense.  It is unequivocally untrue that you need to play musclebacks to improve.

Now, there certainly isn't anything wrong with playing musclebacks as a mediocre or beginning player, as long as you don't mind a little potential extra frustration while learning and potentially (slightly) higher scores while playing, until such time that you become adept at not missing on the toe.

The only good that would come out of that interaction between the OP and the pro in question is that it would give me all the information I need to avoid taking lessons from that guy.  If he thinks you can't improve with GI irons then what other crap does he spew when people are paying him?  Path controls start direction?  Putting is where it's at?  etc, etc.

Well, at least I know where your opinions stand. . .

[Vinsk]

In regards to the instructors comment...I gotta go with Golfingdad on this one. Many of us learned when there were no GI irons. Hell I learned on a set of Northwestern Thunderbirds....just a potato chip glued to a steel stick. To each their own be it GI or blades I think.

[mvmac]

He said "if you want to improve your golf game, get rid of the (game) improvement irons and switch to muscle backs." is this a true statement?

Not even close to being true. Pros on tour that use a variety of irons, musclebacks, cavity backs and some even use game improvement irons. I know a player that has played in two majors using G20 irons. With my own game, I never used blades growing up and used i3 irons for most of my college tournaments.

Musclebacks can give you better feedback but it most certainly isn't a "requirement" for improving your game.

[Lihu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by the-infidel

He said "if you want to improve your golf game, get rid of the (game) improvement irons and switch to muscle backs." is this a true statement?

Not even close to being true. Pros on tour that use a variety of irons, musclebacks, cavity backs and some even use game improvement irons. I know a player that has played in two majors using G20 irons. With my own game, I never used blades growing up and used i3 irons for most of my college tournaments.

Musclebacks can give you better feedback but it most certainly isn't a "requirement" for improving your game.

You should note that on cold winter mornings, that "feedback" on mishits is in the form of a bone shattering, tooth wrenching pain that rides up your neck.

However, the nice shots are really nice. . .

[Golfingdad]

You should note that on cold winter mornings, that "feedback" on mishits is in the form of a bone shattering, tooth wrenching pain that rides up your neck.

Right.  The word, "feedback" is often times a polite way of saying "pain, exacerbated by an unnecessarily poorer result."

However, the nice shots are really nice. . .

These are that statements that are most likely to lead people into the wrong beliefs.  The clear implication is that the nice shots are somehow better than the nice shots with GI or SGI irons.  And that falls into the same category as the OP's coaches original statement; complete nonsense.

[saevel25]

You should note that on cold winter mornings, that "feedback" on mishits is in the form of a bone shattering, tooth wrenching pain that rides up your neck.

However, the nice shots are really nice. . .

Thin to win! Clank

Not even close to being true. Pros on tour that use a variety of irons, musclebacks, cavity backs and some even use game improvement irons. I know a player that has played in two majors using G20 irons. With my own game, I never used blades growing up and used i3 irons for most of my college tournaments.

Musclebacks can give you better feedback but it most certainly isn't a "requirement" for improving your game.

I tend to agree that musclebacks do give more feedback. There is just more mass there and the feel is different. Though i will say that GI irons are getting better by having softer materials where the grooves are at and then having a harder casted elsewhere.

In the end it is all personal preference. There is really no set standard or adage to link handicap to iron type. I would just be more concerned with trajectory numbers and really making sure the GI clubs do not launch too high.

[Hammer 4]

Right.  The word, "feedback" is often times a polite way of saying "pain, exacerbated by an unnecessarily poorer result."

These are that statements that are most likely to lead people into the wrong beliefs.  The clear implication is that the nice shots are somehow better than the nice shots with GI or SGI irons.  And that falls into the same category as the OP's coaches original statement; complete nonsense.

Maybe he was referring to good shots, via a Forged club...?

[MrFlipper]

I tend to agree that musclebacks do give more feedback. There is just more mass there and the feel is different. Though i will say that GI irons are getting better by having softer materials where the grooves are at and then having a harder casted elsewhere.

In the end it is all personal preference. There is really no set standard or adage to link handicap to iron type. I would just be more concerned with trajectory numbers and really making sure the GI clubs do not launch too high.

I'd take this a step further and say its not just about feedback, its about shot dispersion.

I learned to play with blades too, like many here, there wasn't anything else back then. Mine were PGA Tommy Armours, I still think they are way more beautiful than any sets I've had since. And you got good feedback, and not so good feedback. Even a tiny mishit didn't go as far and went off line. And everyone has mishits. I was a 3 in college, and I still had lots of mishits.

Then your buddies start playing pings, they hit it farther, straighter, more consistent. Tighter shot patterns. They feel better about themselves, are more confident. And then for me, when buddies that were similar in skill start being more consistent and beating me like a drum with their pings, I noticed.

So It's really hard for me to understand that in general hitting MB's are better for anyone over say a 5 hdcp (and I figure the "blades" nowadays are way more forgiving than the blades from the 70's I remember). If the idea is to score lower, game improvement clubs are the way to go, prob even SGIs for higher handicappers. And its all about what you shoot, right?

OTOH, there is something mesmerizing about playing blades, they are so pretty, but its a siren song, I tell ya

[JonMA1]

For what it's worth (probably not much), I'll put my opinion in the mix.

I still have some old clubs I purchased from a thrift store and I think they qualify as blades. I really enjoy hitting them. Not because I'm good at it or can shape the ball or any of that nonsense about the "buttery feel". I like hitting them because it's an accomplishment when I can hit a few good shots in a row with them.

But if I had money riding on hitting a green that required a long iron, there's no way I'd pick that old set over my GI's.

I've just recently starting to put some time into Keys #4 and 5. Part of my practice involves putting tape on the face. Most practices, the marks span from toe to heel (no dime-sized brown spot for this guy). But there are nights where I seem to have everything grooved and I'm hitting the center spot on the club face repeatedly - at least for while. I think these are the times where playing blades would be feasible.

But here's the thing, this happens such a small percentage of the time.

I've taken these old blades out and played 9 a few times. It's fun in that I don't go out with any expectations of scoring low (that in itself is usually a good round for me). The last time out, I started out shooting pretty well with them and started to believe that I could play with these clubs. That lasted until hole 4. I got to a shot where a 4 iron was needed. I shanked the first ball, took a drop, sliced the second, took a drop, topped the third... you get the point. By the time I gave up, I had 4 or 5 ball sprayed all over and not one near the green.

One possibility for the OP would be to buy a used set of blades (cheap) just so you can see for yourself what the difference is. If you like them, consider investing in a newer set. My guess though is that you'll appreciate those Mizunos you have a bit more.

[cedrictheo]

Improvement is all about feedback and there are plenty of other options to get feedback besides playing blades. The easiest is to buy some dr scholls foot powder, or a dry erase marker and color the face of your clubs and then see how close to the sweet spot you are hitting it. Then try and hit it off the toe on purpose, then the heel on purpose, then the sweet spot, and mix it up. This drill is great for any club. I'd keep your clubs, save your money, and focus your attention on other drills and challenges that give you feedback.

[colin007]

These are that statements that are most likely to lead people into the wrong beliefs.  The clear implication is that the nice shots are somehow better than the nice shots with GI or SGI irons.  And that falls into the same category as the OP's coaches original statement; complete nonsense.

actually they are. a pured shot with a blade will go a little farther and definitely straighter than a GI or SGI.

[SavvySwede]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Golfingdad

These are that statements that are most likely to lead people into the wrong beliefs.  The clear implication is that the nice shots are somehow better than the nice shots with GI or SGI irons.  And that falls into the same category as the OP's coaches original statement; complete nonsense.

actually they are. a pured shot with a blade will go a little farther and definitely straighter than a GI or SGI.

Why would you think that? Any iron is really just a relatively flat surface with a fixed COG hitting a ball. There is no scientific reason a blade should go straighter or farther

[Golfingdad]

actually they are. a pured shot with a blade will go a little farther and definitely straighter than a GI or SGI.

So there are a bunch of tour players out there who are happy playing irons that don't go as straight as possible?

Are they the same ones that are "coasting" to top 10 or 20 finishes every week that don't want to win?

[Lihu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Golfingdad

These are that statements that are most likely to lead people into the wrong beliefs.  The clear implication is that the nice shots are somehow better than the nice shots with GI or SGI irons.  And that falls into the same category as the OP's coaches original statement; complete nonsense.

actually they are. a pured shot with a blade will go a little farther and definitely straighter than a GI or SGI.

Agreed about the pure shots feeling, but it's really brave of you to mention this on this site.

[Golfingdad]

Agreed about the pure shots feeling, but it's really brave of you to mention this on this site.

Then I'd like to pose the same question to you:

So there are a bunch of tour players out there who are happy playing irons that don't go as straight as possible?

Does that actually seem logical to you?  That tour pros are out there knowingly playing irons that are not the best options for them?

[Lihu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lihu

Agreed about the pure shots feeling, but it's really brave of you to mention this on this site.

Then I'd like to pose the same question to you:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Golfingdad

So there are a bunch of tour players out there who are happy playing irons that don't go as straight as possible?

Does that actually seem logical to you?  That tour pros are out there knowingly playing irons that are not the best options for them?

I hope I didn't make any claims that there is any "logic" to this perspective?

My intent was not to argue about the pros and cons of GI versus blades, but to simply state that blades feel nicer when hit well.