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In which sports can women equal men?


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Don't horses do most of the work in Equestrian?

My favorite story in this regard is one time while at the horse races, we watched a rider get thrown immediately out of the gate, and then his horse went on to "win" that race. So, other than weighing him down, I'm not really sure what kind of argument the jockey could make for his purpose. ;) [IMG]http://m.quickmeme.com/img/95/956becc8bbd44b1f916d0229c7816debd9a38aed07e1e1f2e25773c83d56338e.jpg[/IMG]

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There has never yet been a male champion in all-comers grudge holding.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2015/05/13/19-women-washed-out-of-army-ranger-school-last-week-heres-why-thats-actually-a-good-thing/ Not a direct comparison, but relevant.  Som

Quote: Originally Posted by Golfingdad In all of these cases, and ESPECIALLY in this case, they're forgetting WHY she's so dominant.  It's partly due to her skill but

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Originally Posted by rkim291968

Don't horses do most of the work in Equestrian?

My favorite story in this regard is one time while at the horse races, we watched a rider get thrown immediately out of the gate, and then his horse went on to "win" that race. So, other than weighing him down, I'm not really sure what kind of argument the jockey could make for his purpose. ;)

I've seen that a few times.  Jockeys weigh a little over 100 pounds but the loose horse was running around the track in wide angle, zigzagging around, getting bumped and still managed to come ahead of other horses.

My anecdotal story is .... Reverend Moon's children represented Korea in Equestrian and did well in Asian games.   Did they have talent?   The family is famous for troubled kids fighting each other for piece of Moon's empire.    I tend to believe that they had average talent at best and worse work ethic, being spoiled as they were - in an hour long  live TV ad campaign, Moon boasted giving one of his child a Benz for a high school graduation gift.  But what they had was money to buy the best horses their father can splurge on.   Enough said on the topic.

PS: I am sure he bought them male horses .... ;-)

PS 2: Better horse with female jockey wins over poor horse with male jockey. :-D

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http://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2015/05/13/19-women-washed-out-of-army-ranger-school-last-week-heres-why-thats-actually-a-good-thing/

Not a direct comparison, but relevant.  Some of you may be aware that the past month has marked an historic event for the U.S. Army, as 19 female Soldiers entered Ranger school.  The Ranger course is a two-month ball-busting (we'll have to find a new description, I suppose) test of physical and mental endurance.  It's not really about who is in the best physical shape:  you need to have a (quite high) threshold level of overall strength and physical conditioning, but if you can (easily) pass the physical standards, it's mental endurance and ability to handle stress that will carry the candidates through to the end.

8 of 19 women (47%) made it through RAP, the initial four days designed to separate the strong from the exceptionally strong.  184/380 men (48%) made it through RAP in the same course.  What that means:  in the most grueling physical test the Army can put together, women and men passed at the same rate under the same standards.  (Granted, the 19 women candidates were all hand-selected for this pilot test.  Though all Ranger candidates come from a self-selecting pool of extremely fit individuals, and pass the same set of assessments prior to being admitted into the course, these women certainly represent the toughest of the toughest female Soldiers.)

All 8 women also completed Darby phase (none of them passed, so all will be required to repeat the phase).  None of them were dropped, either during the phase or at the end.  35 of the 151 men who completed RAP were dropped by the end of the Darby phase.  That they were recycled--not dropped--is an important distinction.  It means that they failed technical aspects of patrolling, or did not "effectively lead" their patrols.  They failed not because they couldn't meet the physical challenges, but because they lacked patrolling skills.

So the females are just as capable as the male Soldiers from a physical perspective.  They recycled because they lacked technical Infantry skills--not surprising, given that no woman has ever served in the U.S. Infantry, while the vast majority of male candidates were Infantrymen.  Otherwise, they failed to effectively lead patrols.
It's very possible that this (extremely limited sample size) data tells us more about male perceptions of female ability than it proves actual female limitations.  For the female Ranger candidates to pass the patrols, they have to successfully lead male Infantrymen.  They apparently did not do so.  "Leading" requires, at least to some extent, the consent of those led.
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Women are not as good as men at billiards, and speed does occasionally play a role there. Last time I checked, anyway.

If by "speed" you mean break speed, then yeah, it plays a role in some games (8-, 9-, and 10-ball).  However, 3-cushion billiards, straight pool, and snooker, do not require any power shots that a woman would be unable to match.  I think that if there was enough incentive (i.e., tournaments with decent payouts) women such as Jasmin Ouschan, Jeannette Lee, and Allison Fisher, would be very strong contenders in straight pool tournaments.  As it is, the women have their own 9-ball and 10-ball events and have no reason to practice straight pool enough to really contend.

If you don't mean break speed, I'm curious what you do mean.

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I think in many sports women exceed men. Hockey (the old version played on grass) for example, women are much better than the men, You would think them mens game is more aggressive, however having played hockey at high school against the womens team it is a terrifying experience as they were totally mental!

Also here in England the womens Cricket and Rugby teams have surpassed the mens teams on many occasions.

Also netball, but thats just basketball with even less freedom!

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I think in many sports women exceed men. Hockey (the old version played on grass) for example, women are much better than the men, You would think them mens game is more aggressive, however having played hockey at high school against the womens team it is a terrifying experience as they were totally mental! Also here in England the womens Cricket and Rugby teams have surpassed the mens teams on many occasions. Also netball, but thats just basketball with even less freedom!

I'm pretty sure rugby and cricket are out of the question.. I think the question needs to be defined better.. The way I see it to answer with a name of a sport it needs to be proven that in a competition women generally have the same chance of winning as the men do.. Exceptions don't count as you'll always find exceptions..

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Also here in England the womens Cricket and Rugby teams have surpassed the mens teams on many occasions.

Absolute nonsense. Why  have you made this up?

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At one time, I searched hard for some data on LPGA putting stats. If they would publish their putting stats, I think that would be pretty much apples-to-apples with men. As we know, PGA Players sink 50% of 8-footers. Where is the 50% threshold for the LPGA?

When Inbee Park was seemingly sinking everything she looked at, I was curious to see where the actual stats for the season put her against typical men- but I couldn't find anything concrete on the LPGA site.

Putting on the green is surely the type of skill where the sexes could theoretically be similar, right?

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Quote:

Originally Posted by RussUK

Also here in England the womens Cricket and Rugby teams have surpassed the mens teams on many occasions.

Absolute nonsense. Why  have you made this up?

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Putting on the green is surely the type of skill where the sexes could theoretically be similar, right?

Women are worse putters, but theoretically, yeah, they could be as good.

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Yeah, strange phenomenon. Staci Lewis was ranked number 1 in putting. Her stats placed as #20 on the PGA. But what wasn't acknowledged is that the women play slower greens and an indirect effect in that they usually have easier pin positions than the PGA.
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Absolute nonsense. Why  have you made this up?

Why is it nonsense?

1. if you accuse someone of making something up please offering something to back the accusation up.

2. The womens cricket team has had more success recently when compared to the mens game. The womens rugby team were the last of the 2 to win a world cup, therefore are currently more succesful. Yes if you look at the 2 historically, by the simple fact that women havent been playng the two sports profesionally as long, then men are better.

I didnt realise a native of Austrailia would have such an intrest in the English game? (apart from trouncing us at every opportunity :cry: )

We are mutch better than you guys at tennis......oh hang on he's a Scott...damn!

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The womens cricket team has had more success recently when compared to the mens game. The womens rugby team were the last of the 2 to win a world cup, therefore are currently more succesful. Yes if you look at the 2 historically, by the simple fact that women havent been playng the two sports profesionally as long, then men are better.

I think you've misunderstood the thread topic. It's not about whether women can be as successful against other women as men are against other men, but whether women can compete with their male counterparts. Unless the women's rugby team or cricket team is playing and winning against men's teams, I don't see how you can say they're as good, in the context of this thread.

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Im sorry but i find the above comment quite offensive.

1. to accuse someone of making something up and offering nothing to back it up is plain stupid.

2. The womens cricket team has had more success recently when compared to the mens game. The womens rugby team were the last of the 2 to win a world cup, therefore are currently more succesful. Yes if you look at the 2 historically, by the simple fact that women havent been playng the two sports profesionally as long, then men are better.

I didnt realise a native of Austrailia would have such an intrest in the English game


The discussion is about men and women and skill.  What the English women's team does has no bearing on the discussion.

I hate to say it, but watching women play cricket is about as exciting as watching an under 12s match.

The best female cricketer in the world, Australian Ellyse Perry, played grade cricket in Sydney.

Are you suggesting that she is a better player than  David Gower was?

Sarah Taylor playing for Sussex is not proof that women are more successful/better than men.

You have to look at the number of people playing and the opposition.

Karrie Webb is Australia's most successful golfer. Is she better than all the men?

Women being successful agains women is not women equalling men.

Male and female versions of sports are different. Not better/worse.

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I think you've misunderstood the thread topic. It's not about whether women can be as successful against other women as men are against other men, but whether women can compete with their male counterparts. Unless the women's rugby team or cricket team is playing and winning against men's teams, I don't see how you can say they're as good, in the context of this thread.

I can see your point of view. If we stick to men and women competing against each other then there are very few sports that women would have more success than men.

The only sport in recent years that springs to mind is Indycar with Danica Patrick, however there seems to be a mindset in many male dominated sports that women cant compete with men because of the "physical nature" of the sports. Ok, in rugby, football and in golf this may be true. But in motorsport, as an exampe, women can beat their male counterparts. Michelle Mouton in rallying is another that springs to mind.

p.s @Shorty i wasnt having a major pop at you. Just wasnt keen on the accusation :beer:

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The discussion is about men and women and skill.  What the English women's team does has no bearing on the discussion.

I hate to say it, but watching women play cricket is about as exciting as watching an under 12s match.

The best female cricketer in the world, Australian Ellyse Perry, played grade cricket in Sydney.

Are you suggesting that she is a better player than  David Gower was?

Sarah Taylor playing for Sussex is not proof that women are more successful/better than men.

You have to look at the number of people playing and the opposition.

Karrie Webb is Australia's most successful golfer. Is she better than all the men?

I have to conceed this one, your are right. I was using the teams as an example of how they fair in their respective sports/sexes and missinterpreted the thread.

yes David Gower is better than Ellyse Perry, but my god, David Gower is boring!!

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I agree that men can do harder jumps.  But there is also presentation and a grace and beauty aspect.  Overall I think the women are better.

I do not think it makes sense to use sports in which the judging is subjective, for precisely the reasons that have already occurred in that pat of the discussion.

How about Horse Racing?  The 1915, 1980 and 1988 Kentucky Derby champions were all females.

Side note:  (I get goosebumps every time I hear Dave Johnson say "...and down the stretch they come!")

Also, auto racing?  Shirley Muldowney, as one example.

The horses or the jockeys?

I was thinking that as well.  In most of the course competitions, women dominate and I can't come up with any reasons why a female jockey would be at any disadvantage to her male counterparts in horse racing.

Despite the silliness in some of the posts, jockeys are some of the best athletes, pound for pound, around.  If you think the jockey is along for the ride you need to read a Dick Francis book.  Anyone who thinks that strength and power are not involved in riding horses, let alone racing them, hasn't ridden.

Remember the old show Superstars where athletes from various sports competed in a variety of events?  I'd bet that if you had 5 random pro golfers and 5 random pro jockeys, the jockeys would win hands down.

There are sports where a woman can compete with men, but those situations are far and away the exception (Jean Baluakas may have competed in pro men's pool events but she rarely won.  In any list of the top 20 pool players in the world there would not be a single female name.

It is very much the same in billiards.  Therese Klompenhouwer(sp?) will occasionally win a game against a top player like Caudron or Blondahl, but she will never win a top level tournament or make the top 25 (or probably the top 50) in the rankings.  Same with Mercedes Gonzalez, the best female US player.

One thing I remember reading in the past, but I have never really checked it out or pinned it down, is that general ability in men tends to have a flatter, wider bell curve.  So if you look at the extreme right end of the respective bell curves, which is where top performer live, the line on the men's bell curve is going to be way higher than the line for the women's bell curve.  Which translated back to real life, means that at the highest level the number of men will exceed the number of women by a significant amount.  Of course the same is true when we look at the extreme left end of the bell curve.  The best of the best are generally men, but so are the worst of the worst.

This all makes perfect sense in evolutionary terms.

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The horses or the jockeys?

Horses.

The 1915, 1980 and 1988 Kentucky Derby champions were all females.

Regret, Genuine Risk, and Winning Colors, respectively.  (Also of note is that in its history, only 38 fillies have even competed in the Derby.  I don't know how many horses used to enter the race, but now its usually around 20, and the race started in 1875 - meaning that a very tiny percentage of entrants have ever been fillies.)

To answer the follow-up question:

No female jockey has ever won the Kentucky Derby and only once has one won a triple crown race (Julie Krone - 1991 Belmont)

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