"Moving the needle" and Rory vs. Rickie vs. Tiger

[isukgolf]

I really like watching Ricky when he is contention. However, its been my own observation here, that Ricky, Rory, etc do evoke such polarity in opinions as does Tiger. Gold Standard ... I like that, and a lot truth in that.

[The Recreational Golfer]

Nobody - and it's not even close - in golf moves the needle to this day like Tiger Woods.

Maybe, but is it so see him do well, or to watch him implode?

[iacas]

Maybe, but is it so see him do well, or to watch him implode?

I mean this nicely… but you're not getting it. It doesn't matter what it is "to see him do." The point is it's to SEE HIM, and only him. Tiger is the only needle mover on the PGA Tour. Regardless of what he's doing.

[ScouseJohnny]

Quote:

I mean this nicely… but you're not getting it. It doesn't matter what it is "to see him do." The point is it's to SEE HIM, and only him. Tiger is the only needle mover on the PGA Tour. Regardless of what he's doing.

Well, if that's true, then golf has a simply enormous problem. Golf right now has a very exciting crop of young players. But if the only thing that gets people tuning in - if the only person who "moves the needle" - is, and I mean this nicely, an aging superstar whose peak years are behind him - then it's hard to know what to say. I guess we'd better just hope he sticks around until he's 60, consistently makes cuts, and trust that another couple of decades is long enough for someone else who captures the viewing public's imagination to show up?

None of the above is a criticism of Tiger Woods. I loved watching Tiger Woods in his prime. They were great years to be watching golf. But anyone objective who has watched golf in the past few weeks would have to admit, I think, that now is also a great time to be watching golf, and that Tiger may be a part of that - but he is certainly not the dominant part.

[iacas]

Well, if that's true, then golf has a simply enormous problem.

I don't disagree that it's a problem, but we may disagree with how BIG of a problem it is.

The PGA Tour was doing pretty well before Tiger. It did okay during some of his longer absences (like the latter half of 2008). When Tiger is actually gone people will find other things to talk about.

But because Tiger is still around, AND he's Tiger, that's what people talk about.

Nobody (for awhile anyway) will move the needle like Tiger still does, but if Tiger vanishes, his "needle moving capacity" will be distributed a bit (with some evaporative loss :D) to others.

[mvmac]

Well, if that's true,

Anything Tiger does is news. Who his swing instructor is, who he's dating, what he shoots when he's playing at home are all well covered. How many golfers know who Spieth's swing instructor is? Who Fowler's girlfriend was before last week?

But anyone objective who has watched golf in the past few weeks would have to admit, I think, that now is also a great time to be watching golf

I agree but Tiger doing whatever draws in a lot of attention. And it's well deserved, he's won 14 majors, dominated the game for several years and hit shots no one else was able to hit. Rory, Rickie, Jordan don't do that (or at least not yet).

[ChrisP]

Tiger still moves the needle. Unfortunately, Tiger never plays anymore. I don't know who is advising this guy, but the only way he's going to get his form back is if he gets some tournament reps in. Picking and choosing a tournament once a month isn't doing him any good. Meanwhile, Rory and Jordan play almost every week and look at the success it's gotten them this year.

We'll see Tiger, though, next month at the Memorial and then a few weeks after that at the Open.

[mvmac]

Tiger still moves the needle. Unfortunately, Tiger never plays anymore. I don't know who is advising this guy, but the only way he's going to get his form back is if he gets some tournament reps in. Picking and choosing a tournament once a month isn't doing him any good. Meanwhile, Rory and Jordan play almost every week and look at the success it's gotten them this year.

I think he's just "playing it safe" after his injuries and using the time to work on his swing with Como.

Even in his prime he didn't play a lot of events.

[Gunther]

I think he's just "playing it safe" after his injuries and using the time to work on his swing with Como. Even in his prime he didn't play a lot of events.

I think that was Chris' point. He's far from his prime and so needs more reps. Indeed, his minimal schedule is one of the reasons I predict he won't win but 1 or 2 more tournaments ever again, if any.

[ScouseJohnny]

Tiger doing whatever draws in a lot of attention. And it's well deserved, he's won 14 majors, dominated the game for several years and hit shots no one else was able to hit.

Not meaning to seem rude, but what you are describing there is nostalgia.

[mvmac]

Not meaning to seem rude, but what you are describing there is nostalgia.

I agree but not sure I see your point. Probably the greatest player of all time and one of the most exciting players, people are going to be interested in watching him.

If you had to run a pro-am and for whatever reason you had to decide between getting Tiger or Spieth, who would you choose?

[David L Yskes]

this is my thoughts , before Tiger golf was not really on anyones radar, unless you was a diehard golfer, or it was the only thing on tv that afternoon.. then once tiger was on tv, everyone flocked to see him and tuned in to see what he could do.. and since Tiger's downfall, everyone has been waiting for the next coming of Tiger.. which may never happen again.. the problem is if you want Rory or Rickie to move the needle likke Tiger does, well they would have to cut back on their tournament play and only play the majors and certain courses that they play well at... which is what Tiger did,, he only played X amount of tournaments per season.. just like he does now.. he will go weeks without playing a tournament... while everyone else is playing almost every week.. plus the other thing is the bar has been set so high for us average guys n girls who watch golf now, that we get disappointed when someone isnt the next Tiger or doesnt appeal to us like he does... we have just been spoiled for so long that even good golf doesnt make us happen

[Fourputt]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mvmac

Tiger doing whatever draws in a lot of attention. And it's well deserved, he's won 14 majors, dominated the game for several years and hit shots no one else was able to hit.

Not meaning to seem rude, but what you are describing there is nostalgia.

That is also why Tiger is still top dog.  Nicklaus was still top dog in 1985 when he'd only won twice in the last 4 years, and he was almost 6 years older than Tiger is now.  Jack never had the media scrutiny that Tiger has, nor was he remotely as well known outside of the golfing community.  Tiger is will continue to be the Prince of Golf until he is unseated by someone in the eyes of the public.  That hasn't happened yet, he is still playing, and still working hard and trying to win.  Golf fans may still be backing Tiger for his past glory, but that doesn't invalidate their hopes for more of the same in the future.

When he is in a tournament, the TV ratings are higher than in any tournament where he isn't competing, even when he is out of contention.  Rory can't command that sort of attention - not yet at least. Fowler certainly can't.  Jack had that sort of effect in his day, but even he didn't have it to the level that Tiger does.  Whether you like it or not, Tiger still moves the needle in modern professional golf.  Although I think that Rory might be close, right now nobody else does that.

[ChrisP]

I think he's just "playing it safe" after his injuries and using the time to work on his swing with Como.

Even in his prime he didn't play a lot of events.

Well, in his prime, he didn't need to play a lot of events. When you've got holes in your game (and obviously does right now) or he's trying to work in a new swing, the best way to work it out is get tournament reps in. If it was a physical issue, I'd understand, but word has been he's been practicing a lot at home.

I don't know. Everyone's different, but to me it just would make sense for him to play a little more to try and work his way back into tournament shape. This is a point I heard David Duval touch on last week and I agree with him on it.

[ChrisP]

Like I said before, it's going to be harder for Rory to fire up the ratings because he's a Euro. I think that's playing a big part. Also, ESPN's a big influence on things. He needs ESPN to make him a big story because that's where people go for news. If they see him all over ESPN, they're going to tune in more often.

I do think if he wins a couple more majors this summer...and if he stays on this form he has a good chance.....I think you'll start to see a big rise in people following Rory. He needs a few more majors, though. People like watching greatness and history, and if Rory passes Phil in majors and starts to set his sights on Tiger's 14, it'll get interesting, especially if a rivalry with Spieth forms in the middle of it.

[ScouseJohnny]

That is also why Tiger is still top dog.  Nicklaus was still top dog in 1985 when he'd only won twice in the last 4 years

I don't know about that. I reckon that in 1985 (and, to be honest, I was only 13 at the time), Nicklaus was acknowledged as being way past his prime and the one everyone tuned in to watch was probably Seve.

And I also have slight reservations about the "if only Rory was an American" line of thinking, which has been mentioned a few times. Treading rather carefully here........but I think a likeable Irishman might be very well placed to win over an American audience when it comes to being a golfer from any country other than the US, when he is shaping up to be the standout golfer of his generation.

[Fourputt]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fourputt

That is also why Tiger is still top dog.  Nicklaus was still top dog in 1985 when he'd only won twice in the last 4 years

I don't know about that. I reckon that in 1985 (and, to be honest, I was only 13 at the time), Nicklaus was acknowledged as being way past his prime and the one everyone tuned in to watch was probably Seve.

And I also have slight reservations about the "if only Rory was an American" line of thinking, which has been mentioned a few times. Treading rather carefully here........but I think a likeable Irishman might be very well placed to win over an American audience when it comes to being a golfer from any country other than the US, when he is shaping up to be the standout golfer of his generation.

Seve had the same difficulty as Rory, maybe more so, simply because he wasn't American.  Greg Norman probably made a larger impact here than Seve.  I viewed Seve as a player with flair, magical recovery skills, but maybe not the strongest overall game.  He won a lot in Europe, but only won 9 times on the PGA tour compared to 20 for Norman, making Norman a more familiar name over here.  Norman was also (and still is to some extent) a good self promoter.  But even in the sunset of his career, Jack was still the standard in the 80's.

[AmazingWhacker]

I definitely agree that Tiger is the only needle-mover.  I am of the belief that Tiger is the needle-mover because of his insane accomplishments.  Sure his persona is interesting.  Sure he's unique.  But people would/will go nuts about anybody who accomplishes what he has . .it doesn't matter if they're European, Asian or bald and fat.  So if Rory were to achieve the same level of success as Tiger, then he would move the needle like Tiger.  Take the most boring player on tour you can think of.  If he were to win 7 majors and 4 WGC events in 4 years, he'd be a needle-mover.  (Actually, because Tiger already came along and did that . .he'd probably have to win 9 majors and 6 wgc events).

Rory really seems like he could go on a tear and have some years like Tiger did between 1999 and 2002 .. but he has to do it . . just making people think maybe you could do it is not enough.

Rickie doesn't really belong in the conversation because, although he definitely has fans, his lack of achievements, thus far, limit his appeal outside of his specific marketing demo-graphic.  The golf industry can wish and hope and pray for the next needle-mover to come along .. but until he actually does, they will just have to wait.