Are there too many rules in golf?

[Rulesman]

The walking scorer was not qualified to ride in a cart and thus the golfer was penalized.

The COC doesn't say that.

[DrvFrShow]

There are 600 pages of rules and decisions in the Rules of Golf. You need a damned law degree to practically understand all of them. Of course the more you study them, the better they can be manipulated, just like laws.

Like Bubba's ants.... Ants are not burrowing animals.... right.... we have anthills like these on some golf courses up here.

I'm sorry, USGA, this is a burrowing animal.

[Lihu]

How does USGA treat a plurality of burrowing animals? One ant can't make that hill so it's technically not "a" burrowing animal? Or is it?

[DrvFrShow]

How does USGA treat a plurality of burrowing animals? One ant can't make that hill so it's technically not "a" burrowing animal? Or is it?

Ants are a colony, and they never ruled on colonies, but I would call that an abnormal ground condition.

Also poison oak is not my friend. The USGA can kiss my fois gras.

[Lihu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lihu

How does USGA treat a plurality of burrowing animals? One ant can't make that hill so it's technically not "a" burrowing animal? Or is it?

Ants are a colony, and they never ruled on colonies, but I would call that an abnormal ground condition.

Also poison oak is not my friend. The USGA can kiss my fois gras.

I'm going out on a wild limb and guess that your are not pleased with some of their decisions?

If a ball goes into poison oak, it's gone. I play a second ball and take the stroke and distance penalty or simply concede the hole. . .

[DaveP043]

How does USGA treat a plurality of burrowing animals? One ant can't make that hill so it's technically not "a" burrowing animal? Or is it?

The USGA has specifically excluded insects from the creatures whose burrows can be treated as an abnormal ground condition.  That said, I'd say a committee would be well justified in white-lining the anthill that @DrvFrShow included in her post as some kind of abnormal condition.

[ay33660]

The COC doesn't say that.

Yes you are correct it did not specifically say that I drew the inference from this quote in the newspaper article -

“They just have some really strict rules here that only players can ride in a cart,” Roxburgh said in a telephone interview. “I gave our scorer a ride and that was enough to get two shots. They were quite strict in their literature about caddies not riding and things like that.

In other words because only the player is authorized to ride in the cart the player was assessed a two stroke penalty for allowing the walking scorer to ride in the cart (and thus the walking scorer was not authorized to ride in the cart).

Bad writing on my part.

But beyond my bad writing style what I really want to know is how allowing the walking scorer to ride in the player's cart does this offer up an advantage to the player such that a two stroke penalty needs to be assessed?

Will the scorer give the player a better score ????????? Just kidding don't look this up.

[HonestyPolicy]

Going back to the OP's original question, and many may be surprised by my answer, I think that yes, there are too many rules for the majority of golfers out there. Let me say here that I recognize that some who are not competing against others can do what ever they want to have fun. Rules are only in place to facilitate fair competition. Those who impose rules on beginners and/or casual golfers may scare them from the game, and we should all want to grow the game.

http://www.usga.org/Handicapping/handicap-index-statistics/mens-handicap-index-statistics-d24e6096.html

According to the link above just a little over 31% of men are better than a 10 index. I'm not sure how many of these men pop out of the womb shooting a 10 index or better but I think it's safe to say that there aren't many. Golf is a game that one needs to work on, and play, and over time one improves, some faster than others and some not quite as fast. We are limited by both our physical ability and our mental ability and it can be impressive what some can do even with their limited abilities. It can be an addicting game, it can be a frustrating game, but there is no game like it.

All that said, I would love to see the USGA and R&A; produce a Class Rating for each golfer, maybe based on handicap, maybe based on age, maybe a combination of both, and maybe some other considerations I haven't thought of just yet. Hypothetical, they might have three Classes of golfer and each class has their own rule book. Now before you say "THEIR OWN RULE BOOK!", give me a chance. It's the same rule book but with a relaxed set of rules. For instance, a Class 3 golfer is a beginner to a casual golfer who the rules are quite relaxed for. For instance, he plays the forward tees, white stakes are treated like red, and he can fluff the ball through the green, that type of stuff. At some point he graduates (hopefully) to a Class 2 golfer where he might be able to play from any set of tees he wants, but white stakes are now out of bounds, and he can only fluff the ball in his own fairway. Then if he gets there he becomes a Class 1 golfer where he plays by the current set of rules. Now I'm not saying there can't be more relaxation for the Class 3 and 2 from the 1, I'm just using the three rules I referenced as examples.

What I tend to find these days is that many people are already playing with relaxed rules and I believe, like I believe others do, that they are doing this because it is a hard game. There would of course need to be some encouraging factor to provide incentive for improvement, and of course being honest with ones self is still paramount, but I believe there would be advantages.

One, it might help grow the game by easing people into the game instead of punishing them so severely from the get go for their inequities. Two, in club play it might encourage event participation to improve as people could play in and around others as mature at the game and it's rules as they are. And three, people could grow with the games rules by learning just some of it in the beginning and more as they improve. Four, the poor pros are always left having to be the final arbiter in a rules question but with a relaxed set of rules by Class these arbitration's should becomes less. Five, pace of play might improve as well.

It's not perfect, it's just an idea, but I think it's already happening by default at some clubs and tournaments. If the rules and play by the rules is so controversial, then let's make separate rules for different types of golfers. We do it in life. From apprentice to master, from intern to staff, from minor to adult, from participant to officer, we learn our way into things. Why not do the same with the game?

[iacas]

All that said, I would love to see the USGA and R&A; produce a Class Rating for each golfer, maybe based on handicap, maybe based on age, maybe a combination of both, and maybe some other considerations I haven't thought of just yet. Hypothetical, they might have three Classes of golfer and each class has their own rule book. Now before you say "THEIR OWN RULE BOOK!", give me a chance. It's the same rule book but with a relaxed set of rules. For instance, a Class 3 golfer is a beginner to a casual golfer who the rules are quite relaxed for. For instance, he plays the forward tees, white stakes are treated like red, and he can fluff the ball through the green, that type of stuff.

To what end?

Why should the R&A; or USGA spend the time doing that… when that's basically exactly what happens now anyway? Higher handicappers often do those same things you just said, and still count their scores. As they get better (and more knowledgeable), they enter competitions and follow stricter rules.

[HonestyPolicy]

To what end?

Why should the R&A; or USGA spend the time doing that… when that's basically exactly what happens now anyway? Higher handicappers often do those same things you just said, and still count their scores. As they get better (and more knowledgeable), they enter competitions and follow stricter rules.

Well aside from the 5 benefits I proposed we might enjoy if it happened (I said might) it would wrap some structure around whats happening now. For those who are not following the rules as they are today, many of them are doing it differently than others. Having a set of rules for those who want to play at different levels would have everyone playing by the same rules within their class instead of picking and choosing the rules they want to abide by vs the ones they don't. It just provides structure to the learning process is all. For the people that don't want to follow rules no matter how they are written, I agree there is nothing that can be done.

[ay33660]

Personally I do think there are a few unreasonable rules in golf.

I found this summary post by The South Dakota High School Activities Association and I keep a print out in my golf bag.

http://www.sdhsaa.com/athletics/boyssports/golf/18mostmisunderstoodrulesofgolf.aspx

Red Lateral Hazard
Option 1 - Play it from the hazard
Option 2 - Replay the shot from the original position, incurring a stroke and distance penalty
Option 3 - Draw a line from the hole to where the ball last crossed the margin of the hazard and drop anywhere behind that point keeping the point between you and the hole, incurring a one-shot penalty
Option 4 - Go to the point where the ball last crossed the margin of the hazard and drop within two (2) club lengths, no nearer the hole, on either side of the hazard, incurring a one-shot penalty

Yellow Water Hazard
Option 1 - Play it from the hazard
Option 2 - Replay the shot from the original position, incurring a stroke and distance penalty
Option 3 - Draw a line from the hole to where the ball last crossed the margin of the hazard and drop anywhere behind that point keeping the point between you and the hole, incurring a one-shot penalty

Lost Ball or Out-of-Bounds
After looking for a maximum of five (5) minutes, you must go back to where the shot was originally played from and replay, incurring a stroke and distance penalty.

Unplayable Lie
Option 1 - Take two (2) club lengths relief, no closer to the hole and assess a one-stroke penalty
Option 2 - Replay the shot from the original position, incurring a stroke and distance penalty
Option 3 - Take the ball back as far as you want, keeping the point where the ball lays between you and the hole, incurring a one-shot penalty

Improving Your Swing Path
You cannot bend, break, or hack anything growing or fixed if it improves your lie, your stance, or your area of intended swing.  The penalty for doing so is loss of hole in Match Play or a two-shot penalty in Stroke Play.

Unplayable Lie in a Bunker
Option 1 - Take a drop of no more than two (2) club lengths no closer to the hole, but still in the bunker, incurring a one-shot penalty
Option 2 - Replay the shot from the original position, incurring a stroke and distance penalty
Option 3 - Go back as far as you like in the bunker and drop, keeping that spot where your ball laid between you and the hole.  This incurs a one-shot penalty.

Removing Objects in a Bunker
You may not move or remove any loose impediments in the bunker unless they are foreign to the area.  For example, you may remove a candy wrapper, but may not remove a pine cone or tree branch.

Number of Allowed Clubs
You are only allowed to carry 14 clubs in your bag.  The penalty for carrying more than 14 clubs in Match Play is loss of hole (maximum of two holes).  In Stroke Play, the penalty is two (2) strokes per hole (maximum of two holes/four shots).

Casual Water
Find your nearest point of relief, no closer to the hole where neither you or your ball lie in water that can be seen without pressing your feet up and down.  You may then drop your ball within one (1) club length from that point, no nearer to the hole at no penalty.

Grounding Your Club in a Hazard
Practice swings may be taken inside a hazard as long as you don’t touch the ground, sand, or water with your club.  The top of the grass may be touched during a practice swing.  The penalty for grounding your club is loss of the hole in Match Play or a two-shot penalty in Stroke Play.

Accidentally Moving Your Ball
There is a one-stroke penalty for accidentally moving your ball and it must be replaced in its original position before hitting.  There is another one-stroke penalty for hitting the ball from the wrong place if it is not replaced.  There is no penalty for accidentally moving the ball when on the tee.

Removing Loose Impediments
If, in moving loose impediments, you accidentally move your ball, you must return the ball to its original position and penalize yourself one (1) stroke.

Asking for Advice
It is against the rules of golf to ask an opponent what club they have hit.  The penalty for this breach is loss of hole in Match Play, or a two-shot penalty in stroke play.

Ball on a Cart Path
You are entitled to free relief.  Step #1 - Determine the “nearest point of relief”.  This is the point where the ball would lay affording the player both swing and stance from the cart path.  Step #2 - you are entitled to one (1) club length relief from the point where the ball would lie once full relief is taken.  Step #3 - After dropping, the ball may roll up to two (2) club lengths no closer to the hole.

Changing Club Characteristics
Clubs may not be altered in any way once play has begun.  If a club is altered during the normal course of play, such as bending it after hitting a tree while attempting to hit the ball, the club may be taken to the shop for immediate repair and a replacement club may be used until the original club is repaired.  If the club is modified outside the normal course of play, such as breaking or bending it in a fit of anger, it must be taken out of play for the remainder of the match.  Should it be used again, the penalty is disqualification, whether Match or Stroke Play.

How to Drop the Ball
After determining the nearest point of relief, you may stand outside the drop area, no closer to the hole, and extend your hand to the side dropping the ball from shoulder height.  The ball may roll up to two (2) club lengths no closer to the hole.  If the ball rolls farther than that, you must re-drop.  If, after dropping two times, the ball continues to roll past two (2) club lengths, you must place the ball where it first touched the ground.

Repairing the Line of Your Putt
You may repair any ball marks in your line and remove any pebbles or foreign objects in your line, provided you do it with your hand or club.  You may not fix spike marks or fan the ground with a towel or cap to remove sand or foreign objects.  The penalty for doing so is loss of hole in Match Play or a two-shot penalty in Stroke Play.

Hitting the Wrong Ball
The penalty for hitting the wrong ball in Match Play is loss of hole.  If both players hit the wrong ball, only the first player to do so would be penalized as that would be the end of the hole.  The penalty for hitting the wrong ball in Stroke Play for either player is two (2) strokes and the original ball must be replayed from its original position.

Lately the rules infractions that seem to get into the most discussion are on TV .... player accidentally moves the ball the the width of a hair, it is caught by the high def camera and seen by a viewer who had to zoom in and replay it in super slow motion, player signs card and it turn out to be wrong as he didn't penalize himself for moving the ball and is disqualified. Can wait till we get "super high def" TV so we can see movement of less than the width of a hair and wait for some moron to call it in !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[iacas]

Well aside from the 5 benefits I proposed we might enjoy if it happened…

My point was that it's already effectively in place, and the USGA and R&A; haven't had to do a thing about it.

What would formalizing it do? The beginners already don't care about the rules much.

For those who are not following the rules as they are today, many of them are doing it differently than others. Having a set of rules for those who want to play at different levels would have everyone playing by the same rules within their class instead of picking and choosing the rules they want to abide by vs the ones they don't.

I don't see that happening. People are still just, IMO, going to play by whatever rules they want until they advance and have to or, most likely because they will have to , want to play by stricter rules.

[dkolo]

Personally I do think there are a few unreasonable rules in golf. I found this summary post by The South Dakota High School Activities Association and I keep a print out in my golf bag. [URL=http://www.sdhsaa.com/athletics/boyssports/golf/18mostmisunderstoodrulesofgolf.aspx]http://www.sdhsaa.com/athletics/boyssports/golf/18mostmisunderstoodrulesofgolf.aspx[/URL] Red Lateral Hazard Option 1 - Play it from the hazard Option 2 - Replay the shot from the original position, incurring a stroke and distance penalty Option 3 - Draw a line from the hole to where the ball last crossed the margin of the hazard and drop anywhere behind that point keeping the point between you and the hole, incurring a one-shot penalty Option 4 - Go to the point where the ball last crossed the margin of the hazard and drop within two (2) club lengths, no nearer the hole, on either side of the hazard, incurring a one-shot penalty Yellow Water Hazard Option 1 - Play it from the hazard Option 2 - Replay the shot from the original position, incurring a stroke and distance penalty Option 3 - Draw a line from the hole to where the ball last crossed the margin of the hazard and drop anywhere behind that point keeping the point between you and the hole, incurring a one-shot penalty   Lost Ball or Out-of-Bounds After looking for a maximum of five (5) minutes, you must go back to where the shot was originally played from and replay, incurring a stroke and distance penalty.   Unplayable Lie  Option 1 - Take two (2) club lengths relief, no closer to the hole and assess a one-stroke penalty Option 2 - Replay the shot from the original position, incurring a stroke and distance penalty Option 3 - Take the ball back as far as you want, keeping the point where the ball lays between you and the hole, incurring a one-shot penalty   Improving Your Swing Path You cannot bend, break, or hack anything growing or fixed if it improves your lie, your stance, or your area of intended swing.  The penalty for doing so is loss of hole in Match Play or a two-shot penalty in Stroke Play.   Unplayable Lie in a Bunker Option 1 - Take a drop of no more than two (2) club lengths no closer to the hole, but still in the bunker, incurring a one-shot penalty Option 2 - Replay the shot from the original position, incurring a stroke and distance penalty Option 3 - Go back as far as you like in the bunker and drop, keeping that spot where your ball laid between you and the hole.  This incurs a one-shot penalty. Removing Objects in a Bunker You may not move or remove any loose impediments in the bunker unless they are foreign to the area.  For example, you may remove a candy wrapper, but may not remove a pine cone or tree branch.   Number of Allowed Clubs You are only allowed to carry 14 clubs in your bag.  The penalty for carrying more than 14 clubs in Match Play is loss of hole (maximum of two holes).  In Stroke Play, the penalty is two (2) strokes per hole (maximum of two holes/four shots). Casual Water Find your nearest point of relief, no closer to the hole where neither you or your ball lie in water that can be seen without pressing your feet up and down.  You may then drop your ball within one (1) club length from that point, no nearer to the hole at no penalty. Grounding Your Club in a Hazard Practice swings may be taken inside a hazard as long as you don’t touch the ground, sand, or water with your club.  The top of the grass may be touched during a practice swing.  The penalty for grounding your club is loss of the hole in Match Play or a two-shot penalty in Stroke Play. Accidentally Moving Your Ball There is a one-stroke penalty for accidentally moving your ball and it must be replaced in its original position before hitting.  There is another one-stroke penalty for hitting the ball from the wrong place if it is not replaced.  There is no penalty for accidentally moving the ball when on the tee. Removing Loose Impediments If, in moving loose impediments, you accidentally move your ball, you must return the ball to its original position and penalize yourself one (1) stroke. Asking for Advice It is against the rules of golf to ask an opponent what club they have hit.  The penalty for this breach is loss of hole in Match Play, or a two-shot penalty in stroke play. Ball on a Cart Path You are entitled to free relief.  Step #1 - Determine the “nearest point of relief”.  This is the point where the ball would lay affording the player both swing and stance from the cart path.  Step #2 - you are entitled to one (1) club length relief from the point where the ball would lie once full relief is taken.  Step #3 - After dropping, the ball may roll up to two (2) club lengths no closer to the hole. Changing Club Characteristics Clubs may not be altered in any way once play has begun.  If a club is altered during the normal course of play, such as bending it after hitting a tree while attempting to hit the ball, the club may be taken to the shop for immediate repair and a replacement club may be used until the original club is repaired.  If the club is modified outside the normal course of play, such as breaking or bending it in a fit of anger, it must be taken out of play for the remainder of the match.  Should it be used again, the penalty is disqualification, whether Match or Stroke Play.   How to Drop the Ball After determining the nearest point of relief, you may stand outside the drop area, no closer to the hole, and extend your hand to the side dropping the ball from shoulder height.  The ball may roll up to two (2) club lengths no closer to the hole.  If the ball rolls farther than that, you must re-drop.  If, after dropping two times, the ball continues to roll past two (2) club lengths, you must place the ball where it first touched the ground.   Repairing the Line of Your Putt You may repair any ball marks in your line and remove any pebbles or foreign objects in your line, provided you do it with your hand or club.  You may not fix spike marks or fan the ground with a towel or cap to remove sand or foreign objects.  The penalty for doing so is loss of hole in Match Play or a two-shot penalty in Stroke Play.   Hitting the Wrong Ball The penalty for hitting the wrong ball in Match Play is loss of hole.  If both players hit the wrong ball, only the first player to do so would be penalized as that would be the end of the hole.  The penalty for hitting the wrong ball in Stroke Play for either player is two (2) strokes and the original ball must be replayed from its original position.   Lately the rules infractions that seem to get into the most discussion are on TV .... player accidentally moves the ball the the width of a hair, it is caught by the high def camera and seen by a viewer who had to zoom in and replay it in super slow motion, player signs card and it turn out to be wrong as he didn't penalize himself for moving the ball and is disqualified. Can wait till we get "super high def" TV so we can see movement of less than the width of a hair and wait for some moron to call it in !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

There's already in place what's commonly known as the "HD TV rule" wherein an infraction is spotted after the round and the player signed his card and it's something that isn't immediately possible for the player to have noticed, he gets the penalty assessed but isn't disqualified for a wrong card. I believe this is what saved Tiger at the Masters a few years ago.

[newtogolf]

I don't see that happening. People are still just, IMO, going to play by whatever rules they want until they advance and have to or, most likely because they ​will have to, want to play by stricter rules.

This has been my experience and many others that I've observed learn the game who were serious about becoming good golfers.

Those first 10 or so rounds on the course it's about learning to swing on awkward lies and staying out of hazards.  The bare minimum of rules are followed and scores are usually meaningless because the ball was picked up at double par

10 - 30 rounds - as the on course swing improves, the scores start to drop a bit and more rules are followed.  Scores are maintained and where necessary posted for handicap.

30 - 50 rounds - golfer has become more serious and wants to get a true perspective on where their scores are in relation to others so they adopt stricter adherence to the rules.  Handicap at this point typically remain flat or go up slightly to reflect the impact of playing by the ROG.

50+ rounds - golfer becomes more interested in tournaments, cash games, etc and continues to expand knowledge of rules and decisions.

[Asheville]

Develop a modest familiarity with the 7 pages near the front of the Rules book: "Quick Guide to the Rules of Golf" and any player will be able to handle most of the Rules problems on the course. But it it is fashionable for some posters in Rules forums to make the Rules seem scary and annoying.

[Martyn W]

There's already in place what's commonly known as the "HD TV rule" wherein an infraction is spotted after the round and the player signed his card and it's something that isn't immediately possible for the player to have noticed, he gets the penalty assessed but isn't disqualified for a wrong card. I believe this is what saved Tiger at the Masters a few years ago.

Never heard it called the 'HDTV Rule' , it is actually a (revised) Decision: 

33-7/4.5 (in part) ...if the Committee is satisfied that the competitor could not reasonably have known or discovered the facts resulting in his breach of the Rules, it would be justified under Rule 33-7 in waiving the disqualification penalty prescribed by Rule 6-6d. The penalty stroke(s) associated with the breach would, however, be applied to the hole where the breach occurred.

 

[Fourputt]

The USGA has specifically excluded insects from the creatures whose burrows can be treated as an abnormal ground condition.  That said, I'd say a committee would be well justified in white-lining the anthill that @DrvFrShow included in her post as some kind of abnormal condition.

Only if it is actually in the field of play.  I can find all sorts of "abnormal" ground conditions if I go far enough astray.  

 

 

Ants are a colony, and they never ruled on colonies, but I would call that an abnormal ground condition.

 

Also poison oak is not my friend. The USGA can kiss my fois gras.

You're not supposed to hit the ball so far off line that it lands in poison oak. 

[DrvFrShow]

That ant mound I showed... well there's some courses where I swear they just took a bulldozer and cut fairways. Just off the fairways in the woods you can find these pretty close to the rough. Granted these ants don't bite like fire ants but still. I... don't play that course anymore anyway, but was mentioning this as an example.