Caddies Overused

[David in FL]

Part of the game. Unfortunately, not so much for us amateurs anymore. Our loss. Big fat "no" for me.

[Perfect Slicer]

Originally Posted by ay33660

Especially when it applies to the LPGA where the caddies even line up their shots ??????????

WTF the pros cannot even line up their own shots.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jamo

Not exclusive to the LPGA. See Holmes, J.B.

Maybe Ben Wright was correct that the ladies have some handicap that keeps them from lining up.

This would apply to JB Holmes also.

[RickK]

It's allowed under the rules of golf and they're professionals playing for millions of dollars so it would be foolish not to use it to it's full advantage. I think some caddies just give yardages and others give more advise... it's up to the player. The player still has to hit the shot.

Ditto

Playing for all that money, you want ever advantage you can get.  Many time, I think the pro is just looking for affirmation of what he already knows/sees.  And, if he has missed something, nice to have someone there to point it out.

[newtogolf]

Ditto

Playing for all that money, you want ever advantage you can get.  Many time, I think the pro is just looking for affirmation of what he already knows/sees.  And, if he has missed something, nice to have someone there to point it out.

I think most guys on the pro tours use their caddies to validate their own thoughts where as on the LPGA some caddies are actively managing their golfers round and lining up their putts.

[Golfingdad]

I think most guys on the pro tours use their caddies to validate their own thoughts where as on the LPGA some caddies are actively managing their golfers round and lining up their putts.

The microphones are not usually close or sensitive enough to hear them, but I've always got the impression that the ladies' use of their caddies to line them up was exactly what you are describing with the men.  They are just validating that the player is lined up.  It's part of the routine, but I've never actually seen the caddy adjust the players aim.

I don't watch enough golf to know that for sure though.

[newtogolf]

The microphones are not usually close or sensitive enough to hear them, but I've always got the impression that the ladies' use of their caddies to line them up was exactly what you are describing with the men.  They are just validating that the player is lined up.  It's part of the routine, but I've never actually seen the caddy adjust the players aim.

I don't watch enough golf to know that for sure though.

It could be a guy thing where the male caddies are more outspoken with the female golfers versus the men but it often seems like the caddies for the LPGA do more than just validate the golfers thoughts.  One instance that comes to mind is I remember one caddie got into a bunker with an LPGA golfer and was penalized for testing the sand but I don't recall ever seeing a caddie enter a bunker with a PGA Tour player.

[RandallT]

Jason Day might make an argument that the caddie is essential part of his game. Not just for any one round, but part of his development as a person and as a golfer. His victory this weekend really opened my eyes to what a part of his life Jason Day's caddie has been for him.

http://www.golfdigest.com/blogs/the-loop/2015/08/jason-day-pga-championship-colinswatton-journey.html

Quote:

HAVEN, Wis. -- Right beside Jason Day and his family as the golfer awaited the Wananaker Trophy was his caddie Col Swatton. Any distinction between immediate family can be dismissed when comes to Day and his longtime mentor. When you talk about true impact on Day's life, Swatton's influence can't be overstated.

Swatton has been there since Day was a teenager. When Day's father died of cancer, Swatton was there. When Day needed guidance in his life as a mischievous teenager drinking at age 12, Swatton was there. For all the hours that Swatton has spent next to Day as he hit golf balls -- thousands, easily, from his days as Day's instructor at the Hills International Academy in Queensland, Australia, to the hundreds of PGA Tour events they've partnered up for -- Swatton was right there.

And so he was Sunday at Whistling Straits.

That's why the emotions streamed out of Day as he talked about Swatton after his major breakthrough at Whistling Straits. Their relationship goes beyond replacing divots and raking bunkers. It's one of the most unique on the PGA Tour. Swatton's presence in Day's life was a big reason he ended up with the Wanamaker Trophy.

In this case, you could certainly argue that the "caddie" (coach/mentor probably a better term in this case) was a key ingredient. Does Day have an advantage over other players at his level, because his caddie/coach/mentor can calm him down, settle his nerves, remind him of his roots, and keep him focused on the round at hand- as few other caddies can for their players?

Whether or not a caddie is someone this ingrained in your life, it seems there would be benefit for a player having a coach be caddie. If you trust your coach, why wouldn't you want him on your bag, watching every single shot you take?

[uitar9]

Never used a caddie-but did play a muni for the first time with an oldtimer who had played there 30 years.

I shot my first sub 90. He told me things I would never know and it paid off.

The pro caddie is part of a business team.

[MrDC]

I agree in some ways, I don't care for seeing a caddie behind players on the greens making the read, I definitely prefer to see a player do that by themselves, but otherwise I'm OK with it, as long as no range finders are allowed, caddies are a must.

[phan52]

Did anybody watch the PGA Professionals National Championship last month at Philadelphia Cricket Club? A young pro by the name of Ben Pollard had a two shot lead going into the last hole and hit his drive into a dicey lie next to a bunker. There was a creek short of the green that was definitely in play because of the lousy lie. It turns out that Pollard had his younger brother on his bag and his brother doesn't even play golf and has zero golf IQ. The guy tried to hit the next shot as close to the green as he could and ended up hitting into the hazard, instead of doing the wise thing and playing short of the creek. He ended up making double bogey and his two shot lead evaporated as his opponent birdied the hole to win outright. Most of the PGA Professionals used the local seasoned caddies who were available and if Pollard had a seasoned caddie on his bag the worst thing that would have happened would have been a playoff.

[iacas]

Did anybody watch the PGA Professionals National Championship last month at Philadelphia Cricket Club? A young pro by the name of Ben Pollard had a two shot lead going into the last hole and hit his drive into a dicey lie next to a bunker. There was a creek short of the green that was definitely in play because of the lousy lie. It turns out that Pollard had his younger brother on his bag and his brother doesn't even play golf and has zero golf IQ. The guy tried to hit the next shot as close to the green as he could and ended up hitting into the hazard, instead of doing the wise thing and playing short of the creek. He ended up making double bogey and his two shot lead evaporated as his opponent birdied the hole to win outright. Most of the PGA Professionals used the local seasoned caddies who were available and if Pollard had a seasoned caddie on his bag the worst thing that would have happened would have been a playoff.

Not necessarily. The decision still lies with the player. For all you know he thought he could hit it over the creek easily and get it close to the green.

In fact…

Polland, explaining his trouble on 18, said, “The tee shot was going to be the same as it was the whole week — 3-wood was the club every day. I had a pretty bad miss [and the ball] was sitting about knee-height there I thought I could get enough club on it to get it over the water; it was only about 100 yards. I had a feeling Matt was going to hit it close.’’

[phan52]

Not necessarily. The decision still lies with the player. For all you know he thought he could hit it over the creek easily and get it close to the green.

In fact…

Quote http://nypost.com/2015/07/02/matt-dobyns-wins-long-island-duel-to-earn-pga-championship-berth/:

Polland, explaining his trouble on 18, said, “The tee shot was going to be the same as it was the whole week — 3-wood was the club every day. I had a pretty bad miss [and the ball] was sitting about knee-height there I thought I could get enough club on it to get it over the water; it was only about 100 yards. I had a feeling Matt was going to hit it close.’’

Of course the decision lies with the player. But if he had a caddie with any golf IQ he probably would not have attempted it, at the very least had a conversation about options. I saw it live and we all thought that he should not have been trying that under the circumstances. He made the only play that could have lost it for him on that hole. No need to force anything with a two shot lead.

[saevel25]

Of course the decision lies with the player. But if he had a caddie with any golf IQ he probably would not have attempted it, at the very least had a conversation about options. I saw it live and we all thought that he should not have been trying that under the circumstances. He made the only play that could have lost it for him on that hole. No need to force anything with a two shot lead.

Tell that to Phil all those times he's taken the uber aggressive shot.

You have no clue if he would have or wouldn't have done. The player has enough golf IQ to make that call all day. In the end it's up to how the player feels on what he can or can not do.

[newtogolf]

Of course the decision lies with the player. But if he had a caddie with any golf IQ he probably would not have attempted it, at the very least had a conversation about options. I saw it live and we all thought that he should not have been trying that under the circumstances. He made the only play that could have lost it for him on that hole. No need to force anything with a two shot lead.

If you have a 2 shot lead going into 18 the golfer shouldn't need a caddie to tell him to play for par and force his opponent to eagle for a tie.  I'd say based on what @iacas posted, the golfer needs to improve his golfIQ

[Jon Hoover]

In Asia, all golfers MUST have a caddy; it's not your choice.  Very few exceptions.  If you can afford golf, you can afford the caddy. Whether any particular caddy helps you on the green read, that's up to you.  But caddy pulls the trolley, marks the ball, cleans the club, rakes the sand, offers the water to drink, marks the card, gives compliment of good shots, etc.  Saves some time. 18 holes gives a day's wages to most caddies.  Caddies mostly women, some are good looking 20 yr olds who appeal to the retired blokes.  Conversations?  Usually only if you can handle the local language with fluency.

That's pretty sweet all courses should have good looking 20yr old women caddies, it could defiantly increase revenue.

Its one of my Goals is to one day play a course with a Caddie, I just think it would be an awesome experience reminiscent of old school golf.

I tell you what, not that I'd want to remove caddies or anything but maybe 1-2 times a year at a Pro-Am or something I'd love to see the pro golfers play in groups of 4 with no caddies and all in carts, like your usual weekend round, it'd be interesting to see and shouldn't slow down the game too much. Well like my usual weekend round because most courses down here in  south FL require a cart they won't let you walk or push a cart because it would slow the pace of play too much, plus you'd likely have way more Ambulances called for Heat stroke/exhaustion in the summer.

[phillyk]

I tell you what, not that I'd want to remove caddies or anything but maybe 1-2 times a year at a Pro-Am or something I'd love to see the pro golfers play in groups of 4 with no caddies and all in carts, like your usual weekend round, it'd be interesting to see and shouldn't slow down the game too much. Well like my usual weekend round because most courses down here in  south FL require a cart they won't let you walk or push a cart because it would slow the pace of play too much, plus you'd likely have way more Ambulances called for Heat stroke/exhaustion in the summer.

Well local Pro-Ams are exactly like that.  4 golfers, 2 carts, beer, playing golf and having fun.  I played in one not too long ago with Duff McGee, and it took 4hrs and 45min I think.  It plays just like any other busy weekend course.

[phan52]

Quote:

Originally Posted by phan52

Of course the decision lies with the player. But if he had a caddie with any golf IQ he probably would not have attempted it, at the very least had a conversation about options. I saw it live and we all thought that he should not have been trying that under the circumstances. He made the only play that could have lost it for him on that hole. No need to force anything with a two shot lead.

Originally Posted by newtogolf

If you have a 2 shot lead going into 18 the golfer shouldn't need a caddie to tell him to play for par and force his opponent to eagle for a tie.  I'd say based on what @iacas posted, the golfer needs to improve his golfIQ

He was under pressure in trying to win a huge tournament and he could have used somebody to lean on in that circumstance. If he lays up short of the creek he has a wedge in to a very accessible pin. If he lays up just over the creek he only has a shorter wedge in to the same pin. I don't see where the risk would have gained all that much and he probably could have used somebody with some golf IQ to at least discuss the options. He took a needless risk and it cost him the tournament.

[Elmer]

I want to see these guys out there carrying their own bags and playing on their own.

I think if they did this there would be less -20 scores out there!