Donald Trump for president?

[Golfingdad]

Just need some clarity here with your statement "illegal immigrants are still immigrants". Are you saying there is no difference between an illegal immigrant and an immigrant that had followed all the procedures and has been approved for immigration by the government? Because to me the fact that they are in the US illegally makes them criminals PERIOD. Otherwise why the hell should any country have immigration laws ....... heck just let everyone in why have a border. I think there is a huge difference when the press or politician leave out the word "illegal".

It's only a huge difference if you think that the fact that they're illegal immigrants gives Trump the right to call them all rapists and murderers. I don't.

[rkim291968]

I don't believe people from Mayflower had green cards.  USA was founded by illegal aliens if you think about it.  And it was built by immigrants, legal and illegal alike.   Some of those illegals have helped build DT's golf courses, cleaned his hotels, cooked and served at his restaurants.   I am not condoning the practice of sneaking into USA illegally.   I am just pointing out the reality.   And their children will likely play golf, some even at DT's golf courses.

[boogielicious]

I don't believe people from Mayflower had green cards.  USA was founded by illegal aliens if you think about it.  And it was built by immigrants, legal and illegal alike.   Some of those illegals have helped build DT's golf courses, cleaned his hotels, cooked and served at his restaurants.   I am not condoning the practice of sneaking into USA illegally.   I am just pointing out the reality.   And their children will likely play golf, some even at DT's golf courses.

I am directly related to 14 people who came over on the Mayflower. I can verify for a fact that they did not have green cards. They also did not bath very often.

Thanks all for keeping this thread relatively civil. Please, please do not direct insults at other posters (not referring to you at all @rkim291968 ).

Some of you are getting a little close to that and will be restricted from the thread.

[ay33660]

I don't believe people from Mayflower had green cards.  USA was founded by illegal aliens if you think about it.  And it was built by immigrants, legal and illegal alike.   Some of those illegals have helped build DT's golf courses, cleaned his hotels, cooked and served at his restaurants.   I am not condoning the practice of sneaking into USA illegally.   I am just pointing out the reality.   And their children will likely play golf, some even at DT's golf courses.

Well this is getting way off topic so I will keep it short but I am almost 100% certain that back in the days of the Mayflower there was no legislative government establishing immigration laws. If there were no laws then they would not be illegal immigrants.

[newtogolf]

It's only a huge difference if you think that the fact that they're illegal immigrants gives Trump the right to call them all rapists and murderers.

I don't.

They are not all rapists and / or murderers but they are criminals if they are living in this country illegally.  As for other crimes, I tried to do some research and aside from really right wing sources (which I don't trust) I couldn't find any crime statistics.  What I did find is that currently 60% of the FBI's most wanted in CA are considered illegal aliens.

I am not a Trump apologist, but after reading about the Fast and The Furious (not the car movie) and what occurs within these people smuggling operations, there are a lot of unsavory people (gang members, drug cartel) that are involved in this activity whose crimes do include, rape and murder.

That issue aside, it's a two prong problem, if we really want to stop illegal immigration we have to stop giving these people a reason to enter this country which means ALL businesses that hire illegal immigrants for labor should be fined heavily and their owners or board of directors placed in jail.  I want to see our government go after these businesses and I'm pretty sure we'll see the numbers crossing the borders slow down.

[Vinsk]

It's only a huge difference if you think that the fact that they're illegal immigrants gives Trump the right to call them all rapists and murderers. I don't.

First of all...sorry but he DOES have the right to call them rapist and drug dealers if he chooses to. Careful with your wording. Second, he said some are good people. Are you saying that no illegal immigrants are rapists or drug dealers or murderers? None? So he said some are rapists...some are good people. That is correct. Makes no difference to golf. He's done good for golf and he's done poorly for golf. The most recognized and powerful influential golfer in years was busted for banging waitresses and porn stars all over the country and golf is still going along.

[RandallT]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Golfingdad

It's only a huge difference if you think that the fact that they're illegal immigrants gives Trump the right to call them all rapists and murderers.

I don't.

First of all...sorry but he DOES have the right to call them rapist and drug dealers if he chooses to. Careful with your wording. Second, he said some are good people. Are you saying that no illegal immigrants are rapists or drug dealers or murderers? None? So he said some are rapists...some are good people. That is correct. Makes no difference to golf. He's done good for golf and he's done poorly for golf. The most recognized and powerful influential golfer in years was busted for banging waitresses and porn stars all over the country and golf is still going along.

I've seen DT defend what he said, and it seems to me that he is not even speaking about all illegal immigrants. He is speaking about the Mexican government trying to send us their worst. He is not making any statement about what percent of illegal immigrants is rapists/drug dealers/etc.  He was simply saying that the Mexican government is complicit in sending rapists and drug dealers (and some good people), because they don't want them and they think we will be suckers for keeping them.

Every society has this element of person, so his charge that the government is doing this is not a condemnation of the Mexican people. It is not a statement like "illegal immigrants are mostly drug dealers and rapists." It is certainly not "Mexicans are mostly drug dealers and rapists." It is more like "The Mexican government is sending us mostly drug dealers and rapists, because they don't want them in their country (and we are suckers for not fighting back)."

He might be wrong in that accusation, but he's not saying anything about the overall quality of Mexicans, despite the gross misinterpretation of people.

[Jon Hoover]

I only read the first page and everyone was calling DT names like a loon, idiot, loose nut.  It just goes to show what kind of morons we have voting out there. This guy has major degrees and if you look at his family, he has done an amazing job raising these great human beings. Should golf kick DT out?  If they do they are as stupid as the clowns on the first page. It looks like they will but they are only shooting themselves in the foot. DT is telling the truth but the left or the right can't handle that. I'm amazed at how many people will attack this guy and say what an idiot he is. If he's an idiot, I want to be an idiot too. I'd say he has the best chance to win of all the republicans running.  I think most people are tired of politicians and Trump ain't no politician.

With that statement you have accomplished that!

First of all...sorry but he DOES have the right to call them rapist and drug dealers if he chooses to. Careful with your wording. Second, he said some are good people. Are you saying that no illegal immigrants are rapists or drug dealers or murderers? None? So he said some are rapists...some are good people. That is correct. Makes no difference to golf. He's done good for golf and he's done poorly for golf. The most recognized and powerful influential golfer in years was busted for banging waitresses and porn stars all over the country and golf is still going along.

People of all races, ethnic backgrounds, or countries are rapists and drug dealers, he is just being racist for singling them out.

Just need some clarity here with your statement "illegal immigrants are still immigrants".

Are you saying there is no difference between an illegal immigrant and an immigrant that had followed all the procedures and has been approved for immigration by the government?

Because to me the fact that they are in the US illegally makes them criminals PERIOD.

Otherwise why the hell should any country have immigration laws ....... heck just let everyone in why have a border.

I think there is a huge difference when the press or politician leave out the word "illegal".

Of the more than 31 million foreign-born people living in the United States in 2009, about 20 million were either citizens or legal residents. Of those who did not have authorization to be here, about 45 percent entered the country legally and then let their papers expire. Similar to getting you license revoked for not paying tickets/fees, thus being more similar to Golfingdads quote below.

It's not double speak.  Illegal immigrants are still immigrants.  Sorry, but being guilty of one offense doesn't give some blowhard carte blanche to lump them together with the dregs of society.

I've got a speeding ticket before, and it's a safe bet that many people who have received speeding tickets are also rapists or murderers.  If Donald Trump came out and said we need to do something about traffic violators, "many of whom are rapists and murderers" would everybody be OK with that leap??

I think not.

DT is likely to make more absurd comments thus ensuring that the golf organizations that deal with him will have not choice but to stat away.

[misty_mountainhop]

I've seen DT defend what he said, and it seems to me that he is not even speaking about all illegal immigrants. He is speaking about the Mexican government trying to send us their worst. He is not making any statement about what percent of illegal immigrants is rapists/drug dealers/etc.  He was simply saying that the Mexican government is complicit in sending rapists and drug dealers (and some good people), because they don't want them and they think we will be suckers for keeping them.

Every society has this element of person, so his charge that the government is doing this is not a condemnation of the Mexican people. It is not a statement like "illegal immigrants are mostly drug dealers and rapists." It is certainly not "Mexicans are mostly drug dealers and rapists." It is more like "The Mexican government is sending us mostly drug dealers and rapists, because they don't want them in their country (and we are suckers for not fighting back)."

He might be wrong in that accusation, but he's not saying anything about the overall quality of Mexicans, despite the gross misinterpretation of people.

Leaving aside the fact that, classically, having been an arse, it sounds like he's trying to re-cast what he actually said, it seems to me there are therefore two possibilities:

1) The Donald meant what he said that Mexicans are the slime of the Earth, or

2) He didn't mean it that way at all but simply said something absurdly stupid in a long line of Earth-shatteringly stupid remarks and yet people are seriously considering this man as taking a primary role in your own domestic policy and diplomatic efforts Worldwide over the next 4 years or so???

Doesn't matter anyway. He surely has no hope what-so-ever. If he somehow gets the Republican nomination, he'll get shredded. I can't wait to hear what sort of skeletons he has in his closet.

Another take on The Donald's 'appreciation' of both Mexicans and immigrants to the U.S.A:

http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2015/jul/15/donald-trump-butt-plug-3d-printing

[RandallT]

[QUOTE name="RandallT" url="/t/83077/should-golf-dump-donald-trump/144#post_1169381"]   I've seen DT defend what he said, and it seems to me that he is not even speaking about all illegal immigrants. He is speaking about the Mexican government trying to send us their worst. He is not making any statement about what percent of illegal immigrants is rapists/drug dealers/etc.  He was simply saying that the Mexican government is complicit in sending rapists and drug dealers (and some good people), because they don't want them and they think we will be suckers for keeping them. Every society has this element of person, so his charge that the government is doing this is not a condemnation of the Mexican people. It is not a statement like "illegal immigrants are mostly drug dealers and rapists." It is certainly not "Mexicans are mostly drug dealers and rapists." It is more like "The Mexican government is sending us mostly drug dealers and rapists, because they don't want them in their country (and we are suckers for not fighting back)." He might be wrong in that accusation, but he's not saying anything about the overall quality of Mexicans, despite the gross misinterpretation of people.  [/QUOTE] Leaving aside the fact that, classically, having been an arse, it sounds like he's trying to re-cast what he actually said, it seems to me there are therefore two possibilities: 1) The Donald meant what he said that Mexicans are the slime of the Earth, or 2) He didn't mean it that way at all but simply said something absurdly stupid in a long line of Earth-shatteringly stupid remarks and yet people are seriously considering this man as taking a primary role in your own domestic policy and diplomatic efforts Worldwide over the next 4 years or so??? Doesn't matter anyway. He surely has no hope what-so-ever. If he somehow gets the Republican nomination, he'll get shredded. I can't wait to hear what sort of skeletons he has in his closet. Another take on The Donald's 'appreciation' of both Mexicans and immigrants to the U.S.A: [URL=http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2015/jul/15/donald-trump-butt-plug-3d-printing]http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2015/jul/15/donald-trump-butt-plug-3d-printing[/URL]

I'm not a fan of him for president whatsoever, but he didn't recast anything in later statements. His first statement was consistent with his double down. I don't see much, if any, difference. I am stunned people would think he would think that Trump thinks immigrants are mostly criminals? That would be remarkable, even for Trump. It was a simple accusation about the Mexican government.

[chop]

He is not an idiot.  He is a good business man.   Golf world can use hit interest in golf.   But DT is a narcissistic megalomaniac IMO (I had close family members who had the same personality disorder and I can spot one mile away).  It's all about he, himself, him.   He loves himself more than he loves anything else and will do anything to make that point.  Take this for example.   He said ISIS are building hotels in Syria.  Immediately after that, he said "Isis is competing against meeeeeeeeee."    Huh?   Isis are doing so many horrific things and that's all DT can say about ISIS?

I know there are small minority of Americans who love what DT is doing.   But if you carefully analyze what he has been saying, it does not take a genius to understand that he is saying a lot of things he can't follow through.  I.e, despite his bravado, he can't walk the walk even if he becomes the prez.   Build a wall between Mexico and USA?  Think about all the roadblocks - env studies, land disputes, budget that it will take, ....   Even if all that roadblock is cleared, it will take decades to build one and that won't prevent Mexicans to come across the border.  Just look at the middle Easterns and North African exodus to Europe.  They do so with their life on the line.   Will to live or seek for a better life can overcome any walls.   Just ask the Chinese about how effective the Great Wall was.  It was not effective at all.  This is just one example of how DT is lying to us.

Another example: Bomb the Iraqi oil field to cut off finance to ISIS?   If you look at what ISIS has been doing, they have been a moving target.  If the allies attack one of their occupied areas, they move on to another city.   Given that pattern, DT has to bomb the entire Iraqi and Syrian oil fields.   That's going to turn more people against USA.  Build a wall around US troops while Exxon is rebuilding the oil fields very quickly?   Why doesn't he put a target sign around our troops necks?

Bottom line, DT is saying a lot of things that does not make sense.   The tragic thing is, some of us are being fooled and is ok for him to represent the Rep party.   And if he becomes the nominee, Dem will win the presidency for sure.   If he is a true Rep, he should have stayed home.

Sounds like you just want a democrat in the office. Do you think anyone has a chance to beat Hillary, backed by virtually all blacks, Hispanics, union members and half the women in this country. Before Obama was elected in his first speech at the Democratic Convention for Clinton, he gave a speech about how Democrats and Republicans, black and white, should come together. It was bullshit and how have those lies worked out? These guys will say whatever it takes to win. it's politics. So do YOU think the left is the way to go or do YOU think the right is the way to go? If you think the right is the way to go, you will vote for the guy that's getting the most votes. If you think the left is the way to go, you try to convince everyone the most popular Republican is a nut without showing that you are on the left. Sounds like your the latter. And you continue the name calling because it makes you feel smarter. Maybe your the megalomaniac. IMO

[rkim291968]

Originally Posted by chop

Sounds like you just want a democrat in the office.

Actually, I rarely vote or have any connection to either party.   You are just extrapolating what is not there.  On topic -  If DT continues to ratchet up his rhetoric, businesses will continue to drop him, golf industry included.

BTW, although he is leading Rep nominee poll, he is also leading "unfavorable" poll for all candidates.   If Reps vote him to be their nominee, it'd be their loss.   They won't win the presidency.

[Vinsk]

With that statement you have accomplished that! People of all races, ethnic backgrounds, or countries are rapists and drug dealers, he is just being racist for singling them out. [COLOR=333333]Of the more than 31 million foreign-born people living in the United States in 2009, about 20 million were either citizens or legal residents. Of those who did not have authorization to be here, about 45 percent entered the country legally and then let their papers expire. Similar to getting you license revoked for not paying tickets/fees, thus being more similar to Golfingdads quote below.[/COLOR] DT is likely to make more absurd comments thus ensuring that the golf organizations that deal with him will have not choice but to stat away.

Actually you're quite wrong. First "Mexican" is not a race. It's a nationality. USA has a unique problem with illegal immigration at our southern border simply due to geography. I think you've joined to PC movement to do your best to make anything a racial matter without putting any solid thinking into it. We have an issue with the Mexican government and the large influx of Mexicans entering the U.S. Illegally due the common sense factor of their country bordering ours. That is NOT racist.

[rkim291968]

People crossing Mexican border are not all Mexicans.   They come from Central & South America, too.  That's a technicality, I know.   But my point is, DT's Mexican comment extends to all Hispanics in reality.   Businesses are making decisions to cut ties with DT b/c the Hispanics are their customers, too.   To some business like Univision, it's the vast majority of their customer although I watch their program to catch soccer matches - gooooooooooool.   If golfers in USA is largely made up of Hispanics, the golf industry would have dropped DT much sooner, within hours of DT's comment.

[Vinsk]

Should Golf Dump Trump?  That is the question on this thread. [SPOILER=OT] US is not unique with border control problems. Ask every European country.  Even Mexico has issues with its southern border. Trump should understand that. But he is just playing the Reality Show Star. [/SPOILER]

I didn't mean unique to the world. I meant unique to US because Mexico borders us.

[Vinsk]

People crossing Mexican border are not all Mexicans.   They come from Central & South America, too.  That's a technicality, I know.   But my point is, DT's Mexican comment extends to all Hispanics in reality.   Businesses are making decisions to cut ties with DT b/c the Hispanics are their customers, too.   To some business like Univision, it's the vast majority of their customer although I watch their program to catch soccer matches - gooooooooooool.   If golfers in USA is largely made up of Hispanics, the golf industry would have dropped DT much sooner, within hours of DT's comment.

Mexican extends to all Hispanics? You've got some studying to do.

[Jon Hoover]

Mexican extends to all Hispanics? You've got some studying to do.

Approximately 257,000 non-Mexicans were apprehended by the U.S. Border Patrol in 2014, compared to about 229,000 Mexicans, according to the recently released data .

Try looking into the facts...

[rkim291968]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vinsk

Mexican extends to all Hispanics? You've got some studying to do.

Approximately 257,000 non-Mexicans were apprehended by the U.S. Border Patrol in 2014, compared to about 229,000 Mexicans, according to the recently released data.

Try looking into the facts...

Thanks @Jon Hoover.

@Vinsk , the border is a popular (only?) route for Central/South Americans to come to USA.    I don't think DT knew that when he singled out Mexico with his comment.   But that goes to show, DT is just shooting from the hips.   As he continues his ways, he will piss more and more businesses and they will distance themselves from him.      It may also convince the minority of DT supporters to rally around DT and that does not bode well for the Rep party.