Which president candidate fits you?

[newtogolf]

Why would anyone fake it, though? Fossil fuels are bad for our air regardless of climate change. Why would some fake a model to show that climate change is occurring?

Maybe because they were paid grant money to reach the conclusion those who control the grant money wanted them to.

I know some of you like to think science is pure and beyond corruption but that's a fallacy, with enough money you can find plenty of scientists to manipulate the numbers however you want them to.

I'm not saying this is the case with global warming but let's not pretend it's not possible.

[jsgolfer]

You mean that the global temperature has risen? The climate is changing, what happens to the global environment is not 100% certain. Nothing is.

No I have no idea if the temperature has risen, because I do't think we can accurately determine what that should be.  It would have to be a range at best, but what that is I don't believe anyone knows.  There isn't a single temperature that the world needs to be for us to survive.  The climate always changes, that is a fact, whether it's man-made or not is up to debate, the science isn't settled no matte what any climate scientist says.

And from what I know, it is almost impossible to determine what the temperature was in the past that we are comparing the information we have now.

[jsgolfer]

Very well said. A book i highly recommend for enjoyment and educational purposes. Is "state of fear" by Michael Crichton.

read it, great read.

[newtogolf]

No I have no idea if the temperature has risen, because I do't think we can accurately determine what that should be.  It would have to be a range at best, but what that is I don't believe anyone knows.  There isn't a single temperature that the world needs to be for us to survive.  The climate always changes, that is a fact, whether it's man-made or not is up to debate, the science isn't settled no matte what any climate scientist says.

George Carlin had a great routine on global warming, the environment and human arrogance.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EjmtSkl53h4

[jsgolfer]

Maybe because they were paid grant money to reach the conclusion those who control the grant money wanted them to.

I know some of you like to think science is this pure and beyond corruption but that's a fallacy, with enough money you can find plenty of scientists to manipulate the numbers however you want them to.

I'm not saying this is the case with global warming but let's not pretend it's not possible.

On the nose.

[jsgolfer]

George Carlin had a great routine on global warming, the environment and human arrogance.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EjmtSkl53h4

Great skit, seen it many times,  Very funny.  Love George.

[Chilli Dipper]

You do realize that without cheap oil we'd be still living in the dark ages.  Cheap energy is the reason we prosper, finding an alternative is a good idea, but nothing practical at this time.

What do we do, then? Nothing? "Societal collapse is inevitable in any case, so let's enjoy peak oil while it lasts...mankind has had a good run?" I hope you don't have children. I'd never want to wish that kind of future for them.

[Lihu]

[QUOTE name="Lihu" url="/t/83054/which-president-candidate-fits-you/54#post_1169197"] You mean that the global temperature has risen? The climate is changing, what happens to the global environment is not 100% certain. Nothing is.[/QUOTE] No I have no idea if the temperature has risen, because I do't think we can accurately determine what that should be.  It would have to be a range at best, but what that is I don't believe anyone knows.  There isn't a single temperature that the world needs to be for us to survive.  The climate always changes, that is a fact, whether it's man-made or not is up to debate, the science isn't settled no matte what any climate scientist says. And from what I know, it is almost impossible to determine what the temperature was in the past that we are comparing the information we have now.

True, even the sun goes through different temperature cycles as well and could be one causes of our current temperature variation. It's not a solar "constant", close but not exact. Regardless, it will be difficult to measure the global temperature very accurately.

[jsgolfer]

What do we do, then? Nothing? "Societal collapse is inevitable in any case, so let's enjoy peak oil while it lasts...mankind has had a good run?"

I hope you don't have children. I'd never want to wish that kind of future for them.

Never the optimist I take it?   Societal collapse, seriously?  Do you really think that the world is going to end?  I trust that human ingenuity will figure out whatever it is we will have to do.

[Gunther]

Thankfully, this fallacious argument is finally losing steam. Studies from Duke U and some University in India are starting to get out there, much to the media's chagrin. Every day more and more folks are starting to realize this has been another deception perpetrated on the American people.

[jsgolfer]

True, even the sun goes through different temperature cycles as well and could be one causes of our current temperature variation. It's not a solar "constant", close but not exact. Regardless, it will be difficult to measure the global temperature very accurately.

This is one of the main reasons I don't trust models, the sun is never constant energy source.  It changes daily, and then you have the maunder minimum, which is a supposed 11 year cycle of minimum sun activity.  I think there are more questions than definite answers.  And one that I wouldn't send us back to the dark ages on a maybe.

[Lihu]

[QUOTE name="jsgolfer" url="/t/83054/which-president-candidate-fits-you/60_30#post_1169203"]   No I have no idea if the temperature has risen, because I do't think we can accurately determine what that should be.  It would have to be a range at best, but what that is I don't believe anyone knows.  There isn't a single temperature that the world needs to be for us to survive.  The climate always changes, that is a fact, whether it's man-made or not is up to debate, the science isn't settled no matte what any climate scientist says. [/QUOTE] George Carlin had a great routine on global warming, the environment and human arrogance. [URL=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EjmtSkl53h4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EjmtSkl53h4[/URL]

"Plastic" is the new "42" :-D

[dkolo]

Maybe because they were paid grant money to reach the conclusion those who control the grant money wanted them to.

I know some of you like to think science is this pure and beyond corruption but that's a fallacy, with enough money you can find plenty of scientists to manipulate the numbers however you want them to.

I'm not saying this is the case with global warming but let's not pretend it's not possible.

This was what happened with the petroleum lobby vis -a-vis lead poisoning and coming up with lousy science to cultivate doubt as to the causal link between leaded gas and toxic health effects, despite overwhelming evidence in support of such a link. The parallels to what is happening today with respect to the purported debate over fossil fuels and climate change are extraordinary.

[Chilli Dipper]

Never the optimist I take it?   Societal collapse, seriously?  Do you really think that the world is going to end?  I trust that human ingenuity will figure out whatever it is we will have to do.

I believe we can achieve independence from fossil fuels within my lifetime - before we need it - if we want to make the effort. What's stopping us from putting in the work now, instead of just hoping someone will figure it out before the lights go out?

[dkolo]

This is one of the main reasons I don't trust models, the sun is never constant energy source.  It changes daily, and then you have the maunder minimum, which is a supposed 11 year cycle of minimum sun activity.  I think there are more questions than definite answers.  And one that I wouldn't send us back to the dark ages on a maybe.

The solar cycle hypothesis was the one I believed when it was bandied about in the mid-2000s. It predicted significant cooling by now, and that hasn't been borne out.

The Maunder Minimum was a particularly notable period of solar inactivity, not the term for the recurring nadir of the solar cycle.

In any event, I came across this interactive chart a few weeks ago that attempts to visualize the effects of different variables on temperatures over time. I found it interesting and easily digestible

http://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2015-whats-warming-the-world/

[ryan772]

There is simply too much evidence of rising temperature that's causing havoc globally.   You may insist that is not a man made problem but you can't deny the global temperature has gone up enough to cause many issues globally.   Many lives are forever changed whether it's fishermen who can no longer fish for the same fishes or people living in Marshall Islands.

you realize that temperatures are much higher in large part due to roads being made of blacktops and all the appliances that are being used? If you measure the temperature in a major city then outside the city temperatures are going to be 3-4 degrees cooler. Another issue they talk about is icebergs. Only 10% of all ice bergs are documented and tracked. While many of them are melting, many are growing colder. The biggest reason for many of the global warming issues are caused by chopping down trees. A perfect example of trying to control the enviornment is yellowstone park. We kicked out the indians cause they hunted and made controlled fires. Turns out when. The indians werent there to regulate animal population and tree growth( many trees need fire to cause their seeds to grow) many of the animal populations went out of control. Wolves began to grow too plentiful so we started killing off wolves. Then the small animal population went of control like rabbits so we started killing them. So on and so forth to where there is almost no animals left in yellowstone park. Scientist dont have all the answers.

[ryan772]

read it, great read.

ive read all his books i really like the "non fiction" ones like 5 patients. Reallys shows whats happened in the hospitals over the last 100 years.

[dkolo]

you realize that temperatures are much higher in large part due to roads being made of blacktops and all the appliances that are being used? If you measure the temperature in a major city then outside the city temperatures are going to be 3-4 degrees cooler. Another issue they talk about is icebergs. Only 10% of all ice bergs are documented and tracked. While many of them are melting, many are growing colder. The biggest reason for many of the global warming issues are caused by chopping down trees. A perfect example of trying to control the enviornment is yellowstone park. We kicked out the indians cause they hunted and made controlled fires. Turns out when. The indians werent there to regulate animal population and tree growth( many trees need fire to cause their seeds to grow) many of the animal populations went out of control. Wolves began to grow too plentiful so we started killing off wolves. Then the small animal population went of control like rabbits so we started killing them. So on and so forth to where there is almost no animals left in yellowstone park. Scientist dont have all the answers.

There's a lot here that is kind of neither here nor there. Yes, climate modeling is complicated but the underlying science behind it isn't. Greenhouse gases in a closed system cause temperatures in that system to rise faster than in one without it. There's significantly more carbon dioxide in the atmosphere than during the pre-Industrial period. There's more of the stuff that causes the Earth to get warmer and we're adding more constantly. It's straightforward on that level. How that will impact the world is beyond my ken, but there's a clear causal relationship.