Swing Science

[KnightSlammer]

Hi everyone, I'm new to the forums and I have an odd question. I used to be a collegiate baseball player, I'm 6'3" around 190lbs and could generate around 87 mph bat swing. I recently got into the game of golf and I'm slicing off the drive like crazy. My father in law thinks it's because due to baseball I have an outside-in swing like I'm trying to keep my hands inside the ball. I've never been fitted for clubs and I'm currently using a hand me down Callaway Big Bertha Diablo 10-degree loft with an Aldila DVS R-flex 65 gram graphite shaft. Now after a few rounds and 80 hours on the driving range, I'm still slicing and so I got frustrated one time and Happy Gilmore'd the ball and amazing no slice. Tee'd it up again and again no slice. I hit a large bucket of balls, around 80, and not one sliced. I've searched the forums about the Gilmore swing and know that it's legal but I more concerned with what I'm doing in that swing versus my normal that prevents the slice. My normal swing is pretty much based on Johnny Miller's fundamentals video with my own natural feel. The Happy Gilmore swing I stand around 10-feet behind the ball and 12-feet to the left. I take two steps leading with my right and then a crow hop, planting my right foot about 4-feet behind the ball. My left foot lands with the ball just outside my foot. On impact theres about 3 feet between my hips and the plane of the ball. My initial thoughts are that the swing forces me to reach for the ball thereby correcting the outside-in swing but when I increasethe distance between me and the ball in my normal swing that doesn't seem to have any effect. I've also tried to move the ball further outside my left foot when I address it but that too has no effect. Without access to some highspeed filmography, I'm afraid I'm at a loss. I was hoping that someone with many years of experience in this game might have some insight to what I'm doing in my Happy Gilmore swing that allows me to hit the ball straight. Thanks!! Edit: I don't feel anything different in my wrists between the two swings. No additional hitching between one swing versus the other or at least I think based on feel. Edit 2: If I get some time after work, I'll have my wife video me executing both swings for ya'lls review.

[saevel25]

  KnightSlammer said:

Hi everyone,

I'm new to the forums and I have an odd question. I used to be a collegiate baseball player, I'm 6'3" around 190lbs and could generate around 87 mph bat swing. I recently got into the game of golf and I'm slicing off the drive like crazy.

My father in law thinks it's because due to baseball I have an outside-in swing like I'm trying to keep my hands inside the ball. I've never been fitted for clubs and I'm currently using a hand me down Callaway Big Bertha Diablo 10-degree loft with an Aldila DVS R-flex 65 gram graphite shaft.

Without access to some highspeed filmography, I'm afraid I'm at a loss. I was hoping that someone with many years of experience in this game might have some insight to what I'm doing in my Happy Gilmore swing that allows me to hit the ball straight.

Thanks!!

First, Welcome to The SandTrap. Always happy to see another person bitten by the golfing bug ;)

As for your question.

A slice is created by a large difference in face angle to swing path, that being the face is open. What confuses most people is that the ball usually starts left and slices right. By the ball flight laws, the ball starts where the face points (it's more like 80-95% depending on the club). This means that a slice is usually caused by a very outside to in swing path, with a closed clubface to the target line. Given you could hit a slice with the ball starting straight or towards the right. Still the swing path is going to be going extremely outside to in. It is very very rare to see a golfer hit a push slice. It's just very hard to get the clubface that open at impact with an inside to out swing path.

What causes the outside to in swing path, that depends on the golfer. Its hard to say what the difference is between your normal swing versus the HG-swing.

I would say invest in a camera so you can post some video on this forum, or find a very good instructor to help you out. Here are some threads on the 5 keys to the golf swing and how to hit a driver.

[shalabe]

@KnightSlammer , sorry for the quick post...I believe there are two big hurdles for good baseball hitters to overcome when they transition to golf. The first and easiest is related to the hand position when contact is made. In baseball you make contact before the wrists start to roll over which translates to a very open club face. The second hurdle is that good hitters swing over the plan, i.e. they keep the bat head above their hands during the early/mid part of the swing and do not show the knob until much later (inside, down and through the zone). It might be easier to think of what bad hitters do (pitchers?) - they drop the bat head (show the knob early) and drag the head through the zone - that's a better move for golf.

And - do what @saevel25 suggested...

[chspeed]

  saevel25 said:

It is very very rare to see a golfer hit a push slice. It's just very hard to get the clubface that open at impact with an inside to out swing path.

A little off-topic: Please correct me if I'm wrong, but a push slice is actually very common, just ask my driver . The push part is caused by the open clubface, the slice is caused by a swing path that is left of the clubface angle (for a righty).

[saevel25]

  chspeed said:

A little off-topic: Please correct me if I'm wrong, but a push slice is actually very common, just ask my driver. The push part is caused by the open clubface, the slice is caused by a swing path that is left of the clubface angle (for a righty).

Close your clubface a tad and hit a push :p

[iacas]

  chspeed said:

A little off-topic: Please correct me if I'm wrong, but a push slice is actually very common, just ask my driver. The push part is caused by the open clubface, the slice is caused by a swing path that is left of the clubface angle (for a righty).

I don't think a push-slice is very common. You almost never see it among golfers who have been playing for awhile. Most golfers figure out how to at least start the ball far enough left that the slice works most of the time/some of the time.

[Bileyerheid]

  saevel25 said:

a slice is usually caused by a very outside to in swing path, with a closed clubface to the target line.

Huh! Closed club face creating a slice?

I would suggest that slicing a ball can be carried out from any path. The deciding factor would be whether the club face was open to that path.

[Lihu]

  Bileyerheid said:

I would suggest that slicing a ball can be carried out from any path. The deciding factor would be whether the club face was open to that path.

Couldn't it be also be a push issue rather than a slice, whereas the slice could depend more upon path?

[Bileyerheid]

  Lihu said:

Couldn't it be also be a push issue rather than a slice, whereas the slice could depend more upon path?

I visualise a push being created with a square face to an in to out path. A closed face to that path would create a hook spin and an open face to that path would create a slice spin. ???

[Lihu]

  Bileyerheid said:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lihu

Couldn't it be also be a push issue rather than a slice, whereas the slice could depend more upon path?

I visualise a push being created with a square face to an in to out path. A closed face to that path would create a hook spin and an open face to that path would create a slice spin. ???

I'm just starting to attempt to understand the ball flight laws, this is one of those situations where it's not all that clear to me. Thanks for the thoughts. . .

Here's the stuff I'm looking at: http://thesandtrap.com/t/56453/ball-flight-laws-and-misinformation

[mvmac]

  Bileyerheid said:

Huh! Closed club face creating a slice?

I would suggest that slicing a ball can be carried out from any path. The deciding factor would be whether the club face was open to that path.

@saevel25 said closed (left) of the target, not closed to the path. Yes you could slice it with any path but slicers typically have a leftward pointing face at impact because they hit a pull fade/slice. They might have the face 3-4 ° left with a path 7-8 ° left. Ball starts where the face is pointed and curves away from the path.

[Bileyerheid]

  mvmac said:

@saevel25 said closed (left) of the target, not closed to the path. Yes you could slice it with any path but slicers typically have a leftward pointing face at impact because they hit a pull fade/slice. They might have the face 3-4° left with a path 7-8° left. Ball starts where the face is pointed and curves away from the path.

Yes, after reading a few more topics on this site, I now understand that you are all referring to face relative to target and not path. I personally find this a little confusing but will be careful to do the math before tutting at another post. Sorry.

BTW, slicers have problems with path correction because they've been hitting balls with an open face for so long that changing their path just worsens their results. I would however tell them that a pull fade has two faults that should be resolved.

[mvmac]

  Bileyerheid said:

Yes, after reading a few more topics on this site, I now understand that you are all referring to face relative to target and not path. I personally find this a little confusing but will be careful to do the math before tutting at another post. Sorry.

No worries. Just keep it simple and remember that the primary factor in the ball's start line is the face. So if I hit a draw that started right of the target, the face was right of the target and the path was further right of the face (closed to the path). Let's say face was 2 right and path was 4. [quote name="Bileyerheid" url="/t/83067/swing-science#post_1166323"] BTW, slicers have problems with path correction because they've been hitting balls with an open face for so long that changing their path just worsens their results. I would however tell them that a pull fade has two faults that should be resolved. [/quote] I'd say slicers have a path problem because swinging down and across is the only way they "know" how to try and hit the ball first. Doesn't mean they can't change it, they just have to be taught how. Typically the pull slicer's priority is changing the path. As the path improves, the face generally starts to point straighter/more rightward. They'll figure it out, just like they figured out how to have the face left at impact to compensate for the ball curving left to right.