Rushing Because of Faster Players Behind

[newtogolf]

We were walking, carrying our bags, which included several long stretches between holes that took a few min to walk.

My point is that an enjoyable round of golf doesn't have to involve dealing with slow, or fast, players. This course solved that by setting expectations.

It seems as though everyone is in such a hurry all the time, they want to golf, but they want to minimize the time commitment. I get it.

But this particular course has set expectations differently. You don't show up expecting to tee off early and squeeze a round in in three hours. The expectation is you will tee off exactly on time, make the turn at 2:15 and finish at 4:30. Clearly it works as it is jam packed for premium $ in a blue collar town. There is a certain draw to slowing down and treating the game as an escape from our busy lives, yet most people treat it just like a busy supermarket, jockeying for the shortest line to save a few minutes.

The beauty comes from zoning out distractions and being completely engrossed in your game. That's where I find the greatest enjoyment. That's why I play. Turning around and seeing a single in a cart waiting for me at every hole is a break from that, a distraction.

The 4:30 time is like the minimum speed limit on a highway.  It represents the worst case time for a group of 3 or 4, not the time one should strive to play in.  If there's space in between you and the group in front of you, you're playing too slow.

[RGoosen]

- In a perfect world everyone on this site has his or her ideal pace for "them". - For me every round as a single would be around 2:30, twosome 3hr, threesome 3:20, foursome 3:40. A little faster than would be okay too. - I have ADD and get very anxious when pace goes beyond 4 hours. I keep it to myself on the course on the course b/c that is the right thing to do. If someone is faster than me then more power to them...I let them play through (rarely run into this unless I am paired w/ someone slow) - Even though sometimes we run into buttholes that can't keep up with the group in front and then won't let people through, I try to let the Marshall handle it to see if he can politely ask them to let us through to avoid confrontation. - I would like to think that 90% of serious golfers have proper etiquette about staying with the group in front and letting faster players through. Sadly the other 10% can occasionally ruin things for everyone else. - Sometimes it is better to take a deep breath and tell yourself "will it really matter 6 months from now whether my current round goes at my ideal pace." Somehow life goes on anyway despite my internal anxiety/stress/impatience.

[Fourputt]

Quote:

Originally Posted by David in FL

If it took you 4:30, as a two-some, with no one holding you up, and the course not only accepts it, but actively promotes it, you've answered the question for me.

I play golf to play golf. Not for the view, or to commune with nature. I enjoy a beautiful, pristine course as much as the next guy, but I'm still there for the golf.

Agree completely with both points.

I don't see how it is a problem to expect a 4:30 round of golf. The course wants everyone who comes to expect and keep a 4:30 pace. As this thread would indicate, people get just as frustrated being "pressed" by fast golfers as they do by being held up by slow golfers. This course eliminates both problems by expecting and enforcing a 4:30 pace. There is no expectation that you will finish faster, but also a near guarantee that it won't take longer. You pay good money and get to play a fun, challenging course without any worries.

It takes 4:30 to play because it is challenging and requires a great deal of strategy, not because we are enjoying the view. The greens are lightning fast and we take our time to play them well and line up putts. My brother and I played ready golf and don't waste time and it still took 4:30.

The assumption is that if 4:30 is course policy for a foursome, then a smaller group should be able to play faster than that if they have an open course in front of them.  A twosome taking 4:30 on any open course is dawdling.

[Mac62]

To me, it's as simple as this:  If there are open holes in front of you (either because you're playing slow or because the course happens to be wide open), let faster players through.  If the course is packed, you're directly behind the group ahead and there's nowhere to go, the faster golfers need to have some patience.  I don't see why either of those is difficult - that's just common sense and common courtesy (neither of which are apparently so 'common' these days, unfortunately).

[ryan772]

I Rarely pay any attention to the people behind me except to see if they are playing faster and should be let through(whether they are a 1 or 4some). If its a par 5 and theres nowhere to go ahead of me ill usually just drive over to them while im waiting and either offer to let them join(if theres space) or tell them theres nowhere to go ahead and forget about them and enjoy my round and keep up with the group in front.

[Hatchman]

This thread started with a description of events we may have lost sight of. Most agree if clear ahead let the 90% of those who play faster than a full course 4 some posting pass if possible. Otherwise, descriptors like dawdling, slow play, slow pokes, speeders, a-holes, jerks, will continue. [quote name="CR McDivot" url="/t/83251/rushing-because-of-faster-players-behind#post_1169222"]Played 18 today walking as a single. Teed at 11:30 am and finished at 3:02 pm for a total of 3:32 on a course that lists playing time at 4:30. Generally had a good round with one single directly ahead for 9, and a twosome ahead of him for 9. Even though the twosome was a might inexperienced they played at a decent pace leaving us ahead of pace through the front. DECENT PACE? When I reached the tee at 10, I could see a clear green in front, and no one for 4 holes behind. By 12 I caught sight of a twosome in a cart on the 11 green, and when I teed on 13 they were on the second shot of the par 5 twelfth. CLEAR GREEN IN FRONT NO ONE FOR 4 HOLES BEHIND. I stepped up my pace, and cleared every green before the twosome behind hit tee shots, but by the time I was on the par four 18 green the speedsters hit into me! STEPPED UP PACE TO AVOID SPEEDSTERS. Now I was a bit perturbed. I had felt rushed since 13 and dropped a good 3 or 4 strokes through 18 because of this, even though I was NOT anywhere near behind pace . And then the speed golfers hit into me before I cleared the green on the last hole of the round. FELT PERTURB. AND RUSHED SINCE 13. NOT BEHIND PACE.. I cleared the green and when the young (teen to twenty something) culprit came towards his putt I approached and politely explained that I had played nearly an hour ahead of pace and did not appreciate being hit into. I noted that etiquette is also a part of the game. CULPRIT, THE GUILTY PARTY. APPROACHED THE GUILTY PARTY EXPLAINED PACE WAS 1 HOUR FASTER THAN .... NOT SURE WHAT. LECTURE ON ETIQUETTE. The young fellow was very polite and apologetic and we parted as gentlemen, but I am convinced that the concept of "Speed Golf" is even more detrimental to the spirit of the game than slow play! CONVINCED THEY PLAYED SPEED GOLF DETRIMENTAL TO THE SPIRIT OF GOLF...MORE THAN SLOW PLAY...THE 10%. Good etiquette is basically consideration of your fellows on the course. Play at a proper pace and NEVER hit into another player especially if you are only trying to set a land speed record! AGREE FIRST PART. REMEMBER THE 90/10 HOWEVER. SECOND PART SUSPECT BASED ON ABOVE HOLE 18 STATEMENT AND LAND SPEED RECORD ... 1 HOUR FASTER. Rant over, it's my own fault I felt rushed. Should have just played my own (ahead of pace) round and let the rabbits rant about the slow old man instead. :whistle:   FELT RUSHED EVEN THOUGH NO ONE FOR 4 HOLES?? RABBITS, RANT, AND OLD MAN CONNOTATION PROBABLY UNNECESSARY. [/quote]

[David in FL]

I don't see how it is a problem...There is no expectation that you will finish faster, but also a near guarantee that it won't take longer.

Sorry, but this is wrong. When the first group of the day plays at 4:30, every group behind them is relegated to that pace as their absolute minimum. . I can almost guarantee, that the pace of play deteriorated to over 5 hours for groups teeing off an hour or so later than you. [quote name="Braivo" url="/t/83251/rushing-because-of-faster-players-behind/378#post_1181410"]  My brother and I played ready golf and don't waste time and it still took 4:30.  [/quote] Proof that slow players don't generally even know that they're slow. That's why it's up to the course to set appropriate pace of play standards and enforce them. Since this course won't, that's exactly why I wouldn't play there. There are plenty of challenging, nice courses out there to choose from that understand that pace of play is one of the top complaints in golf today, and know that their continued livelihood depends on managing it. With few exceptions, those are the courses that get my business. On the flip side, I do understand that there are people who enjoy a slower pace, and if you can find a course that caters to that, than I'm happy for you. :beer:

[turtleback]

Quote:

Originally Posted by k-troop

Or maybe he wants to keep loose, and while he's standing over that particular shot he wants to rehearse the swing for that shot. Also he wants to be ready to play when the green is clear.

If you or anyone else is being "disrupted" in the scenario you describe (and this applies to many scenarios described in this thread) it's because you are choosing to interpret someone else's perfectly innocent and reasonable actions as some personal affront.

From the perspective of the dude making practice swings, everything isn't about you.

Whatever, I get it. The faster player has no need to show any courtesy to his fellow players on the golf course they are sharing. Full stop.

Quote:

Originally Posted by k-troop

No we're talking about you perceiving someone taking practice swings during a round of golf as some rude attack on you.

Then you didn't read the thread and just jumped in with a comment about something nobody was talking about.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pretzel

No, he didn't do that. He was talking directly to you about your perceived offense when someone is taking practice swings.

I take practice swings all the time. I don't care if you feel rushed because that's a problem with you, not a problem with my etiquette. I'm allowed to practice my swing whenever, and it doesn't mean I'm trying to get you to go any faster.

Whatever, I get it. The slower player has no need to show any courtesy to his fellow players on the golf course they are sharing. Full stop. The faster player isn't even allowed to practice before he hits his ball without taking flak for it from the slower player ahead.

If you insist on being so hypersensitive to the tiniest infraction against your need to speed around the course. Don't wonder why people get sick of impatient players zipping through the course without regard for others.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lihu

This makes no sense whatsoever? How does someone taking practice swings disrupt you on the green?

It doesn't. I just says to me that the guy wants to get to playing. He is too impatient to wait for us to hole our putts to start his practice swings. I didn't say it disrupts me. I say when I see it, I figure he is one of these guys who has no patience or the grace to share something like a golf course with others and the sooner he is out of my sight, the better. So let him though and bother the group that is teeing off.

Maybe you guys should look up "impatient" in the dictionary.

Moppy you have now become unbearable. You are oblivious to anyone but yourself. People are allowed to take practice swings. You are being ridiculous and extremely selfish as well as authoritarian believing everyone has to abide by your standards or they are rude.

I'm not just going to sit down until you putt out and I am one of the most patient golfers you will ever meet.

Exactly.  Every single one of his responses above is basically dishonest as he rewords what someone says to make it say something they never said.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duff McGee

Moppy you have now become unbearable. You are oblivious to anyone but yourself. People are allowed to take practice swings. You are being ridiculous and extremely selfish as well as authoritarian believing everyone has to abide by your standards or they are rude.

I'm not just going to sit down until you putt out and I am one of the most patient golfers you will ever meet.

LOL. ROTFLMAO

I never ever ever said nobody was allowed to take practice swings, I said that when I am on the green, and a group is on the next tee, and a single driving has caught up to me and starts taking practice  swings because he is impatient, you know, eager to play, like the definition says, I figure I should let him play though and get him out of my sight ASAP, I am sure he will be zipped off the next tee before I get there, bumping up against the next group, cursing that every group on the course cannot play at the pace of a single riding and grumbling about slow play because some people like to walk when they play golf.

A mind-reader.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duff McGee

I just bolded a sentence that disproves your claim.

OK, why don't you print it out and paste it to the fridge for mommy to read. Maybe she will give you a pat on the head, but what you bolded doesn't prove anything.

And then he plays the nasty card.

[Dave2512]

I doubt the impatient single situation comes up much. Don't see many singles out on a full course. The pro shop will find a short group to place them with. When courses are that busy typically wouldn't be one open time where a single could be alone. The only time I experience anything like Moppy describes is late in the day blazing through the front and catching a bunch of foursomes on the back that started earlier in the day. The only reason there was the initial gap is it's late enough in the day a foursome wouldn't have time to finish 18. If there are any on the front they are playing 9 and there is space between anyone out there.

[Jeremie Boop]

If you're quick, a par-5 works just as well.

Par 5s are my favorite to be let through, because of my length I'm usually far enough out after my drive that they can start playing again almost right away. If not I'm almost always off the green before they finish hitting their second shots.

I think this is just perception and may be directly related to how well the faster golfer is playing. It may seem like they are pushing you if they hit a good drive on a short par four and you look back and they are at their ball planning the next shot while you are putting. They may just want to continue what may be their best round of the week or whatever. Why should they have to molly coddle the groups ahead if they are slower and there is room to move.

Yesterday I was behind a group and after I hit my drive I'd park my cart next to my ball and walk over to the rough/trees and look for balls so that they'd know I wasn't trying to push them or be let through. Unfortunately that tactic didn't work out too well from 8-12 because there wasn't really anywhere for me to waste time looking around. I have to keep active between shots or I tend to tighten up or something and start struggling.

It doesn't. I just says to me that the guy wants to get to playing. He is too impatient to wait for us to hole our putts to start his practice swings. I didn't say it disrupts me. I say when I see it, I figure he is one of these guys who has no patience or the grace to share something like a golf course with others and the sooner he is out of my sight, the better. So let him though and bother the group that is teeing off.

Maybe you guys should look up "impatient" in the dictionary.

Or, maybe he's like me and needs/likes to keep loose? Taking practice swings doesn't necessarily indicate impatience. Yelling, pacing, making aggressive gestures towards the people being waited on, those would indicate impatience.

I've started skipping around people when it's open in front and they don't let me play through. I'll jump to the next tee, play that hole and the next, drive back to the one I skipped finish that and make it back to the next hole I didn't play. If there's nowhere to go in front of them I try to keep loose by practicing chipping/putting/ moving back a decent way and hit short approach shots.

The thing is it wasn't an empty course and there wasn't any problem until they started with the lessons on the back 9.  They opened up a hole and a half gap by the time they got to #13, then proceeded to continue to screw around for the next 6 holes.  I played again today, same full (mostly foursomes with a few threesomes) course in 4 hours flat - very little waiting, mostly on a couple of par 5 holes that are reachable for some players.

I've seen the same 5 some on different days where the 5th guy was getting on the course lessons, hitting 3-5 balls from each spot. Luckily I only got stuck behind them one time. While I can appreciate people wanting to learn the game/teach their friends, I think it's best to start out at a driving range until they can at least reliably hit the ball. And when they first start playing at the course keeping it to 9 hole rounds in the evening when it's not so busy so they can take their time without risking impacting other's rounds. I find it strange that one of the guys complained about being pushed when they were out of position.

[SavvySwede]

Quote:

Originally Posted by SavvySwede

If there wasn't anyone in front holding you up then you definitely wasted time. The pace of play listed on the card is for a foursome on a busy weekend or a large outing.

We were walking, carrying our bags, which included several long stretches between holes that took a few min to walk.

My point is that an enjoyable round of golf doesn't have to involve dealing with slow, or fast, players. This course solved that by setting expectations.

It seems as though everyone is in such a hurry all the time, they want to golf, but they want to minimize the time commitment. I get it.

But this particular course has set expectations differently. You don't show up expecting to tee off early and squeeze a round in in three hours. The expectation is you will tee off exactly on time, make the turn at 2:15 and finish at 4:30. Clearly it works as it is jam packed for premium $ in a blue collar town. There is a certain draw to slowing down and treating the game as an escape from our busy lives, yet most people treat it just like a busy supermarket, jockeying for the shortest line to save a few minutes.

The beauty comes from zoning out distractions and being completely engrossed in your game. That's where I find the greatest enjoyment. That's why I play. Turning around and seeing a single in a cart waiting for me at every hole is a break from that, a distraction.

Dude, they only reason they set the pace at 4:30 is because golf courses have mostly given up on regulating pace of play. The management put that figure on the card so they have `an easy out for when people complain.  The golf culture here is ruined by entitled dawdlers. Look in this article http://www.businessinsider.com/golf-in-scotland-2013-7

"It's not just the style of golf, but the pace of play that's appealing, as well.

Muirfield is famous for its "two and a half, two and a half, two and a half," which is a two and half hour round of golf followed by a two and a half hour round of lunch followed by a two and half hour round of golf."

more examples http://www.theindependentgolfer.com/a001offerings/a0008PaceOfPlay.html

http://www.golfdigest.com/blogs/the-loop/2015/07/what-americans-can-learn-from.html

"Pace of play

There are very few, if any, practice swings in Scotland. You find your ball, you hit it.

If you’re playing partner’s on the right side of the fairway and you’re on the left, you should be at your ball, not standing next to him.

When someone else is putting, you should be looking at your own line, ready to putt as soon as he or she is finished.

We’ve all seen players who try eight or nine practice swings, study the green like they’re at the U.S. Open or sit in the cart next to their buddy’s stance instead of hovering over their own shot. It’s why weekend rounds in the States routinely take five to six hours.

Eighteen holes, at maximum, should take four hours. Often in Scotland, they hover around three. If the sport wants to grow, it shouldn’t worry about FootGolf or six-hole rounds. The focus needs to be on speeding people up. Attention spans are shorter than ever, and the game needs to adjust accordingly. "

If you're not part of the solution, you are part of the problem.

[Golfingdad]

Just finished 18 as a foursome riding, not feeling rushed and waiting on several holes. It's 10:09 right now, so we finished at about 10:04 or so and our tee time was 6:22 (I didn't notice exactly what time we teed off but it was close to on time)

[RGoosen]

^ Maybe I could pack up and move to Scotland! :) Not sure my wife would entertain that idea. I don't want to single anyone out, but someone actually complained about a golfer in the group behind him taking practice swings?!?!? That has to be one of the funniest bizarre complaints I have ever heard. They have to jerking our chain. No one is that thin skined. Can you imagine someone calling in the morning drive radio show and complining about the group behind them taking practice swings. :)

[Dave2512]

I get the hairy eyeball all the time on par 4's. But I am no being overly aggressive so much as I have to be at my ball to stay out of the way of the group behind. If I wasn't right behind the folk on the green I'd be sitting idle halfway between tee and my ball driving the people behind nuts. That's what golf is, you hit the ball and move to it. But I want to score well. I can't be concerned with the group ahead if I am a short iron away from the green. Not going to wait for the green to clear before teeing off.

[Jeremie Boop]

I get the hairy eyeball all the time on par 4's. But I am no being overly aggressive so much as I have to be at my ball to stay out of the way of the group behind. If I wasn't right behind the folk on the green I'd be sitting idle halfway between tee and my ball driving the people behind nuts. That's what golf is, you hit the ball and move to it.

But I want to score well. I can't be concerned with the group ahead if I am a short iron away from the green. Not going to wait for the green to clear before teeing off.

I sometimes feel bad when I'm having a good day with the driver because with the shorter par 4s around here *around 340-360* I'm typically less than 100 away from the green and sometimes 30 or less if I cut the corner and/or catch one really well and get good roll out. I'm starting to think I may drop back to hitting 5 wood from the tee on busy days just to give that little extra buffer space and so that I can work on hitting something beside wedges. That and I really need to get more comfortable using a fairway wood anyway.

[Dave2512]

I sometimes feel bad when I'm having a good day with the driver because with the shorter par 4s around here *around 340-360* I'm typically less than 100 away from the green and sometimes 30 or less if I cut the corner and/or catch one really well and get good roll out. I'm starting to think I may drop back to hitting 5 wood from the tee on busy days just to give that little extra buffer space and so that I can work on hitting something beside wedges. That and I really need to get more comfortable using a fairway wood anyway.

My experience is many short par 4's don't set up well for driver unless they are very vanilla and honestly I don't enjoy courses like that. Even then a well struck 4i is enough to get well within 100 yard marker on some. Just last night I decided to hit thriver (12.5* 43" 280cc club) on a 317 par 4 and I almost never do. I usually err on the side of caution because anything but a near perfect drive ends up in trouble. The fairway slopes hard right to a sizable pond. If it doesn't hug the left side it's wet. I actually try to intentionally miss the fairway left to let the rough keep it from running down the slope. Thankfully nobody was on the green because my ball was inside the markers directing carts away from the green about 20 yards out. That's close enough to be concerned it could be considered hitting into people IMO.

[Duff McGee]

Yeah turtleback, he is delusional. Everything he says is a hyperbole laced straw man and completely ridiculous.

[Dave2512]

Besides who stands around on the green watching the people behind. I don't even watch the other people in my group much. I am somewhere behind my marker if I can be thinking about my putt. When it's my turn ball down marker up and it's go time. More fast play veteran moves. I won't dawdle after I finish either. Putter in bag and pedal to the metal to the next tee to write down score.