Rushing Because of Faster Players Behind

[Fourputt]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeremie Boop

...Your constant inflammatory comments and use of "KMA" says more about your horrible attitude than anything said by anyone else in this entire thread...

Please tell me where I have delayed anyone else's round.

I don't think that anyone really said that you slowed anyone down (if they did then they misread what you posted), it's not your pace but your attitude that is being hammered at the moment.  Your statement that you feel that since you are playing at a good pace for you, anyone who wants to go faster can KYA.  That is an attitude that just screams for rebuttal.

[Jeremie Boop]

If I delayed no ones round, why are you bitchin?

I've no clue what you are talking about. My main complaint in this whole scenario is your horrible attitude. Telling people to "KMA" because of your perceived notion that people who play at a faster pace think we own the course when we only expect others to follow course etiquette and let us through if there happens to be room ahead. I've not once "bitched" about anything in this thread.

[CR McDivot]

And My Main Complaint is that you folks seem to think that you have the right to run over anybody that does not play as fast and carelessly as you, regardless of the fact that they schedule their tee time to avoid your crazy tail - and allow you to pass even when you act like a donkey with a nosefull of jenny!

[RGoosen]

As all can see, anyone playing 18 in more than 3:00 is a slackard. Course pace be damned. Scheduling be damned. Conditions be damned. Seniors or juniors be damned. We get it, the course belongs to the fastest. All others be damned! Pardon my French, but KMA! I'm damned glad those who hold this philosophy are not prevalent on my home course. Stay home where they put up with your arrogant tails! :pound:

How does name calling and exaggerating make your points more valid. Just about every golf survey I have seen says slow play is the #1 complaint among golfers. One slow or slower group cam back up an entire course. I tee off early b/c I enjoy playing fast. If I tee off after 9am on a weekend then I can't expect to play faster than the recommended max finish time. I don't understand what is so offensive about being passed by a another group. It is called courtesy and being gentlemanly is something we should strive for. Blocking someone faster, backing up the course, calling people names/insults are not admirable qualities. The courteous driver doesn't driver slower than cars behind them even if they are traveling at 50 mph in a 40 mph speed zone. Why? Could be b/c it is the right thing to do or they don't want to be a victim of road rage. I see striking similarities to golfers that will tee off in the early hours and expect everyone behind them to play at their pace b/c they have a right to play at a full 4:30 pace. This is what most people refer to the issue with golf and pace of play. 1) golfers are 90% of the problem with slow play 2) not staying with the group ahead combined with not letting a faster group go by is the primary problem 3) attitude adjustment is necessary on both parties. IMO...faster players should be able to play fast within reason. We played this am as a foursome in 3:55 on a crowded course. Was not what we preferred but it was certainly acceptable. Slowers players should not be offended if someone pass them. Being stubborn and blaming them for being young, impatient, on meth, obnoxious, etc. or whatever deragotory term you want to use is counterproductive. We can choose to be part of the problem or part of the solution.

[CR McDivot]

We played this am as a foursome in 3:55 on a crowded course. ...

We can choose to be part of the problem or part of the solution.

Our preferred round is 3:30 to 4:00, Usually doable on a fairly uncrowded course. Definitely not doable on the weekend (4:15 to 5:00). But we do not whine, we schedule a better time or play as the conditions warrant.

Do you adapt or bitch? You can't play faster than the fully loaded course. Adapt and enjoy - or bitch and be miserable... your choice.

[RGoosen]

^ It appears you agree with me? Of course I don't complain if people are being couteous. No reasons for fast or slow groups to have extreme or unrealistic expectations.

[CR McDivot]

^

It appears you agree with me?

Of course I don't complain if people are being couteous. No reasons for fast or slow groups to have extreme or unrealistic expectations.

Agreed!

Courtesy is the mark of a gentleman, untoward expectations the realm of the uncouth!

[iacas]

But this particular course has set expectations differently. You don't show up expecting to tee off early and squeeze a round in in three hours. The expectation is you will tee off exactly on time, make the turn at 2:15 and finish at 4:30. Clearly it works as it is jam packed for premium $ in a blue collar town. There is a certain draw to slowing down and treating the game as an escape from our busy lives, yet most people treat it just like a busy supermarket, jockeying for the shortest line to save a few minutes.

Others have said it, but the published time par is more like a maximum. If you can play faster, cool. People should be able to expect that 4:30 is the longest it takes to play at a course with an expected pace of 4:30. People should also be able to expect that if they're playing faster and come up to a group that has open space in front that they'll be waived through when it is first possible.

As all can see, anyone playing 18 in more than 3:00 is a slackard. Course pace be damned. Scheduling be damned. Conditions be damned. Seniors or juniors be damned.

We get it, the course belongs to the fastest. All others be damned!

Pardon my French, but KMA!

I'm damned glad those who hold this philosophy are not prevalent on my home course. Stay home where they put up with your arrogant tails!

Nobody's said any of the things you just said. The only person behaving like a jerk is you.

Please tell me where I have delayed anyone else's round.

He never said that.

And My Main Complaint is that you folks seem to think that you have the right to run over anybody that does not play as fast and carelessly as you, regardless of the fact that they schedule their tee time to avoid your crazy tail - and allow you to pass even when you act like a donkey with a nosefull of jenny!

Faster players have the same right to play at their pace as you do, except at the extremes - slow players don't have the right to hold others up when there is space in front, and fast players don't have the right to expect to be allowed through when the course is full.

Courtesy is the mark of a gentleman, untoward expectations the realm of the uncouth!

Where in this thread have you displayed even the slightest bit of courtesy or gentlemanly behavior?

Why not just make your user title "GET OFF MY LAWN!" and be done with it? Gee whiz.

---

@Moppy and especially @CR McDivot , this shit isn't difficult. If a faster player (or group) is behind you and there are open space in front, you are expected to let them through at the first opportunity. If the course is full, you don't need to let them through, but you may want to consider it if their constant "practice swinging" frustrates and/or angers you.

Holy hell, guys. This is ****ing simple stuff to comprehend.

[Divotmaker77]

Late to the discussion, but I walk a lot and rarely run into issues.  General takes me about 3-3:30 to walk 18 at the course near me.  Some courses where I live are simply too difficult to walk and keep pace.  The only time I tend to feel rushed (and it is my fault because I hate holding people up) are the first few holes.  Even if nobody is at the teebox waiting on me I tend to get in rush so I can get ahead of anyone on carts.  Only event I had recently was being on the first tee and someone hit the green while I was putting.  He apologized as it was a Par 5 and his second shot was as pure for him as it gets (expected to be about 15 yards short of the green).  It happens.  After that, they kept their distance and I eventually got enough separation from them.

What I do not agree with are those who walk and want to hit multiple balls.  Sorry, I know we want to practice and all, but hitting multiple balls and having to walk to each one to retrieve just takes too much time.  If you are by yourself on a cart then go for it, but do not do it if you are walking.

Pace of play is a big problem.  One slow group can screw up an entire course.  That said, some folks are just in an extreme hurry to play a round.  I know folks who pride themselves on being done in less than 2:30 to 3 hours.  When I play with them, its not fun because they are in such a hurry that I do not have time to enjoy the round.  Its one thing to talk on your cell phone when you are supposed to hit or sit in the cart waiting on your partner to hit instead of walking to your ball, but its another speeding around a course like a maniac.  Its golf.  When you come to play learn tor relax a bit and enjoy being on the course.  If you get behind me, I will let you through.  Just do not intentionally hit into me or we will have a problem.

[Fourputt]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Divotmaker77

Late to the discussion, but I walk a lot and rarely run into issues.  General takes me about 3-3:30 to walk 18 at the course near me.  Some courses where I live are simply too difficult to walk and keep pace.  The only time I tend to feel rushed (and it is my fault because I hate holding people up) are the first few holes.  Even if nobody is at the teebox waiting on me I tend to get in rush so I can get ahead of anyone on carts.  Only event I had recently was being on the first tee and someone hit the green while I was putting.  He apologized as it was a Par 5 and his second shot was as pure for him as it gets (expected to be about 15 yards short of the green).  It happens.  After that, they kept their distance and I eventually got enough separation from them.

What I do not agree with are those who walk and want to hit multiple balls. Sorry, I know we want to practice and all, but hitting multiple balls and having to walk to each one to retrieve just takes too much time.  If you are by yourself on a cart then go for it, but do not do it if you are walking.

100% agree with the sentence I put in bold.  Unless the course is truly wide open, a walker playing two balls is unacceptable.  I've had a lone walker actually hold up a foursome until one of the guys I was with hollered at him.  There is nothing slower on a golf course than a walking player chasing two balls all over the course.

Quote:

Pace of play is a big problem.  One slow group can screw up an entire course.  That said, some folks are just in an extreme hurry to play a round.  I know folks who pride themselves on being done in less than 2:30 to 3 hours.  When I play with them, its not fun because they are in such a hurry that I do not have time to enjoy the round.  Its one thing to talk on your cell phone when you are supposed to hit or sit in the cart waiting on your partner to hit instead of walking to your ball, but its another speeding around a course like a maniac.  Its golf.  When you come to play learn tor relax a bit and enjoy being on the course.  If you get behind me, I will let you through.  Just do not intentionally hit into me or we will have a problem.

I agree here also - racing around trying to finish in under 3 hours for a foursome is not fun, and it's not realistic.  The guy above who posted that 2½ hour silliness about Muirfield - I've read comments from Scots who have the same sort of issues we have here with 4½ hour rounds.  Even on an old style Scottish links course with green and tee only 100 feet apart to minimize down time, 2½ hours is just stupid to expect.

3½ hours is, and always has been, an excellent pace for four walking players all playing their own balls by the rules - anything less is rare and exceptional... or exaggerated.  4 hours is a perfectly acceptable, although not speedy, pace.  4½ hours is unnecessarily slow if your group is not right on the tail of the group in front of you.  Beyond 4½ hours is indicative of a serious problem, either with course loading or with a lack of pace of play enforcement.

[Dave2512]

As usual out for my late Sat afternoon round alone I caught people on the back. It was nuts there was a twosome waiting on a twosome with a single behind them and me behind that single. Would have been difficult to get around them and apparently everyone too shy or unfriendly to pair up. I played 13-18 at a crawl and sucked it up because I was playing very well. I didn't want the focus to be finding a way around everyone or trying to play ranger so I waited. I ended up shooting 72 +1 on par 71 so you can imagine how little golf I played compared to the waiting.

[turtleback]

Yesterday I was behind a group and after I hit my drive I'd park my cart next to my ball and walk over to the rough/trees and look for balls so that they'd know I wasn't trying to push them or be let through. Unfortunately that tactic didn't work out too well from 8-12 because there wasn't really anywhere for me to waste time looking around. I have to keep active between shots or I tend to tighten up or something and start struggling.

If there is no one behind me, in that situation, I take advantage of the rule that says you can chip and putt on and around the green you just completed if you are not holding up play by doing so  The worst is when I'm caught between 2 foursomes.  If there is no room in front of the front one then there is nowhere to go and I just have to suck it up.

That has to be one of the funniest bizarre complaints I have ever heard. They have to jerking our chain. No one is that thin skined. Can you imagine someone calling in the morning drive radio show and complining about the group behind them taking practice swings. :)

It wasn't the practice swings, it was the (imagined) evil thoughts the practice swinger was having towards the guy on the green that bothered @Moppy .

As all can see, anyone playing 18 in more than 3:00 is a slackard. Course pace be damned. Scheduling be damned. Conditions be damned. Seniors or juniors be damned.

We get it, the course belongs to the fastest. All others be damned!

Pardon my French, but KMA!

I'm damned glad those who hold this philosophy are not prevalent on my home course. Stay home where they put up with your arrogant tails!

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrvFrShow

Parkinson's law is the adage that "work expands so as to fill the time available for its completion".

Good, let's see-

My threesome tee time 6:10. Delayed on #1 tee 15 minutes to allow maintenance to sweep #1 green. Tee off 6:25.

One threesome 8 minutes back from 6:10 (6:18). Ladies League 16 minutes back @ 6:26.

So maintenance set all back 15, but not really as we played quick on the first four (as did the threesome behind) to get the ladies off near their actual tee time. Let the threesome through at that point (ladies were on #2 fairway).

Played the rest of the round (no other groups between us and Ladies) a minimum of 2 full holes ahead.

Finished in 3:40, Ladies still 2 holes back, finished in 4:10. (Yeah I watched the lead group finish 18 from the parking lot at 10:40, 6:30 + 4:10 = 10:40 for the time challenged).

Yeah, we were slow and held the whole course up... my frickin' A!

After this thread do you really think anyone believes your little scenarios?  You haven't adequately explained all the logical holes in your original story and now we get a new story?

And My Main Complaint is that you folks seem to think that you have the right to run over anybody that does not play as fast and carelessly as you, regardless of the fact that they schedule their tee time to avoid your crazy tail - and allow you to pass even when you act like a donkey with a nosefull of jenny!

Courtesy is the mark of a gentleman, untoward expectations the realm of the uncouth!

And there goes my irony meter, exploding into 1000 pieces.

[Jeremie Boop]

If there is no one behind me, in that situation,  I take advantage of the rule that says you can chip and putt on and around the green you just completed if you are not holding up play by doing so  The worst is when I'm caught between 2 foursomes.  If there is no room in front of the front one then there is nowhere to go and I just have to suck it up.

I actually did work on those things a bit to kill some time, but that bores me quickly. Truth be told it's probably a much better use of the time so I can get better at bump and run chipping. I just need to learn to not get bored by it so quickly.

[Hatchman]

Well it looks like some good comments were posted while I was out this morning mapping my swing at the pool while watching golfers tee off on hole 10, a par 3. Either they didn't know it's difficulty or werent very accurate carrying it over the pond, 152/174/199 with four foursomes deep was a bit much. Maybe a quick hot dog stop first. Only a few balls made it on the green in the two hours we were there. One group tried to tee from the tips and really screwed up the pace. Plunk, plunk, OB. I threw one back across the pond towards the green that landed by the fence pool. So do you chalk this slow down up on the hole, experience or skill level of the golfers? Some of the golfers even waited by thier carts until the other one hit then walked back to the cart. No tournament going on, just Sunday golfers being golfers. That's why we now swim in the morning, and practice swings. Go LSW.

[Moppy]

Having been in the position you describe (single behind my group, backed up course, single taking practice swings), I disagree that humans have it "built into their DNA" to feel pressured in such a situation. It's merely you feeling pressured and that's nobody's fault but your own.

So I have repeatedly said that I would let the jerk who can't keep himself from taking practice swings at his ball while I am putting, play through, *even if* there is no open space in front of me. If he shouted out, that would be bad form, but apparently this guy needs a dozen or more practice swings or his game will fall apart, and yet he is the speediest guy on the course when he plays... Whatever. That right there says that you guys aren't serious. But as I said, I have repeatedly said that I would let you through to get you out of my life as soon as possible, on account of the fact that I do consider your aggressive activities rude, but that is not enough, is it?

Not only do I have to let you through, but I have to tug my forelock as you pass, bowing my head so as not to meet your royal gaze and accidentally lock eyes too?

Sorry guys, I will let you through, but nothing you can say is going to keep my from thinking you are a seven letter word that is a synonym for jerk.

And those of you that insist on playing as a single riding when the course is crowded but to maintain maximum pace, constantly pushing on the group in front of you, and then coming here to whine about your experience? Well go ahead and suffer through life thinking that you are right and all of the  other humans are the .....s.

And @Hatchman , I bet you really enjoy those rounds of golf where you are hitting into people "by accident" and getting into altercations all the time.

Here is an honest question, if taking practice swings at your ball if a group in front of you happens to be slow is not how you communicate to them that you think they are playing slow, how do you do it? What is next? Hitting into them? Ohhhh Nooooo! You would NEVER hit into anybody, right, got that. So what do you do? Do you start an altercation with them right off? How do you show your displeasure without getting into a verbal altercation? Or do you go right for confrontation, first sign that a group in front of you is slow?

I am just curious because I would like to know what actions a group behind me takes that I *should* interpret as signs they are getting impatient with my slow play.  And don't give me a lecture about the group in front of me, what if they are only half a hole ahead and we just completed a ball search and we expect to be right back on pace by the next green? But you are behind us, you see that half a hole space, that has been there for less than a hole of play, and you figure you should be playing there. How do you communicate to the group in front of you that you are getting impatient?

And if you say I should let you through if half a hole opens up even for a few minutes, is that how you play? Every time you lose a ball that you make an honest effort to find, you let the group behind you play through?

I am still laughing about you 'fast" players needed a dozen or two practice swings though. Seriously, do you imagine the flight of the ball too as you do it? Hold your position until the imaginary ball lands, is that why you need so much time for "practice swings" that you have to start your "routine" even before we hole the last putt and continue it as we replace the flag and walk off the green?

Just think about that for a minute. Seriously.

And don't come back with you are trying to keep pace with the group behind you, we have alread said there is no group behind you. You are a SINGLE PLAYING ALONE RIDING on a course full of three and foursomes walking.

[Dave2512]

Your scenario is fantasy, never see singles on crowded courses.

[Moppy]

Your scenario is fantasy, never see singles on crowded courses.

Really? We see singles all time time when there are several groups out. What they do, and what I do when I am a single riding alone, is take extra chips and putts, or play multiple balls, to slow down the pace.  This whole thing started with a single rider complaining that groups were slow. Here's a free clue: When you are a single riding alone, playing a single ball, you are going to catch nearly every group playing.

[Moppy]

I do want to know what actions taken by a group behind me indicate impatience though. Really? What would a sign be short of shouting insults?