Do I need more distance?

[Duff McGee]

I guess I would just add that I agree with Iacas about the long term length being an issue on another level bc I can hit what feels about 50 or 60% of my normal PW swing (which still is very controlled and not very hard) and easily hit it 120ish. In fact, what began giving me problems a few weeks ago was just about 110. I kept taking "soft swings" and I kept hitting it over the green or to the back. Now I barely swing the damn club for that distance. It's definitely your ball striking and not strength or club speed that is the issue.

[mjdk1]

No you don't.

You have a selective memory.

Start a Member Swing thread or work with a local instructor. Hitting your 7I 135 is not far enough to become a scratch golfer. Driving distances of about 250-255 are the norm for a scratch golfer. 7Is that go 155+ are the norm at that range too.

Could be. Tell you what, when I'm at the range tomorrow I'll test it out. My local range has a 125 yard mound with a pin with about a 15 yard radius. I'll hit 20 and I'll let you know. I'm a pretty honest guy - don't really see the value in bs-ing a bunch of strangers...so we will see. I'm willing to be proven wrong.

As for the second part of your comment.. you basically repeated your first comment. I'm not really interested in how most scratch golfers hit a 7i 155+, as much as I'm interested in why a 7i 135yds won't be able to achieve it. While you are probably correct that I won't reach scratch as is, you haven't really provided any reason why other than "most scratch golfers hit further than that". I understand without seeing my swing it's not possible to be specific, but that's exactly why I think it's also not possible to definitively tell me I won't get there as is. Just my two cents.

[mvmac]

while my 7i gets me usually 10-20 ft from the hole. I'd love to be able to hit those within 10ft, so if using a wedge can do that than that's a huge advantage, but I'm not really sure loft is the biggest factor in being THAT accurate.

I know it may seem like I'm crapping on your game but next time walk off the distance of those putts, there's a very good chance you are usually not 10-20 ft away.

I think you are overestimating how "badly" you putt and overestimating how close you hit your irons.

http://www.pgatour.com/stats/stat.339.2014.html

Could you elaborate a bit more on this point?  Just curious because I don't typically feel all that disadvantaged when on the course given my distance, is it just based on the ability to attack pins? At 130 yds my playing buddies might pull a PW and send it 15 yards right/left of the green

Just that you're not going to find many (probably zero) scratch golfers that only hit their 7 iron 130. You're at a huge disadvantage compared to your average scratch golfer when they're hitting a 3/4 9-iron or some kind of wedge and you're hitting 7 iron, not to mention the distance off the tee. You just won't be able to compete on your average length course from the blues. Going to be tough to play 420, 440, 460 yard par 4s.

[DrvFrShow]

@mjdk1 You know what I'd do if I were you is grab something called Game Golf. I like the hardware version of it as opposed to the mobile version because you don't have to worry about entering crap while you're on the course. In addition to showing you how well you're managing the course - and how accurately or inaccurately you're really hitting stuff, it keeps track of your club distances and will let you know what your median distance with each club is.

We tend to focus on the negative and forget the positive. You'll see both, and you might be surprised. You also have to take some of the numbers with a grain of salt, too, because of course conditions that it doesn't factor in.

I'd highly recommend it.

[boogielicious]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hatchman

I kinda of know what the THERE is for you, scratch. Unless you are extraordinary, which I believe you may be, it will require distance and control of all types of shots. This I do not know however. I really picked up distance when I started covering the ball and hitting the pull-draw, bam, better. Sometimes too well! There are types of shots that has to be learned and practiced. Cuts are my favorite. So what is your plan to achieve your goal?

Well, I have one small change in mind I want to test out before anything else, maybe you guys can give me some thoughts. I'm not really sure if anyone has encountered this, but I have a tendency to move my hips to the right on my backswing. So the movement is "right and rotate" rather than just "rotate". I hit a natural fade, but a right-slice is rarely my miss (I push left if anything), so I don't think this means I'm coming outside-in (which I gather would result in a right slice). So that would have me believe I'm doing something in my downswing to adjust for the bad hip movement. This is probably leading to a decrease in swing speed?

That's off the top of my head. What I don't want to do is mess with my tempo.. for all of it's shortcomings on distance my swing has a tempo that gives me a great feel for hitting my spots. As for getting to scratch - I think I am a long way off from that for sure! I'm a pretty below average putter I think. I don't 1-putt all that often during a round, so that's got to be a huge focal point for me. Leaving a ton of makeable birdie/par putts out there, which can get really frustrating.

Check out this thread.

[iacas]

Could be. Tell you what, when I'm at the range tomorrow I'll test it out. My local range has a 125 yard mound with a pin with about a 15 yard radius. I'll hit 20 and I'll let you know. I'm a pretty honest guy - don't really see the value in bs-ing a bunch of strangers...so we will see. I'm willing to be proven wrong.

If we're in total honesty mode, I wouldn't believe you even if you told me you did it. Aaaaaaannnnnndddddddd, it's on the practice range, not the golf course. Did you mean 10-20 yards ? You have said feet repeatedly IIRC.

You are not better than the best PGA Tour players from that range.

As for the second part of your comment.. you basically repeated your first comment. I'm not really interested in how most scratch golfers hit a 7i 155+, as much as I'm interested in why a 7i 135yds won't be able to achieve it. While you are probably correct that I won't reach scratch as is, you haven't really provided any reason why other than "most scratch golfers hit further than that". I understand without seeing my swing it's not possible to be specific, but that's exactly why I think it's also not possible to definitively tell me I won't get there as is. Just my two cents.

Because playing scratch golf requires you to be able to reach par fours in two. Scratch does not mean shooting par if the course rating is 68.3 because you've played from 6300 yard tees. You don't have the distance to compete - you'd need to have a putting and short game about as good or even possibly better than a PGA Tour player's just to get near a scratch differential in most of your rounds.

Distance is a huge advantage, and in this case, one you can't quite give up.

Most scratch golfers (and by most I don't mean 55%…) hit their 7I 160 or so… and that means they're more accurate. On a 170-yard hole where you're hitting, what, a 3I? 4I? They're hitting that 7I. They're more accurate than you. They can also hit a 5I to an occasional par five while you're hitting a 7I with your third shot.

Distance IS accuracy because you can hit shorter, more controllable, more reliable, more easily "stopped" shots into the greens.

Scoring is predicated upon hitting greens in regulation, and if you're playing a 420-yard hole, you're not getting home very often. Heck…

420 yard hole for you: Driver leaves you 200 in… and what, you hit a 3W?

420 yard hole for scratch golfer: 3W leaves him a 6I in. Driver leaves him an 8I.

Check this thread out:

And this one:

One more:

---

Welcome to the site, and I mean that. If you're able to re-assess and stick around, you'll learn a TON, and we're always willing to help. That's what I honestly see the above as, too: help. Maybe you're the one-in-a-million exception, but I doubt it. So helping you to realize what it takes so that you can be honest about your game and ability and what needs work (and how) is important, I feel, in helping you play better golf.

Anyway, check out the threads linked above, and the Swing Thoughts forum, and other threads that interest you. You'll find a LOT here to learn, and a LOT of people who are not only willing to help, but happy to do so.

[Hatchman]

Excellent points. I really like the point about walk off or stepping off putts from @mvmac. I mark mine on my card and circle with location to hole for study on practice rounds. Maybe I think too much. I think your self honesty will help you. Although you sense the need because you started a thread, your a little reluctant to relate take that step and totally distance with score improvement. I like the progression though, control then length. But to be honest I hit a PW with a 131g shaft (like it heavy like my bats) 115 non full. Rarely do I ever take full shots. But I'm a little older than you and scratch is probably not in my sight. I wish it was. Listen to these experiences.

[RH31]

Looking for some advice  - this is my first post on here, but I've read a lot over the years and it's be really helpful.

I hit all of my irons quite short (reference: strong 7 iron will go 130-135), but I hit them to that distance extremely consistently and always straight. It's probably not an issue of strength as I am 6'3, 25 y/o and pretty athletic. From reading on this site I'm sure I'm probably flipping or opening the club-face, or any other sort of tendencies that could cause this. My question is: should I care? I've been constantly improving my handicap each year and I hope to get it to 7 by the end of the year. Honestly, the biggest weakness in my game is putting, where I lose several strokes each round on missed 6-10 footers.

If I had to guess I'd say my iron distance loses me about 2 strokes a round on average. For example, a 150 pin for me is an easy 5 iron or a strong 6 depending on lie and conditions. I can get on the green, but I can see the advantage of being able to attack the pin more with the loft of an 8i - I'd say that situation may save me a couple over a round.

Anyways, is it really worth going through the pain of a swing change to get more iron distance? Or should I just stick with whats working for me. Will it be worth it for me in the long run? My ultimate goal is to play scratch golf, and if it means getting there I'm open to a swing change, but I've tried it before and it wrecked my game for a whole year.

Appreciate any input.

I agree you won't get to scratch w/o adding length. You might get down to a 5-6 range if your short game is great. I say this because I've never encountered a scratch player who hits it shorter than me in the 30+ years I've been playing.

You need to carry the ball a lot farther just to have the chance to get to scratch, so go for the swing change now, while you are young. The longer your current swing becomes ingrained, the harder it is going to be to change to something different. Understand that any swing changes you make are going to mess with your timing. It's going to require a lot of work to get longer and be comfortable with new methods. You will more than likely regress somewhat during the process.

I would video my swing and take it to some teaching pros. Ask them for an honest estimate of what they would do to your swing to get you there, then decide if you're willing to make that commitment.

Understand that you will lose distance as you get older.  That 130 7i will one day be a 120 yard 7i and then the game is just that much harder.

[Jon Hoover]

You know just a few years ago I was kind of like you only hit my 7i 150ish if i was lucky, but my one friend who started playing the same time as me would be hitting 9i. My problem was that I was swinging from outside in typical fade shot, so i really started to work on trying to add distance. I worked on lagging the club and trying to take the shaft back parallel with the ground, I would just try to swing as fast as possible in my backyard for months also worked on trying to get the hips through first thus resulting in hooking the ball, which will also increase your distance. So I was pretty accurate when i wasn't hitting them far but when i started swinging faster I was all over the place, hitting big hooks or pushes right it was a mess. I stuck with it though and finally now I'm seeing my accuracy come back took at least a year or so but instead of hitting that 7i now i hit a PW 150 and they go super high anything 100 and in isn't even a full 60. I still have the occasional nasty hook but with time my accuracy is only increasing. But it has revolutionized the game for me I'll constantly whip out a 4i on teeboxes for shorter par 4's and slam it next to peoples drives. The distance took awhile to get under control but has greatly reduced my handicap and makes me confident that on any hole i could be putting for birdie. It took awhile and it was very frustrating at times but it does pay off, there is just something majestic about getting on in 2 on a 570yrd par 5 even when i miss the eagle putt.

[mvmac]

Because playing scratch golf requires you to be able to reach par fours in two. Scratch does not mean shooting par if the course rating is 68.3 because you've played from 6300 yard tees. You don't have the distance to compete - you'd need to have a putting and short game about as good or even possibly better than a PGA Tour player's just to get near a scratch differential in most of your rounds.

Distance is a huge advantage, and in this case, one you can't quite give up.

Most scratch golfers (and by most I don't mean 55%…) hit their 7I 160 or so… and that means they're more accurate. On a 170-yard hole where you're hitting, what, a 3I? 4I? They're hitting that 7I. They're more accurate than you. They can also hit a 5I to an occasional par five while you're hitting a 7I with your third shot.

Distance IS accuracy because you can hit shorter, more controllable, more reliable, more easily "stopped" shots into the greens.

Scoring is predicated upon hitting greens in regulation, and if you're playing a 420-yard hole, you're not getting home very often. Heck…

420 yard hole for you: Driver leaves you 200 in… and what, you hit a 3W?

420 yard hole for scratch golfer: 3W leaves him a 6I in. Driver leaves him an 8I.

Welcome to the site, and I mean that. If you're able to re-assess and stick around, you'll learn a TON, and we're always willing to help. That's what I honestly see the above as, too: help. Maybe you're the one-in-a-million exception, but I doubt it. So helping you to realize what it takes so that you can be honest about your game and ability and what needs work (and how) is important, I feel, in helping you play better golf.

Anyway, check out the threads linked above, and the Swing Thoughts forum, and other threads that interest you. You'll find a LOT here to learn, and a LOT of people who are not only willing to help, but happy to do so.

Really good post here. I also support the second part, we're being honest with you because we're trying to help.

@mjdk1 does what @iacas said makes sense?

[Aflighter]

For your age your distance does seem low.Im as short a hitter there is probably and my 7 iron generally goes 140-145.Unless your gonna play tees over 6500 yards youll be just fine by working on chipping and putting.If your hitting ball straight then your ahead of the game but with some range work and trying different things you should be able to get extra 20 yards on your clubs.

[Duff McGee]

My biggest concern is not actually the distance. It is the fact that even swinging 3/4 a swing for most of us we can hit the 7 iron further than he is. And to me, that means he has bad swing mechanics and might just be remembering the good shots and discounting the bad shots. I used to do that a lot when I was younger but now I am really critical of my swing instead of defensive and it is really helping my game to not be offended when a pro critiques my swing.