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Lost Ball Rule is Stupid


Duff McGee
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The glasses are allowed on the PGA and LPGA tours. They had to be submitted to the golf organizations and approved. They're polarized sunglasses. They reduce glare. The only difference is the spectrum of light they filter.

Some people wear brown tint because brown makes the world a happier place. These glasses make the ball easier to follow against a blue sky. Do these sunglasses aid a person in making a stroke? Are they considered artificial devices?

Some people wear grey tint. It could be argued that wearing something that reduces glare can assist in making a stroke.

If they ban one type of sunglasses they have to ban all of them.

I think we're really splitting hairs. Finding your ball and actually making a stroke at your ball are two entirely different things. An artificial device that aids one in making a stroke at the ball is the issue.


Not splitting hairs at all., and not  disagreeing with you.  Just pointing out, perhaps not clearly enough, that assistance in making a stroke is not the only criterion to be considered regarding the legality of a device - assisting the player in his play has to be as well.  The ball with the chip  is not acceptable but it does not assist you in making a stroke; it has to be because it assists the player in his play i.e. locating your  ball by artificial means is helpful in your play.  From that we can infer that these glasses which help locate your golf ball are also assisting in your play.  They are acceptable probably for reasons such as you put forward about the the variety of differently tinted sunglasses in use.

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Rule 14-3  is also concerned with devices which might   assist [the player]  ...........in his play, not just in making a stroke.

Decision 14-3/14 needs to be considered here, I'd suggest.  The implication is that finding a ball more easily as a realist of a device does assist you in your play.

http://www.usga.org/rules/rules-and-decisions.html#!decision-14,d14-3-14

If that were the case the pro's would all be breaking the rules because the officials and gallery all track and follow their golf balls, not the pro's.

Joe Paradiso

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Note: if they banned sunglasses, it would be one of the most violated rules in golf. Only the pros and those playing in competitions would pay attention to it. This I can almost guarantee. Or since all it takes is a prescription from your doctor stating you need to wear or use X the rule could easily be circumvented. Thus since mine are prescription.... :-P

Julia

:callaway:  :cobra:    :seemore:  :bushnell:  :clicgear:  :adidas:  :footjoy:

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Hybrids: Cobra BiO CELL 22.5 degree Project X R-flex
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Wedges: Cobra BiO CELL SW, Fly-Z LW, 64* Callaway PM Grind.
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They should allow RFID balls. If the ball is actually not out of bounds, it isn't out of bounds and the player should get to see if he or she can hit it. I have never seen a pro lose a ball that is in play. It's not fair that they get a gallery and cameras to find the damn ball for them every time while we have to search for a ball we had no chance of finding that is 3 feet off the fairway.
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They should allow RFID balls. If the ball is actually not out of bounds, it isn't out of bounds and the player should get to see if he or she can hit it.

I have never seen a pro lose a ball that is in play. It's not fair that they get a gallery and cameras to find the damn ball for them every time while we have to search for a ball we had no chance of finding that is 3 feet off the fairway.


tiger...  2003 british open...   first hole...

i'm sure there are others, but that one immediately comes to mind...

the galleries also keep a lot of shots "in play" that would end up in really bad spots...   i wish i had a gallery around every green to stop a shot that is coming in, ummm, a little hot...  :)

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I guess my regular glasses help me find the ball, or even give me some idea of which direction to go to look!  I don't think the rules have a problem with them.

I would say as long as your eyes remain the only "sensor" with only standard optical enhancements (glasses, binoculars, spotting scope, whatever?) there's no issue.  If there were aided by some sort of enhanced image processing that specifically enhanced finding balls one might start to have an issue.  Though even then I would differentiate  a device that enhanced vision of any ball from one (RFID) that could particularly sense your ball.

Heck, my regular glasses help me play even more than that!  The help me to SEE the ball so I can HIT it.  Well,, sometimes.  I agree completely with your second paragraph.

And guys, @ColinL is not arguing that the sunglasses are illegal.  He is talking about what the basis is for their legality.  Someone suggested that they were legal because they did not assist play.  Colin was merely pointing out that the function of finding balls IS considered as assisting play.  He was challenging the "doesn't assist play" argument not the legality conclusion.  Assisting play does not make something automatically illegal.

And apologies, @ColinL , if I've read you wrong on this.

But then again, what the hell do I know?

Rich - in name only

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Problem is, on the tour, there are cameras and hundreds of spectators...so "lost balls" are rare in comparison. On the course, I can hit a decent drive just barely off the fairway, and not be able to find it. Nature of the beast...I have no answers.

This is what always bothers me about the lost ball policy.

If I hit a drive a few yards off the fairway, and there are a bunch of leaves on the ground, it may be impossible to find the ball.  Even though I know roughly were the ball stopped and is in bounds.

In that scenario, I just take a free drop instead of taking 5 minutes looking for it.  I don't have the benefit of large crowds, marshalls and tv cameras to find my ball.   Seems like an unfair rule for the causal golfer.

Tony  


:titleist:    |   :tmade:   |     :cleveland: 

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Slice of Life

Problem is, on the tour, there are cameras and hundreds of spectators...so "lost balls" are rare in comparison. On the course, I can hit a decent drive just barely off the fairway, and not be able to find it. Nature of the beast...I have no answers.

This is what always bothers me about the lost ball policy.

If I hit a drive a few yards off the fairway, and there are a bunch of leaves on the ground, it may be impossible to find the ball.  Even though I know roughly were the ball stopped and is in bounds.

In that scenario, I just take a free drop instead of taking 5 minutes looking for it.  I don't have the benefit of large crowds, marshalls and tv cameras to find my ball.   Seems like an unfair rule for the causal golfer.

Except that the rule was written for amateur golfers long before there was a pro tour, at least 200 years before there were cameras and galleries.  Those things are relatively new phenomena compared to when the rule was conceived.

Rick

"He who has the fastest cart will never have a bad lie."

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This is what always bothers me about the lost ball policy.

If I hit a drive a few yards off the fairway, and there are a bunch of leaves on the ground, it may be impossible to find the ball.  Even though I know roughly were the ball stopped and is in bounds.

In that scenario, I just take a free drop instead of taking 5 minutes looking for it.  I don't have the benefit of large crowds, marshalls and tv cameras to find my ball.   Seems like an unfair rule for the causal golfer.


What other rules have you deemed  unfair and refuse to play by?  If you and I are playing a match or a stroke play game and you LOSE your ball as you have described above, how is it fair that you get to just take a FREE drop?

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What other rules have you deemed  unfair and refuse to play by?  If you and I are playing a match or a stroke play game and you LOSE your ball as you have described above, how is it fair that you get to just take a FREE drop?

I should have clarified.

This would only be in a casual round, never a competition.  And only when I know where the ball came to a lie and the leaves/ground cover making search for the ball difficult.  I would never take a free drop if I hit it into the woods, near a hazard, etc.  It has to be pretty clear where the ball should be but I just can't find it.  I don't have great vision and searching in the leaves is not fun for me.

Tony  


:titleist:    |   :tmade:   |     :cleveland: 

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Except that the rule was written for amateur golfers long before there was a pro tour, at least 200 years before there were cameras and galleries.  Those things are relatively new phenomena compared to when the rule was conceived.

True, but how far were they hitting the ball 200 years ago?  The farther the ball travels, the harder it is to track its location.  Throw in a blinding Colorado sunset, which is the only time i can really play, and it makes searching for that ball much more difficult.

Should I really penalize myself for not being able to see into the sun?

Tony  


:titleist:    |   :tmade:   |     :cleveland: 

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Heck, my regular glasses help me play even more than that!  The help me to SEE the ball so I can HIT it.  Well,, sometimes.  I agree completely with your second paragraph.

And guys, @ColinL is not arguing that the sunglasses are illegal.  He is talking about what the basis is for their legality.  Someone suggested that they were legal because they did not assist play.  Colin was merely pointing out that the function of finding balls IS considered as assisting play.  He was challenging the "doesn't assist play" argument not the legality conclusion.  Assisting play does not make something automatically illegal.

And apologies, @ColinL, if I've read you wrong on this.

Thanks for that.  That's what I was trying to say.

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Fourputt

Except that the rule was written for amateur golfers long before there was a pro tour, at least 200 years before there were cameras and galleries.  Those things are relatively new phenomena compared to when the rule was conceived.

True, but how far were they hitting the ball 200 years ago?  The farther the ball travels, the harder it is to track its location.  Throw in a blinding Colorado sunset, which is the only time i can really play, and it makes searching for that ball much more difficult.

Should I really penalize myself for not being able to see into the sun?

They were also playing courses that were much rougher than what we have today, with little maintenance.  Heather and gorse and the like grew where it would.  They were also playing a feathery ball, which was tan or brown leather, not the bright white, or shocking yellow, or whatever that we have.  It all balances out.  Also those balls were very expensive even compared to today's tour balls.

You can justify it any way you like, but golfers have been dealing with lost balls in the same fashion since the beginnings of the game.  We are not being unfairly put upon just because we don't have a gallery following us.

Rick

"He who has the fastest cart will never have a bad lie."

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Also those balls were very expensive even compared to today's tour balls.

real masochists, those guys who wrote the rules... they decided the financial penalty of a lost ball wasn't enough punishment and added on stroke and distance... glad my parents weren't that strict... :-P

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But back in the days when the rules were written when they used feathery balls, they didn't hit them as far either. Also, some courses in certain areas have a local rule covering the "leaf" problem starting in September - free drop.

We have to deal with a lot of rules that aren't exactly fair, but remember, if you're pitching over a bunker and you see a rock or stone in the bunker you can remove the rock or stone from the bunker before you hit your ball. It is only after your ball is in the bunker when you're not supposed to do that, unless otherwise allowed by local rule.

Julia

:callaway:  :cobra:    :seemore:  :bushnell:  :clicgear:  :adidas:  :footjoy:

Spoiler

Driver: Callaway Big Bertha w/ Fubuki Z50 R 44.5"
FW: Cobra BiO CELL 14.5 degree; 
Hybrids: Cobra BiO CELL 22.5 degree Project X R-flex
Irons: Cobra BiO CELL 5 - GW Project X R-Flex
Wedges: Cobra BiO CELL SW, Fly-Z LW, 64* Callaway PM Grind.
Putter: 48" Odyssey Dart

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Heck, my regular glasses help me play even more than that!  The help me to SEE the ball so I can HIT it.  Well,, sometimes.  I agree completely with your second paragraph.

I have to agree with you there.  Had a lesson the other day, the pro was trying to fix my posture... I find that the ball is just about at the bottom of the frame of my glasses. I'm still working to find the spot where I can see the ball, and improve my posture!  The things you never think of!

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This is what always bothers me about the lost ball policy.

If I hit a drive a few yards off the fairway, and there are a bunch of leaves on the ground, it may be impossible to find the ball.  Even though I know roughly were the ball stopped and is in bounds.

In that scenario, I just take a free drop instead of taking 5 minutes looking for it.  I don't have the benefit of large crowds, marshalls and tv cameras to find my ball.   Seems like an unfair rule for the causal golfer.

I have had 2 scenarios where I thought the lost ball rule was unfair.

1-Playing by myself and lost my ball into the sun. Not a clue where it was heading, but it was not in the normal landing spot.

Penalty!

2-My entire playing group in a league tournament was back at the cart when I tee’d up. I made great contact by lost it in the sun and clouds. I never even saw it!

Penalty!

I can understand losing a ball when you have people watching it for you, but you are set up to fail when you are on your own. But that is just the way it is.

True, but how far were they hitting the ball 200 years ago?  The farther the ball travels, the harder it is to track its location.  Throw in a blinding Colorado sunset, which is the only time i can really play, and it makes searching for that ball much more difficult.

Should I really penalize myself for not being able to see into the sun?

yes penalty! Next time bring sun glasses, hit it lower and dont lose it!

They were also playing courses that were much rougher than what we have today, with little maintenance.  Heather and gorse and the like grew where it would.  They were also playing a feathery ball, which was tan or brown leather, not the bright white, or shocking yellow, or whatever that we have.  It all balances out.  Also those balls were very expensive even compared to today's tour balls.

You can justify it any way you like, but golfers have been dealing with lost balls in the same fashion since the beginnings of the game.  We are not being unfairly put upon just because we don't have a gallery following us.

The writers of the rules never hit a ball 280 off the tee, around a winding, heavily wooded course in the upper Adirondacks!

In my Grom:

Driver-Taylormade 10.5 Woods- Taylomade 3 wood, taylormade 4 Hybrid
Irons- Callaway Big Berthas 5i - GW Wedges- Titles Volkey  Putter- Odyssey protype #9
Ball- Bridgestone E6
All grips Golf Pride

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The writers of the rules never hit a ball 280 off the tee, around a winding, heavily wooded course in the upper Adirondacks!

I think you will find that virtually all the 'writers' have been scratch players or better.

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