The Definitive Pace of Play Thread

[jetsknicks1]

With my standard foursome, we're definitely finishing inside of 3:30. We're "first tee time" players so there's rarely anybody ahead of us.

[RandallT]

After the round, I went out and played the front 9 by myself and finished in a hair over an hour, walking a really hilly course with my push cart (and, it turns out, bordering on heat stroke; I weighed myself when I got home and I'd lost 11 pounds since the morning. Felt awful all night. But that's neither here nor there). So I know I can play fast, I just never really get a chance to.

Wait, what? Holy crap.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Strandly

The poll is really kind of silly since it depends on the level of skill in the group and if you're walking or riding.

Except for the extreme end of the fast play spectrum....call it sub-3 hours, those may be the two of the least important factors in determining pace of play.

Agreed. Skill level and walk/ride are very minor issues, in my mind. Plus, the poll is interesting because it will give us a broad cross-section of opinions on what we see as typical rounds. I've always heard a tad over 4 hours (in various academic papers that study the issue as I recall- yes there are serious academic studies on this topic), but it seems so far, we are leaning toward experiencing a tad under 4 hours.

[Hardspoon]

The poll is really kind of silly since it depends on the level of skill in the group and if you're walking or riding.

Except for the extreme end of the fast play spectrum....call it sub-3 hours, those may be the two of the least important factors in determining pace of play.

Agreed 100% on cart/walking...a single may be faster in a cart (not by as much as people think), but in any group of 2 or more (and this thread is about foursomes) walking and riding are going to be basically identical pace-wise.

I would add one small qualification regarding skill - I'd say skill level matters at the extreme end of fast play spectrum OR at the extreme ends of skill spectrum.

[newtogolf]

Sunken Meadow twice last week and Crab Meadow twice this week.

I've never played those, this summer I've played Pine Ridge, Rock Hill, Smithtown Landing, Spring Lake, Cherry Creek, Willow Creek and Wind Watch and haven't had any painfully slow rounds.

[dkolo]

I've never played those, this summer I've played Pine Ridge, Rock Hill, Smithtown Landing, Spring Lake, Cherry Creek, Willow Creek and Wind Watch and haven't had any painfully slow rounds.

I haven't played it this year, but Smithtown Landing hasn't had a reputation as being fast on the weekends in the past from people I talked to. But your mileage may vary I'm sure on any given day. Crab Meadow is fine during the week, but it's a parking lot on the weekends. Sunken Meadow was fast for me once, but in fairness that was the first day of winter 2012, haha. Also, the farther east you go, the less crowded it is. Those you listed are mostly much farther into Suffolk. Nassau courses like Bethpage or Eisenhower are abysmal. There was just an article on Golf on Long Island about the need to reduce the rough at Eisenhower Red to speed up play.

[Strandly]

You guys have clearly not played enough games behind a group of senior citizens who are walking, which is not an uncommon thing on a golf course. I will agree that the cart/walk things make less of a difference than skill but when you compare 4 bad people walking to 4 bad people in carts I think the difference is significant.

I think skill is easily the biggest factor.  I do not have an official handicap yet but I think I would be a legitimate 11-12 and I can tell you the difference in my play times from when I first started to now have dropped enormously and it's entirely because I take fewer shots per round.

Finally, yes, good players can be horrifically slow and bad players can play in a timely manner but I based my opinion on the assumption that everyone values their time the same.  Nobody cares about the knobs that think 5 minutes per shot is acceptable or the kids who tear through holes and hit into the group ahead.  To put it another way, if everyone was told they got 2 minutes per shot then in the end skill and cart or walking is what would determine pace of play.

[newtogolf]

I haven't played it this year, but Smithtown Landing hasn't had a reputation as being fast on the weekends in the past from people I talked to. But your mileage may vary I'm sure on any given day. Crab Meadow is fine during the week, but it's a parking lot on the weekends. Sunken Meadow was fast for me once, but in fairness that was the first day of winter 2012, haha.

Also, the farther east you go, the less crowded it is. Those you listed are mostly much farther into Suffolk. Nassau courses like Bethpage or Eisenhower are abysmal. There was just an article on Golf on Long Island about the need to reduce the rough at Eisenhower Red to speed up play.

I live in Suffolk County and prefer to go east versus west when I'm playing public courses for the reasons you state, less traffic and less golfers.  Smithtown landing was probably the slowest of all I listed.

[dkolo]

I live in Suffolk County and prefer to go east versus west when I'm playing public courses for the reasons you state, less traffic and less golfers.  Smithtown landing was probably the slowest of all I listed.

Totally. I play the Meadows because they're a 10 minute drive from me and are super cheap (I also like them save for the pace issues, even if greens are glacial). I played Tallgrass out east this summer and it was a sub-4 hour round despite being my worst score of the year (damn fescue). A guy could get spoiled playing that speed every time haha.

[krupa]

I think I have encountered the absolute slowest people ever to play golf.

Yesterday I went out by myself to play 18.  The course just opened up after a tournament and there was no one in front of me.  After teeing off on the 3rd hole, I heard a twosome talking over on 12 and recognized one of them as a terribly slow player I encountered last year.  Well, I thought, I'm on 3 and they're on 12, there's no way I'll catch up to them.  I caught up to them on 16!!!  They took at least 3 hours to play 9 holes!  Thankfully they at least let people play through.

[BuckeyeNut]

Good comments...keep them coming!   As some have nicely noted, the course itself plays a significant factor.   Those playing classic old courses with greens and tees close together should get around significantly faster than a modern course designed to be a "riders only" course because of the large distances between many of the holes.  The travel time adds up quickly.....IE.....even the drive to the fairway can take awhile when you have to drive around/down/and through a canyon to get to the fairway from the tee.

[iacas]

Good comments...keep them coming!   As some have nicely noted, the course itself plays a significant factor.   Those playing classic old courses with greens and tees close together should get around significantly faster than a modern course designed to be a "riders only" course because of the large distances between many of the holes.  The travel time adds up quickly.....IE.....even the drive to the fairway can take awhile when you have to drive around/down/and through a canyon to get to the fairway from the tee.

No they can't.

I've been on some courses where you drive for a minute on a few holes. But even if the AVERAGE drive from green to tee is one minute LONGER than average (which is, what, 15 seconds, so 1:15 for 18 holes?), you're only adding 18 minutes.

That's not adding up very quickly. It's not going to turn a 4:00 round into even a 4:30 round let alone a 5:00 round. Closer to 4:15.

[mvmac]

Well, I thought, I'm on 3 and they're on 12, there's no way I'll catch up to them.  I caught up to them on 16!!!  They took at least 3 hours to play 9 holes!  Thankfully they at least let people play through.

That's ridiculous. How the heck does it take that long to play?

[Golfingdad]

4-4:30.

[Aguirre]

I voted 4-4 1/2 because that's the typical length of my rounds.  I was in Myrtle last week, and the courses were booked solid.  I don't remember it being like this for a long time in the summer.

If play is fairly open, then it simply depends on my foursome.  One thing is for certain, and that is not enough people play ready golf.  I mean, so what if one of your playing partners is fifteen yards behind you across the fairway?  If he's not already in his preshot routine, hit your ball.  Secondly, do your preshot routine while other people are hitting.  Line up your putt while other players are putting.  I don't get why this isn't done more often, even by experienced players who are aware of pace of play.

I try to drive the cart every time, because I frankly don't think 90% of people have a clue as to how to operate the cart on a golf course.  Particularly about where to park around the green, or who should be dropped off and take the cart around.

[BuckeyeNut]

No they can't.

I've been on some courses where you drive for a minute on a few holes. But even if the AVERAGE drive from green to tee is one minute LONGER than average (which is, what, 15 seconds, so 1:15 for 18 holes?), you're only adding 18 minutes.

No what?  What exactly are you saying?

I can see easily adding 18-30+ minutes to 18 holes for those riding carts on a big golf course that is spread out over a large area compared to and old traditional course designed for walking. Classic courses...on average... cover much, much less ground to complete 18 holes from tee to green..green to tee...etc, etc...  I've had memberships at both types of courses over the years. I've belonged to a course where I could easily play 18 holes under 2hrs...without rushing.........and I've also had memberships at courses where playing 18 in 2hr 30min pace was roughly the same pace. ...as a percentage, this is BIG!  Terrain also plays a role.....whether is a flat parkland course or Canyon course makes a big difference.

[DrvFrShow]

Terrain does make a difference especially when you're walking. On a flat course not so much, but you start adding in a lot of hills and you're stopping a minute to catch your breath if your ball is at the top of one. Also walking downhill is no picnic either with a load of clubs either in a cart or carrying. It becomes exercise, not a walk in the park.

[krupa]

Quote:

Originally Posted by krupa

Well, I thought, I'm on 3 and they're on 12, there's no way I'll catch up to them.  I caught up to them on 16!!!  They took at least 3 hours to play 9 holes!  Thankfully they at least let people play through.

That's ridiculous. How the heck does it take that long to play?

For the most part, they stopped golfing to talk instead of the other way around.  Also, the guy kept stopping -- literally stopping in the fairway --  to check his cell phone.  She would take an eternity over her ball.  Not sure what she was doing, she'd just kind of freeze over it.   On the 17th fairway they stopped and were looking towards the green.  I figured someone was putting out but no, there was no one there.  They were just standing there.

[RGoosen]

I voted 4-4 1/2 because that's the typical length of my rounds.  I was in Myrtle last week, and the courses were booked solid.  I don't remember it being like this for a long time in the summer.   If play is fairly open, then it simply depends on my foursome.  One thing is for certain, and that is not enough people play ready golf.  I mean, so what if one of your playing partners is fifteen yards behind you across the fairway?  If he's not already in his preshot routine, hit your ball.  Secondly, do your preshot routine while other people are hitting.  Line up your putt while other players are putting.  I don't get why this isn't done more often, even by experienced players who are aware of pace of play. I try to drive the cart every time, because I frankly don't think 90% of people have a clue as to how to operate the cart on a golf course.  Particularly about where to park around the green, or who should be dropped off and take the cart around.

I just played 6 rounds in Myrtle Beach. Even with sending players off the front and back 9 I only had one round last longer than 4 hrs. Heritage took close to 5 hrs. For some reason the Legends group: Heritage/Moorland/Heathleand/TPC Myrtle cannot control pace of play. The only 4:30-5:00 hour rounds have been with this group. It is a shame too b/c I really like Heritage and Moorland. Their excuse will be we send groups off the 1st and 10th tee box, but they did the same thing at True Blue, Carolina National, Pawley's, and Grande Dunes and my longest round at those courses was 4 hrs.