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The Definitive Pace of Play Thread


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83 members have voted

  1. 1. How long does it typically take you to play 18 holes as a foursome?

    • Under 3:00
      0
    • 3:00 to 3:30
      20
    • 3:30 to 4:00
      73
    • 4:00 to 4:30
      72
    • 4:30 to 5:00
      11
    • Over 5:00
      4


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I am certain we all have anecdotes for every golf scenario. IMO pace problems could be lessened with a little training and enforcement. If pro shops simply made part of the check in process more than collecting money and handing out cart keys it would raise awareness.

Something like the clerk pointing out the POP on the card and mentioning what time that group should be at the turn would go a long way. 

Dave :-)

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1 hour ago, newtogolf said:

My groups play at the fastest comfortable pace we can.  We always pay attention to our pace of play and ensure we keep up with the group in front of us, play "ready golf".

You really don't need to explain beyond this point.

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On a full course keeping up the groups ahead is all we can do. Just because it's possible to play faster during off-peak times doesn't mean that should be the standard for what happens on a full course. My guess is most do play faster than whatever the POP is when it's more open. Even guys out there farting around on an open course would go with the flow when pinched between groups.

Dave :-)

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  • 2 weeks later...

I went out last night to get some range time, record some swing videos, and walk nine. There was a league going off when I got there, but I didn't mind because I was going to be on the range for awhile. The tee was going to be free at 5 so I had plenty of time to warm up and get my videos recorded. I noticed the tee was free before 5 but I kept working on the range so that I could get a good buffer space between myself and the last league group. Then another 4 some pulls up from the league, they must have been running a bit late. No big deal, I still had a decent amount of range balls to use because I was being pretty slow and methodical with my practice. Another 10-15 minutes pass and I finish up on the range and head over to the tee. They are still in the fairway, granted it was cart path only, but only one person was walking to their ball at a time.... Oh well, I think, I can deal with it. I expected to have some struggles from implementing some swing changes anyway. Almost an hour later I finish up the third hole and walk over to towards the 4th tee. As one of the carts is pulling away the guy says "You're behind a league, buddy, hope that's ok" I just shrugged at him and set my bag down to wait. What I wanted to say is, "I know I'm behind a league, but you guys have been a hole and a half behind the people in front of you. So it's not slow because of the league, it's slow because of you." However, I decided to just keep quiet. By the time they were on their approach on 7, the group in front of them were on their approach on 9. All the other groups on the course were in position besides them. It took just about exactly 2 1/2 hours for me to walk 9 holes behind this group, it had to have take them close to 3 hours with the extra time I gave them before I started. I couldn't believe the guy thought that the fact they were playing "in a league" justified such a slow pace for their group. Had they been in position it would have taken right around 2 hours or a little less to finish, which would have been more than acceptable.

KICK THE FLIP!!

In the bag:
:srixon: Z355

:callaway: XR16 3 Wood
:tmade: Aeroburner 19* 3 hybrid
:ping: I e1 irons 4-PW
:vokey: SM5 50, 60
:wilsonstaff: Harmonized Sole Grind 56 and Windy City Putter

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38 minutes ago, Jeremie Boop said:

I went out last night to get some range time, record some swing videos, and walk nine. There was a league going off when I got there, but I didn't mind because I was going to be on the range for awhile. The tee was going to be free at 5 so I had plenty of time to warm up and get my videos recorded. I noticed the tee was free before 5 but I kept working on the range so that I could get a good buffer space between myself and the last league group. Then another 4 some pulls up from the league, they must have been running a bit late. No big deal, I still had a decent amount of range balls to use because I was being pretty slow and methodical with my practice. Another 10-15 minutes pass and I finish up on the range and head over to the tee. They are still in the fairway, granted it was cart path only, but only one person was walking to their ball at a time.... Oh well, I think, I can deal with it. I expected to have some struggles from implementing some swing changes anyway. Almost an hour later I finish up the third hole and walk over to towards the 4th tee. As one of the carts is pulling away the guy says "You're behind a league, buddy, hope that's ok" I just shrugged at him and set my bag down to wait. What I wanted to say is, "I know I'm behind a league, but you guys have been a hole and a half behind the people in front of you. So it's not slow because of the league, it's slow because of you." However, I decided to just keep quiet. By the time they were on their approach on 7, the group in front of them were on their approach on 9. All the other groups on the course were in position besides them. It took just about exactly 2 1/2 hours for me to walk 9 holes behind this group, it had to have take them close to 3 hours with the extra time I gave them before I started. I couldn't believe the guy thought that the fact they were playing "in a league" justified such a slow pace for their group. Had they been in position it would have taken right around 2 hours or a little less to finish, which would have been more than acceptable.

Funny that golfers think because they are in a league or tournament they should play at the pace the pros do.

I may take a few extra seconds reading a putt during a league or tournament but the only real difference is the amount of time I'll spend looking for a ball, otherwise I try to keep my pace as close to regular rounds as possible.  

Joe Paradiso

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6 minutes ago, newtogolf said:

Funny that golfers think because they are in a league or tournament they should play at the pace the pros do.

I may take a few extra seconds reading a putt during a league or tournament but the only real difference is the amount of time I'll spend looking for a ball, otherwise I try to keep my pace as close to regular rounds as possible.  

I probably wouldn't have minded if it was slow and they were in position behind the group in front of them, but because they were behind and continued to fall further behind it did get under my skin a bit. Had I been in a cart I may have jumped in front of them and played 8 and 9 then came back to 7, but since I was walking that wouldn't really have saved me much time and would have been quite a bit of extra walking. Last night was a bad night for people being considerate anyway, because it was cart path only and I turned around to see a couple of people in carts driving all over the place and pulling right up to greens and tees. Thankfully they quit playing once they finished hole 5, I think they had started on 6 or something to be ahead of the league.

KICK THE FLIP!!

In the bag:
:srixon: Z355

:callaway: XR16 3 Wood
:tmade: Aeroburner 19* 3 hybrid
:ping: I e1 irons 4-PW
:vokey: SM5 50, 60
:wilsonstaff: Harmonized Sole Grind 56 and Windy City Putter

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18 minutes ago, newtogolf said:

Funny that golfers think because they are in a league or tournament they should play at the pace the pros do.

I may take a few extra seconds reading a putt during a league or tournament but the only real difference is the amount of time I'll spend looking for a ball, otherwise I try to keep my pace as close to regular rounds as possible.  

I don't think emulating the pros is the issue. In league and tournaments casual golfers seem to get slower because they are doing things they don't usually do, strict rules, gimmies, etiquette etc. Maybe that is pro like now that I think about it. 

What really messed with the guys in our league is they don't know how to manage their time on the greens. Too much gabbing and poor preparation led to laboring over the short putts they usually would have kicked back to them it's good. Everyone would mark and stand around watching instead of planning. 

Dave :-)

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I went out to try to get 18 in yesterday. They had it cart path only and started everyone on the back nine. They tend to do that when leagues are on the back nine that day as to not create situations where people coming off 9 run into a 9 hole league.

There were 2-twosomes in front of me. I maybe waited on one or two shots the whole back nine. I get to the front nine and it's a 3 group back up on the first tee. The starter was sneaking off groups on the front nine so they wouldn't wait on the league on the back nine that started at 4:40.

Basically because he decided to try to appease a handful of groups and he created a roadblock for 3-4 groups who had committed and paid for 18 holes.

Matt Dougherty, P.E.
 fasdfa dfdsaf 

What's in My Bag
Driver; :pxg: 0311 Gen 5,  3-Wood: 
:titleist: 917h3 ,  Hybrid:  :titleist: 915 2-Hybrid,  Irons: Sub 70 TAIII Fordged
Wedges: :edel: (52, 56, 60),  Putter: :edel:,  Ball: :snell: MTB,  Shoe: :true_linkswear:,  Rangfinder: :leupold:
Bag: :ping:

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14 minutes ago, saevel25 said:

I went out to try to get 18 in yesterday. They had it cart path only and started everyone on the back nine. They tend to do that when leagues are on the back nine that day as to not create situations where people coming off 9 run into a 9 hole league.

There were 2-twosomes in front of me. I maybe waited on one or two shots the whole back nine. I get to the front nine and it's a 3 group back up on the first tee. The starter was sneaking off groups on the front nine so they wouldn't wait on the league on the back nine that started at 4:40.

Basically because he decided to try to appease a handful of groups and he created a roadblock for 3-4 groups who had committed and paid for 18 holes.

The sad thing is, I could have easily gotten the back 9 in also because it was wide open by the time I finished the front, but I wasn't able to play the back 9 to start because it had a league on it as well. I actually contemplated playing the back 9 but I was so frustrated it just wasn't worth it at that point. Strange that the starter messed up so badly at your course, they are supposed to be there to avoid that sort of situation where people sneak off the wrong side.

Edited by Jeremie Boop

KICK THE FLIP!!

In the bag:
:srixon: Z355

:callaway: XR16 3 Wood
:tmade: Aeroburner 19* 3 hybrid
:ping: I e1 irons 4-PW
:vokey: SM5 50, 60
:wilsonstaff: Harmonized Sole Grind 56 and Windy City Putter

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2 hours ago, saevel25 said:

I get to the front nine and it's a 3 group back up on the first tee. The starter was sneaking off groups on the front nine so they wouldn't wait on the league on the back nine that started at 4:40.

Basically because he decided to try to appease a handful of groups and he created a roadblock for 3-4 groups who had committed and paid for 18 holes.

that happened to me once and its bullshit.  my friend and i got the first tee time of the day so that we could get around in good time, we finished the front nine in 1:15 and come to the 10th to find groups playing.  we were like WTF??? and they said theres a small "league" that plays that day - the "league" being 4 groups of buddies who are good friends with the starters, we pleaded our case that there shouldnt have been anyone on the back impeding us if we had the first time of the day, but the starter just basically said "thats the way it is here, get used to it".

Colin P.

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4 hours ago, colin007 said:

that happened to me once and its bullshit.  my friend and i got the first tee time of the day so that we could get around in good time, we finished the front nine in 1:15 and come to the 10th to find groups playing.  we were like WTF??? and they said theres a small "league" that plays that day - the "league" being 4 groups of buddies who are good friends with the starters, we pleaded our case that there shouldnt have been anyone on the back impeding us if we had the first time of the day, but the starter just basically said "thats the way it is here, get used to it".

I don't understand your confusion.  Most of the courses I play send out 9 hole players on the back 9 for the first hour and a half of every day.  That just makes good business sense.  What I wouldn't understand is why a daily fee course would not do everything possible to maximize revenue.

Rick

"He who has the fastest cart will never have a bad lie."

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40 minutes ago, Fourputt said:

I don't understand your confusion.  Most of the courses I play send out 9 hole players on the back 9 for the first hour and a half of every day.  That just makes good business sense.  What I wouldn't understand is why a daily fee course would not do everything possible to maximize revenue.

Yup, same here.  I've taken advantage of this very deal a few times before work.  (Actually, I don't know if my course does this for the 90 minutes or 75 minutes or what because I always try for the very first time when it's available.)  I've also been on the other side of the coin, and while it's not ideal and a bit of a bummer, it's not unexpected.

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46 minutes ago, Fourputt said:

I don't understand your confusion.  Most of the courses I play send out 9 hole players on the back 9 for the first hour and a half of every day.  That just makes good business sense.  What I wouldn't understand is why a daily fee course would not do everything possible to maximize revenue.

That's a bit different than in the middle of the afternoon. The guy writes down our cart number, the time we teed off and should have a good sense of when we make the turn. He shouldn't be letting off people that close to when we make the turn to cause a backup. If he's going to let play on both nines then don't let people play 18 holes after a certain time in the day. It's just rude to charge for 18 holes just to screw them over by jamming up the turn. 

 

Matt Dougherty, P.E.
 fasdfa dfdsaf 

What's in My Bag
Driver; :pxg: 0311 Gen 5,  3-Wood: 
:titleist: 917h3 ,  Hybrid:  :titleist: 915 2-Hybrid,  Irons: Sub 70 TAIII Fordged
Wedges: :edel: (52, 56, 60),  Putter: :edel:,  Ball: :snell: MTB,  Shoe: :true_linkswear:,  Rangfinder: :leupold:
Bag: :ping:

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So if I have the first tee time of the day, I shouldn't expect to continue whatever pace I played at on the front when I make the turn?

Colin P.

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2 minutes ago, colin007 said:

So if I have the first tee time of the day, I shouldn't expect to continue whatever pace I played at on the front when I make the turn?

That's what it sounds like to me.  Get out early to play quickly, and still come to a screaming stop at the turn.

In David's bag....

Driver: Titleist 910 D-3;  9.5* Diamana Kai'li
3-Wood: Titleist 910F;  15* Diamana Kai'li
Hybrids: Titleist 910H 19* and 21* Diamana Kai'li
Irons: Titleist 695cb 5-Pw

Wedges: Scratch 51-11 TNC grind, Vokey SM-5's;  56-14 F grind and 60-11 K grind
Putter: Scotty Cameron Kombi S
Ball: ProV1

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1 hour ago, saevel25 said:

That's a bit different than in the middle of the afternoon. The guy writes down our cart number, the time we teed off and should have a good sense of when we make the turn. He shouldn't be letting off people that close to when we make the turn to cause a backup. If he's going to let play on both nines then don't let people play 18 holes after a certain time in the day. It's just rude to charge for 18 holes just to screw them over by jamming up the turn. 

Probably why he responded to Colin and not you, eh? ;-)

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1 minute ago, colin007 said:

So if I have the first tee time of the day, I shouldn't expect to continue whatever pace I played at on the front when I make the turn?

I wouldn't expect that at any course I play...on the other hand, I wouldn't expect that they'd allow a three-group backup either.

When I book early tee times (with the goal of playing extra-fast), I always ask this exact question.

One course I play regularly has 27 holes...they are pretty good at orchestrating things, but if you played your first 9 in 1:15 you'd be guaranteed to get held up as you'd be ahead of where they expected. 

- John

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  • Moderator
16 minutes ago, colin007 said:

So if I have the first tee time of the day, I shouldn't expect to continue whatever pace I played at on the front when I make the turn?

I know of a number of private clubs where, due to the extreme demand, they do front and back tees on weekends.  All the members understand the timing, and the first groups specifically don't try to race around because they know they can't start their second nine until a certain time.  Its a necessary evil to try to satisfy as many people as possible.  For a daily fee course, it makes sense to try to maximize income.  I couldn't define the exact right timing, but it all makes sense to me.

  • Upvote 1

Dave

:callaway: Rogue SubZero Driver

:titleist: 915F 15 Fairway, 816 H1 19 Hybrid, AP2 4 iron to PW, Vokey 52, 56, and 60 wedges, ProV1 balls 
:ping: G5i putter, B60 version
 :ping:Hoofer Bag, complete with Newport Cup logo
:footjoy::true_linkswear:, and Ashworth shoes

the only thing wrong with this car is the nut behind the wheel.

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Note: This thread is 2588 days old. We appreciate that you found this thread instead of starting a new one, but if you plan to post here please make sure it's still relevant. If not, please start a new topic. Thank you!

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