The Definitive Pace of Play Thread

[Braivo]

8 minutes ago, phillyk said:

I want to bring this thread back.  I was perusing the Jason Day pace thread, and I thought of my last tournament and I got thinking about yardage books. I don't know if it was discussed in the previous 37 pages, but one of the guys I was playing with in this last event had his yardage book out for almost every shot.  He's played the course multiple times for other tournaments so he keeps notes.  We were a 3-some and although we waited a few times for the 4-some in front of us, I feel like we were still slow.  I knew this guy was slow but I think it was because he took so long to think about club selection or how he wanted to play the shot.  Granted, he ended up winning the event with a 67, but it seemed unnecessary to think about the shot for that long.

I think the same thing happens with Tour players but on a longer scale. 2 things, first they can't carry distance measuring devices, so the fact of counting off the steps from a water head then seeing how many paces from the middle or front of green the pin is, and putting it together will take longer than a device.  Next, they take their yardage book out anyway to confirm where contours of green are, maybe where the tiers or ridges are, how far to clear a sand trap, whatever the case.  Heck on the green, I remember watching Matsuyama looking at his yardage book for a putt. It's like a topographic map sometimes showing every little break.  Then he'll go about his normal reading the green routine.  Either way, their round takes longer than it should because they have that added step of taking notes or reading notes in their yardage books that most of us will never do in a round.  Not that this is the only thing, but it is an added step to the game.

With all of the golf GPS tracking devices like Game Golf and watches, etc. we should be able to start getting macro data on pace of play. Right now we can speculate all we want about what makes up slow play, but the data won't lie. Is it searching for lost balls? Is it pre-shot routine? Poor play? 

I saw Tiger play in 3 hours at the Target World Challenge when playing solo, and he wasn't rushing. So the size of group, obviously comes into play. 

[Marty2019]

On 1/11/2017 at 10:54 AM, Braivo said:

With all of the golf GPS tracking devices like Game Golf and watches, etc. we should be able to start getting macro data on pace of play. Right now we can speculate all we want about what makes up slow play, but the data won't lie. Is it searching for lost balls? Is it pre-shot routine? Poor play? 

I saw Tiger play in 3 hours at the Target World Challenge when playing solo, and he wasn't rushing. So the size of group, obviously comes into play. 

In my opinion, slow play is caused by bad golf, nothing else.  All the slow play I see, whether it's in my own group or the group in front of me, is caused by searching for lost balls. 

I also think you could speed up play by giving everyone their own cart.  If I hit my ball to the right side of the fairway, and my cart-mate hooks his ball into the woods on the left, not only are we searching for his ball, but then we have to drive all the way back across the fairway to where my ball is.  If everyone had their own cart, I could have been at my ball figuring out the distance and selecting my club while he drove his little circles in the woods.  I might even go ahead and hit my shot.  Then I could yell at him to get going. 

You can probably tell, this is a pet peeve of mine.  My playing partners hit their drives into the woods.   Man, I am sick of that. 

[Missouri Swede]

3 hours ago, Marty2019 said:

If everyone had their own cart, I could have been at my ball figuring out the distance and selecting my club while he drove his little circles in the woods.  I might even go ahead and hit my shot.  Then I could yell at him to get going. 

You (generic you, not you personally) can do the same thing with two people using one cart. As he drops you off at your ball, you probably have a real good idea of which 2 or 3 clubs you will want to pick from for your shot. Grab those and he can head off on safari. 

[iacas]

11 hours ago, Marty2019 said:

In my opinion, slow play is caused by bad golf, nothing else.

Good players can be slow too.

Heck, attend a Tour, college, or even high level junior event.

[David in FL]

4 minutes ago, iacas said:

Good players can be slow too.

Heck, attend a Tour, college, or even high level junior event.

^^^ This...

...and bad players can play quickly.

[Braivo]

On 1/14/2017 at 6:33 AM, Marty2019 said:

In my opinion, slow play is caused by bad golf, nothing else.  All the slow play I see, whether it's in my own group or the group in front of me, is caused by searching for lost balls. 

I also think you could speed up play by giving everyone their own cart.  If I hit my ball to the right side of the fairway, and my cart-mate hooks his ball into the woods on the left, not only are we searching for his ball, but then we have to drive all the way back across the fairway to where my ball is.  If everyone had their own cart, I could have been at my ball figuring out the distance and selecting my club while he drove his little circles in the woods.  I might even go ahead and hit my shot.  Then I could yell at him to get going. 

You can probably tell, this is a pet peeve of mine.  My playing partners hit their drives into the woods.   Man, I am sick of that. 

I agree with this. An innovation in cart technology, giving each player their own would definitely speed play. Also, I notice that pace of play is significantly faster on courses where the underbrush is cleared and balls are easy to find even in wooded areas, etc. In addition, cutting the rough to a reasonably short length helps too. Players playing from tees that are too long for their ability is a big problem as well. I noticed my home course moves all of the tees up on weekends, that seems to keep things moving along. 

[dennyjones]

I play as a single quite a bit, occasionally pairing with other golfers.   It's amazing the pace differences I see.    The usual when I'm paired with unfamiliar golfers is slow...

As a single I can easily play just a tad over 2:30.   But...when I play with my regular foursome, we play about 4:15.   It's painful at times to play slow.

Bad golf contributes to the slow play but a lot of people won't play ready golf.  

[jkelley9]

I never really thought of that before, but a 1-man cart would be pretty sweet! I'm coming up with all kinds of cute ideas and advantages in my head lol.

Not saying that's the/a problem, but I think it's a cool idea.

[Vinny Cap]

It's more than lost balls.  I think one of the biggest issues is that most golfers don't know how to play ready golf.  I see this all the time.  I have only been playing for 5 - 6 years and regularly see 90% of the course not ready to shoot.  They fumble with clubs, drive here and there, look for a ball or tee, multiple practice swings, goof with the GPS or range finder, inspect every nook and cranny of the sand trap and over read the green while everyone watches them.  We all know there are more but I don't want to be typing forever. 

I have asked a few about some of the items above and have often heard "I payed to play so I will take as long as I like" or something similar.  BULL!

Why can someone who has only been playing a couple of years (me) play in a lil over 3 hrs?  Because I play ready golf!  Sure I have played longer rounds but that's because we were behind a slow group.  It's the trickle down effect.  We are always right behind the group in front of us and when we are open in front, the round is always less than 4 hrs.

It starts at the first tee.  Stretch out before you move to the tee box.  Take some warm ups swings before you move to the tee box.  When you get there tee it up and hit it!  When heading toward your balls, split up.  Drop off the closer golfer and then head to the longer shot.  I know my yardages pretty good so no need to fumble with clubs or multiple clubs.  Gee, I see the 150 marker... I am about 10 yards behind it so I grab my 160 club.  One or two practice swings, hit the ball and start walking up to the cart.

If you hit it OB and didn't hit a provisional, 2 mins looking and then drop one and add two strokes.  You are not playing Augusta!

In the sand?  Walk in with SW, line it up, hit it out and rake the trap so it look good for the next guy.

Putting.... well here is where a lot of time is lost.  As I walk to the green, I start to read it.  Go and mark the ball and look at the other side.  Line up ball, couple quick practice strokes and putt the ball!  Sneds is my putting guy.  He is fast and I kinda putt like him.

Know how far you can hit it so you don't do the classic "I'm gonna let them clear the green cause once I him my 3 wood 300 yards!"  This is total BS.  Know your clubs so you can hit it instead of waiting.  This will always put you right behind the guys in front of you and everyone will be happy as they have just played in under 4 hrs.

 

[CarlSpackler]

[Patch]

Almost 700 replies, and still no answers to the issue. The issue still remains a sore spot for many. 

I still like my slow or fast designations for different days of the week. Example might be faster players play on Mon/Wed/Fri. Slower players play on Tue/Thurs/Sat. Sunday would be designated for all speeds. A golfer of any speed, could still play any day of the week. However, if a faster golfer showed up to play on a designated slow day, they knew going in what to expect. Same with a slower golfer showing up on a designated faster day. Those of us with plenty of time on our hands could play anytime without any thought of that day's designated pace of play. 

This idea benefits everybody. First there are no wholesale changes to the game. Each golf course could cater to their own golfers, and designate the days accordingly. There would be no change in green fee structures. No additional workers needed to process pace of play. The golfers themselves could schedule their own rounds, based on their own, known pace of play. It would be mandatory on fast play days, that faster players be allowed to play through when held up. On slow play days, the slower players could allow faster players to play through at their own choice. 

Not a complete cure to the problem, but I think it is still viable. 

[dennyjones]

18 minutes ago, Patch said:

The golfers themselves could schedule their own rounds, based on their own, known pace of play.

In theory, that sounds great.    Most weekend golfers will tell you they play fast even if they play over 4:15.   Their ego will dictate that they play with the faster players.    Not unlike everyone that hits a good drive thinks they hit the ball 300 yards!

[Hatchman]

I've seen here locally where it depends on what day of the week you play, what time, and how many players even though a foursome was mentioned.  They often stack a hole with golfers tee, fairway, and green.   But all should be ready to go.  Those days are rough, and when vacationers are in town but I understand playing a new course.

[Bucki1968]

I'm glad to see some posts about "ready golf". I don't see much of that. Ready golf used to be a hot topic years ago (commercials etc.). I played yesterday with a buddy (twosome) late in the day and we were behind a threesome who consistently hit two tee balls on every hole because they couldn't keep it on the golf course. Then they drove across the street to retrieve the lost balls out of people's yards (which the course frowns upon). Bad play and the lack of ready golf have really been the major causes of slow play. We played the entire front 9 in an hour and fifteen minutes, it took us that long to play four holes on the back nine....so we just quit and went into the clubhouse for a beer. I also think that I was lucky to have been a caddy growing up so I could learn golf course etiquette.

[iacas]

Friday I played 18 holes with another player (a kid on the college team). We waited on the last five holes a little bit for a single (he was old and not moving so quickly. I pushed my cart, the other guy carried his bag. He had to get his towel on 16 tee - it was 100 yards back in 15 fairway.

From the time we teed off until we finished… 2:30 elapsed. I was in my car leaving the golf course, after chatting with him in the parking lot for ten minutes, well under 3 hours after he arrived.

Yes, it helps that we played in about 140 shots between us, but I have no doubt a foursome would have taken about 3:00 to play those 18 holes.

With foursomes on all of the holes, 3:30 is reasonable. Time spent looking for balls can be made up by not waiting a little on the next few holes.

Slow play… boooo.