Should golf do away with bunkers?

[Strandly]

Fairway bunkers seem like sort of a waste to me.  Most of the ones I've seen aren't in tricky spots, there just... there, and landing in them is usually a result of bad luck more than anything.

Greenside bunkers are critical and should stay though.

The biggest problem is maintenance.  Most of the bunkers I find are rock hard.  How difficult could it be to run a garden tiller through them once or a week or whatever?  Geez...

[Fourputt]

What about using grass bunkers? I have played some courses that use grass bunkers instead of regular bunkers and I actually liked the idea and concept. Still played as a hazard. And there is nothing more frustrating that not knowing how the ball is going to come out. I played a bunker shot the other day and the sand looked great, but it was only about an inch deep and under that was clay and when I hit the shot, my club went through the fine sand, hit the clay underneath and my club just bounced really hard off it and shot my ball directly right. Talk about being pissed off! Bunkers just don't seem to be very well taken care of on most courses.

Grass bunker is bad terminology since the rules only recognize sand bunkers - what you refer to would simply be a grassy depression and be treated as through the green by the rules.  Every one I've ever seen had nasty tangled grass at least 4 inches deep.  They are significantly harder to play from than sand - in fact it's easy to lose a ball in them even when you saw exactly where the ball landed.  There is one of those grassy messes on the course that I played yesterday, and my buddy took more than a minute to find his ball in it, then took two strokes to get out, knocking his ball all the way across the green into a real sand bunker.  He took a 7 on a 135 yard par 3.

Bunker

A "bunker" is a hazard consisting of a prepared area of ground, often a hollow, from which turf or soil has been removed and replaced with sand or the like.

Grass-covered ground bordering or within a bunker, including a stacked turf face (whether grass-covered or earthen), is not part of the bunker. A wall or lip of the bunker not covered with grass is part of the bunker. The margin of a bunker extends vertically downwards, but not upwards.

A ball is in a bunker when it lies in or any part of it touches the bunker.

[Lihu]

Bunkers are an integral part of golf, and this site's name would have to be changed if we got rid of them.

There is one of those grassy messes on the course that I played yesterday, and my buddy took more than a minute to find his ball in it, then took two strokes to get out, knocking his ball all the way across the green into a real sand bunker.  He took a 7 on a 135 yard par 3.

Ouch, a 7? tee shot + 2 to get out of the green stuff + 2 putts and 2 out of the trap? I haven't even made ESC on a par 3 lately, and that really sounds painful. You did get him a consolation , right?

[Fourputt]

Bunkers are an integral part of golf, and this site's name would have to be changed if we got rid of them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fourputt

There is one of those grassy messes on the course that I played yesterday, and my buddy took more than a minute to find his ball in it, then took two strokes to get out, knocking his ball all the way across the green into a real sand bunker.  He took a 7 on a 135 yard par 3.

Ouch, a 7? tee shot + 2 to get out of the green stuff + 2 putts and 2 out of the trap? I haven't even made ESC on a par 3 lately, and that really sounds painful. You did get him a consolation , right?

Actually it was a 3 putt to a difficult pin.

[Aguirre]

You can ground your club in a grass "bunker" so yeah, that's not the correct term technically.  But we all know what that means colloquially.

Grass bunkers are a perfect alternative to expensive sand bunkers, but I wouldn't want them to replace them completely.  And you can keep grass bunkers at the level of the rest of the rough.  And they can still play very difficult, particularly if you're on the backside of one, or in the flat with a lot of height needed to land the ball on the green resulting in a lot of overspin.

[WUTiger]

...

•Recently, it seems every golf architect uses sand traps as their medium of expression. Course finances are paying the price for that extravagance. Look at some of the more classic designs from MacKenzie, Ross, etc. They didn’t design courses with the sand traps being the key visual feature. ...

http://www.infinitevarietygolf.com/phil-deception.html

Quote:

Originally Posted by SavvySwede

But I agree that course designers need to ease up on the bunkering. There really is no point in putting a bunch of fairway bunkers in places a decent player rarely hit their ball. It just unfairly punishes the high handicapper, slows play, and not worth the upkeep. Placement needs to be more strategic.

Many modern courses have more severe greenside bunkers as a response to the lob wedge.

Also, I'm not wild about holes where you have to cross the water twice, and still dodge a dozen sand bunkers. As far as construction and later maintenance costs go, mostly sand or mostly water makes more sense.

... For what its worth, I believe good architects use bunkers not just to penalize a player, but to guide the player in how the hole should be     played. ...

Valid points also.

=============

As far as bunker condition goes, one local course got into trouble with overambitious plans. It was one of the housing development courses built in the 1990s. It's a good course, but the original owner only sold about half the available lots.

He envisioned Winged Foot West, but ended up in semi-private limbo. He just didn't sell enough pricy equity memberships to draw an upscale clientele that could pay for the maintenance.

The course has too many heroically shaped bunkers that are difficult to maintain on modest semi-private revenues. As the land settled, many became unviable and were covered over. Also, some bunkers are so steep that shorter women and senior players need help to get in and out without injury.

A couple dozen bunkers that are properly built and easy to maintain should be doable for most courses. Going back to the classics, St. Louis Country Club has a number of deep bunkers that are easy to maintain. The trick: The bunkers have steep banks, but are flat-bottomed and allow ease of entry to walk into the "back door." Easy to walk in and out of, but difficult to get a ball out of.

[Fourputt]

You can ground your club in a grass "bunker" so yeah, that's not the correct term technically.  But we all know what that means colloquially.

Grass bunkers are a perfect alternative to expensive sand bunkers, but I wouldn't want them to replace them completely.  And you can keep grass bunkers at the level of the rest of the rough.  And they can still play very difficult, particularly if you're on the backside of one, or in the flat with a lot of height needed to land the ball on the green resulting in a lot of overspin.

You can accomplish the same thing strategically with mounds, and the mounds drain better than grassy depressions, as well as doing a better job of helping to define the green.

[Aguirre]

You can accomplish the same thing strategically with mounds, and the mounds drain better than grassy depressions, as well as doing a better job of helping to define the green.

You can do both.

[Fourputt]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fourputt

You can accomplish the same thing strategically with mounds, and the mounds drain better than grassy depressions, as well as doing a better job of helping to define the green.

You can do both.

I just don't get it.  The rules are stupid, bunkers are just in the way, divots should be outlawed, and don't even mention stroke and distance for out of bounds.  Totally nonsensical.  Why do some of you even bother to play golf?

[Duff McGee]

I just don't get it.  The rules are stupid, bunkers are just in the way, divots should be outlawed, and don't even mention stroke and distance for out of bounds.  Totally nonsensical.  Why do some of you even bother to play golf? :blink:

I don't get it.

[Mac62]

One of our local courses is in such terrible condition that I purposely aim for the bunkers because they're the best lie on the course!

[boogielicious]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fourputt

I just don't get it.  The rules are stupid, bunkers are just in the way, divots should be outlawed, and don't even mention stroke and distance for out of bounds.  Totally nonsensical.  Why do some of you even bother to play golf?

I don't get it.

It is sarcasm. We all complain about the difficulty of golf course set ups, forced carries, water, hazards and rules more than we talk about what we love about the game that keeps us playing.

Golf is Hard. The courses and hazards in general are designed to make it hard even for scratch golfers. As higher handicaps, we see those hazards as more of an impediment to our progress and not for what they are, a challenge. Embrace the challenge and don't worry as much about the number you get.

[Duff McGee]

It is sarcasm. We all complain about the difficulty of golf course set ups, forced carries, water, hazards and rules more than we talk about what we love about the game that keeps us playing. Golf is Hard. The courses and hazards in general are designed to make it hard even for scratch golfers. As higher handicaps, we see those hazards as more of an impediment to our progress and not for what they are, a challenge. Embrace the challenge and don't worry as much about the number you get.

I mean I don't understand his response to what someone wrote. It looked like he was talking to the guy that said "you can do both." Maybe a misquote?

[Aguirre]

I just don't get it.  The rules are stupid, bunkers are just in the way, divots should be outlawed, and don't even mention stroke and distance for out of bounds.  Totally nonsensical.  Why do some of you even bother to play golf?

You off your meds or something?

[Fourputt]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fourputt

I just don't get it.  The rules are stupid, bunkers are just in the way, divots should be outlawed, and don't even mention stroke and distance for out of bounds.  Totally nonsensical.  Why do some of you even bother to play golf?

You off your meds or something?

Just expressing my puzzlement over people who always want to change the way things are rather than make the effort to learn to deal with them.  It comes up in 3/4 of the rules threads, and now it comes to bunkers and course design.  If I play a course and I don't like the way it plays, I don't go back there.  I don't come online and lobby for them to change it because it's apparent that some people must like it or it wouldn't be designed that way.  I can always find another course that suits my preferences better.

[Aguirre]

Just expressing my puzzlement over people who always want to change the way things are rather than make the effort to learn to deal with them.  It comes up in 3/4 of the rules threads, and now it comes to bunkers and course design.  If I play a course and I don't like the way it plays, I don't go back there.  I don't come online and lobby for them to change it because it's apparent that some people must like it or it wouldn't be designed that way.  I can always find another course that suits my preferences better.

Bunkers are expensive and courses are cutting costs.  Using grass "bunkers" or mounding are ways that can lower maintenance overhead while still preserving a penalty for missing a green in the wrong spots.  This is a practical, economic decision many courses can make.  But wrap yourself in some golf purity shroud if you wish.  And take your meds.

[Fourputt]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fourputt

Just expressing my puzzlement over people who always want to change the way things are rather than make the effort to learn to deal with them.  It comes up in 3/4 of the rules threads, and now it comes to bunkers and course design.  If I play a course and I don't like the way it plays, I don't go back there.  I don't come online and lobby for them to change it because it's apparent that some people must like it or it wouldn't be designed that way.  I can always find another course that suits my preferences better.

Bunkers are expensive and courses are cutting costs.  Using grass "bunkers" or mounding are ways that can lower maintenance overhead while still preserving a penalty for missing a green in the wrong spots.  This is a practical, economic decision many courses can make.  But wrap yourself in some golf purity shroud if you wish.  And take your meds.

You don't need to be either petty or personal.  I ignored the first time, but you are becoming tedious.  I've done nothing to attack you so back off.

Reasonable bunkers are not costly to maintain.  Every muni and public course I've played in the last 40 years has had a significant number of bunkers with the exception of two courses, and everyone of those courses is still in business.  Most of them have sensible bunkering that doesn't really cost any more to maintain than any other feature on the course.  Reasonably designed bunkers don't have to be groomed daily, they don't need sand added weekly.  I generally see bunkers being groomed a couple of times a week at most.  This is not a major course expense.

These are not bunkers which are 10 feet deep with steep slopes and 6" deep sand.  Bunkers can be functional without the steep faces that take constant work to maintain.  Courses that feel they have to look like the ones the pros play had better be prepared to foot the bill for keeping them up.  Otherwise, plant that 5 foot high, 60° face in grass, let it grow a couple of inches deep, and it will serve just as well as a sand face and cost a fraction as much to maintain.  Cut a new lip for definition and you will still have a bunker which serves the needed function of protecting the green.  The sand is still just as far below the green but now whatever type of sand you put in will mostly stay where it belongs, maybe requiring additions a couple of times a year to replace what the players blast out.  Nothing unaffordable about it.

[Lihu]

Some places are naturally desert too, and bunkers are actually the natural surrounding scenery. In our area, we should probably stop watering them, and make them even bigger so we don't use as much water. Just a thought.