Provisional Question

[oudrees]

On one of my holes today, a partner hooked his balls into a patch of trees that have recently been marked with red stakes around them.  The ball got up in the sun as it was hooking and everyone lost track of it.  The patch of trees is about 20 feet from out of bound with a cart path in between.  Balls hooked into the trees could easily take a bad bounce and hop out of bounds (I've done it).   We weren't sure how bad he hooked it into them, so I recommended hitting a provisional in case it made it through.  One of the other guys in the group (who proclaims himself a rule expert) said that if he hit a provisional, then that was his ball because he lost it into the hazard.  If you think your ball went into a hazard, then hitting another ball means you are giving up on the previous one and taking S & D.  I disagreed because his ball could of kicked OB.  I am attaching a pic of the hole.  The trees circled in red have red stakes all around the patch.  The blue is marked with white stakes and the green was our Tee Box.  Those trees protect the corner on a dog leg left, so people are always trying to go over them

[Martyn W]

You are correct. Just show the 'expert' 27-2

If a ball may be lost outside a water hazard or may be out of bounds , to save time the player may play another ball provisionally in accordance with Rule 27-1 .

(my bold)

[oudrees]

Thanks, he apparently just doesn't like provisionals because there was a shot I hit that I thought may of kicked ob so I was going to hit one. He sent the other cart to go look for it instead of me hitting one

[Fourputt]

Thanks, he apparently just doesn't like provisionals because there was a shot I hit that I thought may of kicked ob so I was going to hit one. He sent the other cart to go look for it instead of me hitting one

You still had the right to play a provisional ball.  Tell him to go soak his head.

[oudrees]

I play with a group of guys that are 25-30 years older than me and a lot more experienced in the rules than I am so I let it go. Respecting my elders

[Fourputt]

I play with a group of guys that are 25-30 years older than me and a lot more experienced in the rules than I am so I let it go. Respecting my elders

Rick

"He who has the fastest cart will never have a bad lie."

[David in FL]

You still had the right to play a provisional ball.  Tell him to go soak his head.

Yup. Just because another player doesn't know, or believe the rule, doesn't mean that it doesn't exist. You don't need permission to play correctly.

[Rulesman]

I play with a group of guys that are 25-30 years older than me and a lot more experienced in the rules than I am so I let it go. Respecting my elders

[DrvFrShow]

See I learned some rules, too, when I played a year back in the day. My first time out with the league I had a whole new game to learn. My first comment after someone told me that rule was changed 30 years ago was "get off my lawn."

[Bill926]

So you hit a tee shot into the desert that may be lost, and take a provisional. You get up there and find the ball in a shrub or something, but it is unplayable and your only option is to re-tee.  Why can't you just use the provisional you already hit?  Does it really make sense that you would have to go back and hit again?

[DaveP043]

So you hit a tee shot into the desert that may be lost, and take a provisional. You get up there and find the ball in a shrub or something, but it is unplayable and your only option is to re-tee.  Why can't you just use the provisional you already hit?  Does it really make sense that you would have to go back and hit again?

This has been discussed a few times before, but here we go again.  If your ball is unplayable, under the rules you have 3 options, each of which includes adding a penalty stroke to your score.

Replay the shot that got you there

Drop within two club lengths of the current spot, no closer to the hole

Drop, keeping the current spot between you and the hole, going back as far as you like.

If you know the result of one of those options (i.e. the location of your provisional ball), that knowledge can influence your choice.  Under the rules, your choice must be made not knowing how your next shot will turn out, so your provisional ball becomes out of play once you find your original ball.  For instance, if your provisional is also in the desert, wouldn't you look a little harder at options 2 and 3 for your original unplayable?

[David in FL]

[quote name="Bill926" url="/t/83996/provisional-question#post_1207030"]So you hit a tee shot into the desert that may be lost, and take a provisional. You get up there and find the ball in a shrub or something, but it is unplayable and your only option is to re-tee.  Why can't you just use the provisional you already hit?  Does it really make sense that you would have to go back and hit again? [/quote] The player in your example actually has several options available to him.... Rule 28 - Ball Unplayable The player may deem his ball unplayable at any place on the course, except when the ball is in a water hazard. The player is the sole judge as to whether his ball is unplayable. If the player deems his ball to be unplayable, he must, under penalty of one stroke: a. Proceed under the stroke and distance provision of Rule 27-1 by playing a ball as nearly as possible at the spot from which the original ball was last played (see Rule 20-5); or b. Drop a ball behind the point where the ball lay, keeping that point directly between the hole and the spot on which the ball is dropped, with no limit to how far behind that point the ball may be dropped; or c. Drop a ball within two club-lengths of the spot where the ball lay, but not nearer the hole. The answer to your question though is because the Principles behind the rules do not ever allow for a player to have two balls in play at the same time and thus, having the option of choosing between the two.

[Bill926]

If you know the result of one of those options (i.e. the location of your provisional ball), that knowledge can influence your choice.  Under the rules, your choice must be made not knowing how your next shot will turn out, so your provisional ball becomes out of play once you find your original ball.  For instance, if your provisional is also in the desert, wouldn't you look a little harder at options 2 and 3 for your original unplayable?

The answer to your question though is because the Principles behind the rules do not ever allow for a player to have two balls in play at the same time and thus, having the option of choosing between the two.

I know the rule but didn't agree with it.  The answers given in both of the replies above helps it make more sense though. Thanks

[DaveP043]

@Bill926 , if you read through the threads in the Rules of Golf area, you'll find lots of people who disagree with lots of the rules.  For better or worse, the rules have evolved to where they are today, and I doubt that we'll see huge changes within our lifetimes.

Another thing you'll see if you read through this forum, most of us will suggest that in casual rounds you should do what you feel is appropriate, considering the level of competitiveness within your group, and considering pace of play, and do your best to write down the appropriate score for handicap purposes, assuming you keep one.  I doubt that any of us play every round of golf in strict accordance to every rule.

Welcome to TheSandTrap!

[RGoosen]

@Bill926 , if you read through the threads in the Rules of Golf area, you'll find lots of people who disagree with lots of the rules.  For better or worse, the rules have evolved to where they are today, and I doubt that we'll see huge changes within our lifetimes.   Another thing you'll see if you read through this forum, most of us will suggest that in casual rounds you should do what you feel is appropriate, considering the level of competitiveness within your group, and considering pace of play, and do your best to write down the appropriate score for handicap purposes, assuming you keep one.  I doubt that any of us play every round of golf in strict accordance to every rule.   Welcome to TheSandTrap!

Well said!

[Bill926]

This is a good rule to know.  I play a lot of tournament golf and this one has probably been overlooked once or twice, mainly because we are told to take a provisional if there may be any question (for pace of play reasons), and because nobody understood the rule.

I was just reading about this on a tournament page where someone got dq'd for playing his provisional in this case. Although, his playing partner didn't say anything until they got to the scoring table, which is another story.

[RGoosen]

This is a good rule to know.  I play a lot of tournament golf and this one has probably been overlooked once or twice, mainly because we are told to take a provisional if there may be any question (for pace of play reasons), and because nobody understood the rule. I was just reading about this on a tournament page where someone got dq'd for playing his provisional in this case. Although, his playing partner didn't say anything until they got to the scoring table, which is another story.

So the playing partner pulled a Suzanne Peterson??? :)

[Shorty]

So the playing partner pulled a Suzanne Peterson??? :)

What ? Played by the rules? Why are you slurring someone who has done nothing wrong?