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I think the primary issue is the cost of living has raised substantially more than wages.

I believe more and more people would be less resentful of their pay if they actually didn't have to feel like they were struggling against all the debt.

It's one of the reason's why the housing market crashed. Home prices went through the ceiling. The only way for people to get money was to get these outrageous loans that they couldn't afford. This inflated the housing market even more. Also these loans were rated incorrectly as well, and were subsidized by the Federal Government.

I can see why people put a lot of money onto credit cards. When you have no other option than to just go into massive debt. Given some people do abuse it and just live with the consequences. I am sure there are a lot of people who just wished they could be able to not have to worry about paying rent for the next month.

This is why I think the whole system needs fixed such that it helps lowers the prices of certain goods and services to help lower the cost of living.

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The Paris thread was careening wildly off-topic, so I'm moving my response here: Why'd you send your kid to school if you have such disdain for higher educa

- 1500s: Scientists said the Earth was the COTU because the church threatened to murder them if they didn't.  - 1960s: The "global cooling" theory had littl

I've decided to run for president....                       So I can play more GOLF!!!!!   Wooooooo!!!!         (that's all I got)

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I think the primary issue is the cost of living has raised substantially more than wages.

I believe more and more people would be less resentful of their pay if they actually didn't have to feel like they were struggling against all the debt.

It's one of the reason's why the housing market crashed. Home prices went through the ceiling. The only way for people to get money was to get these outrageous loans that they couldn't afford. This inflated the housing market even more. Also these loans were rated incorrectly as well, and were subsidized by the Federal Government.

I can see why people put a lot of money onto credit cards. When you have no other option than to just go into massive debt. Given some people do abuse it and just live with the consequences. I am sure there are a lot of people who just wished they could be able to not have to worry about paying rent for the next month.

This is why I think the whole system needs fixed such that it helps lowers the prices of certain goods and services to help lower the cost of living.

One thing I've noticed through the years is what people spend scales up with what they make. It's more of an issue of being able to budget well. If a person is used to making 15k-20K a year and they suddenly make 31k a year, most will end up in the same position they were at because their spending will increase. They'll get a better house, a newer car, increase their cable/satellite packages, etc. It sort of reminds me of the sad statistics regarding how people who win the lottery end up broke. Read somewhere that as high as 70% of people who win the lottery end up broke.

I agree that prices have risen faster than pay, but just as big a problem is that people have gotten less smart with the way they spend their money. Much more revolving debt than there was back when. Used to be, if you didn't have the money for something, you didn't buy it. Now you charge it to a credit card or get a loan and pay interest and always have debt hanging over you. *General "you" usage of course*

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One thing I've noticed through the years is what people spend scales up with what they make. It's more of an issue of being able to budget well. If a person is used to making 15k-20K a year and they suddenly make 31k a year, most will end up in the same position they were at because their spending will increase. They'll get a better house, a newer car, increase their cable/satellite packages, etc. It sort of reminds me of the sad statistics regarding how people who win the lottery end up broke. Read somewhere that as high as 70% of people who win the lottery end up broke.

Exactly.

My wife and I have made an effort to not change our lifestyle anymore as our income goes up and to try and spend the same as before any raises, promotions etc......but then the golf bug bit me

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Exactly.

My wife and I have made an effort to not change our lifestyle anymore as our income goes up and to try and spend the same as before any raises, promotions etc......but then the golf bug bit me

I'd almost say it should be illegal to have a certain amount of debt. If you get a credit card, the credit limit is the max total that is allowable on all the cards you have together. Meaning, you can only carry over, lets say 5% your monthly income in debt that is not student loans, car loans, business loans, or home loans.

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General financial education is missing from most high schools and colleges. Even middle schools. I scored a 4 on the Calculus AP exam in HS but didn't know the first thing about basic financial education. It should be a required course, even a year-long one with some history of finance mixed in - how markets work, how the rich invest, tax structures, etc.

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General financial education is missing from most high schools and colleges. Even middle schools. I scored a 4 on the Calculus AP exam in HS but didn't know the first thing about basic financial education. It should be a required course, even a year-long one with some history of finance mixed in - how markets work, how the rich invest, tax structures, etc.

Good idea.

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General financial education is missing from most high schools and colleges. Even middle schools. I scored a 4 on the Calculus AP exam in HS but didn't know the first thing about basic financial education. It should be a required course, even a year-long one with some history of finance mixed in - how markets work, how the rich invest, tax structures, etc.

Agreed, I didn't have any finance classes until I went to college and the first one I had was with a professor who opened my eyes.  His objective (already had made millions in the market, highly educated man, Indian, all of 4 foot 11, brilliant individual and a mentor) was to educate and help 100 people become millionaires.  He taught us what was in the books, and also what he did that worked.  That class is why I ended up electing finance as a major and made a career out of it.  Still haven't made it to millionaire status but took a lot of his lessons to heart.  Funny thing is lots of finance professionals are horrible with their own personal finances.

Had several great finance professors, one was hillarious, a stock broker from back in the day.  "Working on Wall Street is a hell of a thing.  It's a good living if you can make it, but I'll tell ya, if your engaged it won't work, married, you will get a divorce.  You get in, check the ticker tape, coke break, market opens, trade, take a coke break. Trade more, lunch, lil coke, trade again trying to make up what you lost in the morning session.  But if you can stick with it, its a good living".  Was funny stuff, another great professor.  Miss those guys.

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  • 3 weeks later...

I decided to start this thread in the spirit of discussing politics outside of the lense of Donald Trump.

So, I'll start:

I'm a liberal, leftist democrat who is rooting for Bernie Sanders and hopes to volunteer for his campaign. I'm a fan of Sander's "Nordic Model", in terms of economic systems.

I like Hilary, but she isn't left enough for me. But I will vote for her in the Presidential election, should she win the nomination.

I don't like conservative politics, at all, but if I had to pick one Republican, I'd choose John Kasich. Actually, I'd pick Romney when he was governor of Massechusetts, but that man seems to have disappeared for good.

I am a social liberal leaning, registered republican.

I am agnostic jew, a public servant married to a innercity teacher, with many Gay friends.

For some reason conservatives dont like me!

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  • 2 weeks later...
I support Bernie Sanders for the Democratic nomination and John Kasich for the Republican nomination. Neither will win, but hey. I am a left-leaning Orwellian Socialist who strongly favors the Scandinavian health care model, gay rights, climate change management, parental leave, and Planned Parenthood. On guns, I am more in the middle. A strong atheist with somewhat iconclastic beliefs. I am also Pro-Palestine. Anybody but Hillary or a Republican please. You'll be doing me a big favor if you run Elizabeth Warren.
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  • 3 weeks later...

I am a Conservative.  Staunch Conservative!  I used to be a Bluedog Democrat.  I am a registered Democrat but will NEVER vote Democrat again.  As I always say, "I know what I know but I know what I know.  Some people know what they know but they don't know what they know.  I know what I know and I know what I know.  You know!"  IOWs,  I've lived it.  Why do liberals have so little faith in the ability of people to support themselves?  Whey do they create institutional slavery by making people dependent upon the government.  Oh, I know that sounds "mean" and is not PC.  I'm not PC.

Bishop, I'm sure you're a good guy and care about others.  I do too.  The difference is that you think it is the governments job to take care of them and I think each man take care of their own.  I was born to dire poverty.  Dire!  People think that they know what poverty is when, in fact, they are clueless.  My Mom and Dad were sharecroppers when I was born.  I lived in a one room shack and seven of us lived there.  We didn't have electricity, running water, ...  We went hungry all of the time.  I saw my Grandfather hold my sister as she died.  At one point, the state showed up to take us kids.  You know how scary that is?  My Dad and Mom refused government help.  Instead, my dad came up North to find work.  He did but it was a job that no one would do and for terrible pay.  We moved up North and my Mom went to work in the same place.  We worried that my Dad's job would kill him.  We (the kids) would bandage my Mom's hands at night because they were raw and bleeding.  I lived in a place that few can image.  I learned quickly how to fight and take care of my family.  I learned that evil exist and that there are times when one has to match that evil.  So, when someone hurt my family, I hurt them.  All the time, I took my education seriously.  I refused to stay down.  My brother did as well.  We saw the way the system works and those that game the system.  In fact, we were consider stupid for getting that education and wanting to work when the government will give us more.  My sister was told to get pregnant and the government would give her money.  The more kids, the more money she would get.  We saw people fake diability to get on the dole.  This is their way of life.  I wanted to be a pro ball player.  I was good and in my community I was the best.  So, I went to college to play but my Dad could not afford for me to stay.  I went to work on the midnight shift at a factory as a welder.  I went to school during the day.  It took me 10 years of heartache sweat, blood, and tears.  I am a teacher now.  To this day, no one has given anything to my family.  We rose above all of that.  When my Dad comes to visit me, he stops at the end of the street and looks at my house.  His oldest son now lives in a four bedroom, four bath house with two kitchens.  He is overwhelmed.  We built a part of this house for him.  He once said that a man with pride cares about their family name even above death.  I have practiced that. 

Now you have to ask yourself if I am special or what every American can achieve if they get to work regardless of pay and take responsibility for their own lives.  I take care of me and mine to this day.  Now the government wants to punish people like me for busting my ... for the entirety of my life. 

I could go further into why I am a Conservative but don't want to be a bore.  In short, "Its a life and not a choice."  I believe in guns and more guns.  I want less government.  I can't believe the IRS is allowed to target citizens because of their political leanings.  I believe in the Constitution above all others with the exception of the Bible in my private life.  Finally, I believe we will all be asked to account for our lives at some point.  I can do so with a clear mind with what I believe and practice in my every day life. 

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Politics was something that I was really big on when I was in high school and throughout college. My AA is in Political Science and my BA is in Social Science with an emphasis on US History and Political Science. That being said, the last handful of years I've really stopped paying attention to politics all together. Back in the day, I was probably as right wing as you could get, but I find that as I grow older, I am shifting towards the middle.

I really want to start paying attention to some of this stuff again. I kind of miss it.

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  • 4 weeks later...

The Paris thread was careening wildly off-topic, so I'm moving my response here:

1 hour ago, Gunther said:

My son graduated college in '14.  He had a solid conservative foundation but required my guidance to filter out the liberal bullshit he had to endure through his education and most particularly through those 4 years of college.  He's not fully clean yet but now fancies himself a Libertarian, which I can accept, somewhat reluctantly.  Smart kid, Cum Laude, but a frat boy too.  I'm proud of him as I'm sure your folks are of you.

Why'd you send your kid to school if you have such disdain for higher education?

1 hour ago, Gunther said:

Global warming is a ruse, the facts don't support anything more than that.  The "majority" of scientists you cite involves 75 of 77 scientists among the 18,000 originally surveyed.  It was a bogus study, well documented as such, yet somehow the media still quotes it:  97%, blah, blah.  It's bogus and completely untrue.

You know, I took classes on climate change in both undergrad and law school. I went in specifically to argue with them and point out the BS. But you know what? Actually sitting down and reviewing research and facts yourself gives you the opportunity to decide for yourself whether the conclusions are supported by the data. And the simple fact is that reasonable people can't disagree on the matter. Man-made climate change is a fact. The arguments now are with respect to the extent of the problem and how to address it, not whether the problem exists. 

1 hour ago, Gunther said:

There is no institutional racism in this country anymore, especially not on college campuses. Again, a ruse perpetrated by George Soros who is funding it, along with Occupy (fake), Ferguson (fake), minimum wage (ridiculous), and many other false narratives that permeate our media.

Again, you can't just say things like institutional racism don't exist because you don't like the idea of them existing. There's a whole city on Long Island that was incorporated by Nazi sympathizers and institutionally excludes non-Aryans.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/11944651/New-York-community-with-Nazi-roots-still-maintains-racist-housing-policy.html

And that's not even touching the system biases against Black people in specific police departments across America, most famously in Ferguson, but in many others as well.

1 hour ago, Gunther said:

Fox news does not slant heavily right.  The are right of center but firmly entrenched with Republican establishment which is far left of where we need to be in America to continue the success we've have these 240 years or so.  Liberalism does not work, which is why Obama has been such an abject failuree.

Anyway, I ventured far off topic but the fact is, I believe this event should strengthen our resolve to shed this false racism narrative and begin the hard work of eliminating those terrorists among us and abroad to secure our future.

I grew up listening to Fox and conservative talk radio. I didn't have access to either in school because the signal didn't reach and I didn't have TV. Going back to listen to it now is staggering. I put on Hannity and Hugh Hewitt recently, and it's a stream of fallacies of circular reasoning and proof by assertion. No one fact-checks these guys in their bubble and it turns into an echo chamber where they develop their own alternate realities. It's terrifying. If you don't step out of that and at least consider the possibility of the alternative that they're full of crap, you buy into their nonsense because it sounds true enough. 

1 hour ago, jbishop15 said:

But you believe that George Soros is funding 'false narratives', and that is a bridge much further than the political debate I thought we were having. I am kind of stunned, to be quite honest. To be frank: I don't deal in conspiracies.

Yeah. Is it easier to believe there's a vast conspiracy spanning academia, science, and the media or that some people lie in self-serving fashion and fabricate boogeymen to distract from that fact?

 

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Okay kids- see if you can find the statement that's actually true....

 

1500's "The earth is the center of the universe" - 97% of scientists

 

1960's "Beware the coming ice age"

 

1970's "The world will run out of fossil fuel in the next decade" Jimmy Carter

 

1980's "Everyone will die of skin cancer because of the hole in the ozone layer"

 

1990's "At the turn of the millennium, all the computers in the world will fail and send the world into chaos"

 

2000's "Beware global warming".

 

2010"s "Climate change will create monster storms and weather anomalies that will destroy the world".

 

1880's "There is a sucker born every minute." P.T. Barnum

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6 minutes ago, Kenny Lee said:

Okay kids- see if you can find the statement that's actually true....

 

1500's "The earth is the center of the universe" - 97% of scientists

 

1960's "Beware the coming ice age"

 

1970's "The world will run out of fossil fuel in the next decade" Jimmy Carter

 

1980's "Everyone will die of skin cancer because of the hole in the ozone layer"

 

1990's "At the turn of the millennium, all the computers in the world will fail and send the world into chaos"

 

2000's "Beware global warming".

 

2010"s "Climate change will create monster storms and weather anomalies that will destroy the world".

 

1880's "There is a sucker born every minute." P.T. Barnum

You realize we have (nearly) fixed the hole in the ozone layer, right? The story of how we went from problem to solution on that is basically an alternate reality for how the climate change issue is going down. 

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14 minutes ago, Kenny Lee said:

Okay kids- see if you can find the statement that's actually true....

 

1500's "The earth is the center of the universe" - 97% of scientists

 

1960's "Beware the coming ice age"

 

1970's "The world will run out of fossil fuel in the next decade" Jimmy Carter

 

1980's "Everyone will die of skin cancer because of the hole in the ozone layer"

 

1990's "At the turn of the millennium, all the computers in the world will fail and send the world into chaos"

 

2000's "Beware global warming".

 

2010"s "Climate change will create monster storms and weather anomalies that will destroy the world".

 

1880's "There is a sucker born every minute." P.T. Barnum

- 1500s: Scientists said the Earth was the COTU because the church threatened to murder them if they didn't. 

- 1960s: The "global cooling" theory had little support amongst scientists, and was only popular for a brief time amongst the populace. 

- 1970s: Jimmy Carter - not a practicing scientist, nor a climate scientist. His opinion means little. 

- 1980s: http://www.skincancer.org/prevention/uva-and-uvb/ozone-and-uv-where-are-we-now; skin cancer rates are 5 times higher than they were in the 1970s, and we've made great strides to fix that problem. 

-1990s: media hysteria, problem was fixed, may have never been a problem in the first place.

-2000s: Global warming is climate change. 

-2010s: Climate change does create more violent weather patterns, and also makes weather unpredictable, plus other things. Here's a graph where the number of hurricanes and tropical storms are trending upwards. north_atlantic_hurricane.png

Welcome to science. It's a process of discovery and experiment. We also once used mercury as a medicine, and drained blood as a way to cure disease. 

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20 minutes ago, dkolo said:

You realize we have (nearly) fixed the hole in the ozone layer, right? The story of how we went from problem to solution on that is basically an alternate reality for how the climate change issue is going down. 

It's actually a pretty stunning success story of global action.

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Where is the evidence that global warming is man made?  BTW, Gore's predictions have been accurate haven't they?  What irks me is that schools have that crappola in their curriculum to indoctrinate the masses.  I haven't seen that evidence.  Please link.  If you want to talk about NOAA  and NASA then you can realize that they have been ordered to change their statistics.  Google it and read on it.   Have to take off to drive the car and destroy our future. 

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