Solheim Cup Controversy: Who is more at fault?

[Hardspoon]

I also don't know why this is considered poor sportsmanship. The concession of putts is an integral part of match play tactics.

I don't think anyone has a problem with them not conceding the putt in the first place.  The issue is that they turned their backs and walked away from the green before she completed the hole.

Even if she had gone ahead and finished the hole and made the putt, it would still be poor sportsmanship - we just wouldn't have ever heard about it.

[rehmwa]

It was a good apology.  The best thing to have happened was an eventual US win (or at least this particular match not being a deciding factor) - and then the apology.

On the other hand, I bet Lee never takes a concession for granted ever again

another topic - supposedly they used a "pod" system.  And saying it really helped.  I'm just sayin'

[natureboy]

Lee made a mistake, unfortunately she is still at fault. I can't help but feel like, SP new exactly what she was doing and took advantage of it.

While SP is extremely competitive-minded, I can see that this was not necessarily a gamesmanship situation...unless a 16-20" putt is an always make under pressure for these players.

Hull clearly walked to the side of the green where she could have a strategy discussion with her senior teammate nearing the end of a tight match. They did not leave the green area according to the 2nd, full green angle 'Zapruder' film.

I can understand with nerves and pressure as a first-timer how Lee could have misinterpreted those movements with a possible stray comment from the gallery. I think she erred in making a (reasonable) assumption but not slowing down and making sure.

The match rules state that it's your opponent who gets to concede the putt. By picking it up without clear confirmation, you are stepping on their prerogative. If SP and Hull were still discussing what to do when Lee picked up, their objection seems legitimate to me.

[Big Lex]

Everyone in a match is responsible for assuring that the scoring is correct. When Pettersen and Hull walked away, they were effectively conceding the putt. NOT by the letter of The Rules, of course, because they didn't SAY anything. But walking away means you believe you do not need to look at the next stroke. Since it is far more likely she would have made the 15" putt than missed it, it is reasonable to assume - again, generally speaking, not by the rules - they were conceding the putt. It would have been so much better if Lee Lincicome had said "when you walked, we assumed it was conceded," and then for Pettersen to have said "sorry...that was poor form....yes it's good....OR....sorry we did that but we would like to see the putt, so just replace it." I can't remember ever a situation where an opponent walked away and didn't watch a result which could determine a win instead of a halve. I also think that in matches I've played in nobody would EVER try to steal a win on a hole in that way. Most people I know would say "don't worry about it. We conceded." So I think they made the right decision regarding the rule about lifting the ball and strokes conceded. But I also think Pettersen and Hull violated the over arching principal of playing with proper respect and etiquette, and of working out touchy situations "with equity."

[rehmwa]

It would have been so much better if Lee Lincicome had said "when you walked, we assumed it was conceded," and then for Pettersen to have said "sorry...that was poor form....yes it's good....OR....sorry we did that but we would like to see the putt, so just replace it."

^^^^

(if she wanted to play gamesmanship, then make her replace it, and THEN, right before she putts - tell it's good.  That's annoying and disruptive, but doesn't cross the dickhead line)

(honest, IMHO - Allison was 100% at fault per the rules (and likely some crappy piece of work in the gallery trying to disrupt the game).  The issue is really how the Euros dealt with it at the time - less than best.)

[natureboy]

What would have been most sporting is to concede the very short putt (not a tap-in though) and win with good play on another hole. Call it a tie like Nicklaus. That said not giving concessions is part of match play isn't it? Another fairly sporting option is for Hull to hold up a hand and say 'wait a second, team decision.'

For anyone who thinks gamesmanship is effective, though, the U.S. comeback was an interesting example.

[RickK]

Lee is clearly at fault for not verifying that the putt was good.  But, the Europeans walking off the green, lack of class/respect/sportsmanship.  SP knew exactly what she was doing.  And, her actions alone turned the tide for the Americans...it gave them a rallying cry.  As far as the Pat Bradley incident...poor sportsmanship on Pat's part.

I love match play but I want to win with my sticks and ball.  I do not want to use the Rule book to beat someone.

[The Recreational Golfer]

Lee got gamed, but she should have made sure. This is world-class competition, not the local women's club low-gross/low net.

[jgreen85]

SP got the exact result she wanted. In hindsight, she realizes how unsportspersonlike it was. I've done similarly in the past, tho not in golf. Best for her the US won b/c the apology likely wouldn't have been sufficient without a US win or a euro beat down. As for those blaming someone other than SP, there's only one person apologizing today.

[thefinlex]

Forever and a day only,only,only your opponent can concede,never assume so for me SP is well within her rights,not pretty to watch and wont gain too many friends but still,the stakes are high and they all want to win. CH is walking off obviously thinking it will be given but they are a team and either one or both must give the nod to pick up,they did not regardless of CH actions .Countless examples in Ryder cup action over they years with many of the guys guilty of what gets referred to almost jokingly by the old boys club on air as "gamesmanship" and its almost always laughed off because of the fierce competition and atmosphere stirring a will to win at all costs environment the guys play in week in week out and the behemoth the RC has become.Looks to me like the girls are up for it as well which is great.

As an ad for the game and its ethos and values its no sponsors dream that's for sure but it joins a long list of incidents and its hardly surprising is it?.I mean who hasn't let an opponent/buddy/brother!? have a few longish ones early on then ask them to putt out a testy 2ft downhiller on the 15th as things tighten up and you want to get into their heads!!?? classic matchplay tactics and they should all get over it.

Only your opponent concedes....................its that simple

[ay33660]

Look at the video again. If that is the way you act to your partners still on the green, then ...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hardspoon

I don't think anyone has a problem with them not conceding the putt in the first place.  The issue is that they turned their backs and walked away from the green before she completed the hole.

Even if she had gone ahead and finished the hole and made the putt, it would still be poor sportsmanship - we just wouldn't have ever heard about it.

I have seen players walk off the green and towards the next hole prior to their competitor's holing out in Solheim, Ryder and President's Cup tournaments all the time. The only reason this is in the discussion is because of Lee picking up when the hole was not conceded.

I recall Michelle Wie running off the green in a previous Solheim Cup ....

http://www.golfchannel.com/news/golftalkcentral/wie-apologizes-leaving-green-early-solheim-cup/

So it is more common than just this one time.

[rehmwa]

Just for the record.  I don't think this 'issue' spurred on the American girls in singles.

I think they had the ability to win just as well regardless and don't want to credit the comeback to this offense.

[pumaAttack]

Watching the video alone, with no sound, it definitely looks like Europe conceded the putt...

I didn't watch any of the matches, but it that a common practice?  To walk away from your competitor when they have a putt left?  Seems you would want to watch them putt out to see if they missed and you won the hole.

I can see how Alison could perceive that as a conceded putt with their actions, but she still has to make 100% sure.

[Gator Hazard]

That was a disgusting way to try and game the hole.  To walk off like that would mean to me that you have conceded the hole, period.  Petty and small of them to do that, and hard to confirm what she heard if they are no longer there.  That seemed more like a strategic move to me, whether it was or not, seemed intentionl on the part of the Europeans.

[BallStriker]

Turning your back and walking off a green without giving a concession is the disgraceful part..........if you don't concede, then you stay where you are until you opponent has been given the opportunity to complete the hole.

Good for SP for stepping up this morning and apologizing...

[Kltdefer]

Turning your back and walking off a green without giving a concession is the disgraceful part..........if you don't concede, then you stay where you are until you opponent has been given the opportunity to complete the hole.

Good for SP for stepping up this morning and apologizing...

True, but Hull didn't walk off the green. She was walking away from where she was watching the putt. I don't think the video shows Hull off the green before Lee picks up the ball.

To me, Hull started moving before the ball completely finished rolling.  Lee assumed because Hull was moving that the putt was conceded and picked it up. Lee is totally at fault for not asking. Or better yet, just putt out.

How many times have you been on a green and started walking before the persons putt stops completely? A lot!

You don't walk away from the green to the next tee while the person is still putting - that's unsportsmanship.

[Golfingdad]

True, but Hull didn't walk off the green. She was walking away from where she was watching the putt. I don't think the video shows Hull off the green before Lee picks up the ball.

To me, Hull started moving before the ball completely finished rolling.  Lee assumed because Hull was moving that the putt was conceded and picked it up. Lee is totally at fault for not asking. Or better yet, just putt out.

How many times have you been on a green and started walking before the persons putt stops completely? A lot!

You don't walk away from the green to the next tee while the person is still putting - that's unsportsmanship.

"Totally," huh?  Suzann Petterson's instragram apology speaks otherwise.

[rehmwa]

"Totally," huh?  Suzann Petterson's instragram apology speaks otherwise.

no it doesn't - it speaks to how she chose to deal with it - which was poor and not very sportmanlike

Apology for handling something poorly doesn't = taking blame