Offset in irons help or hindrance to your game?

[billchao]

Ah gotcha. I just happen to link Offset with the other stuff you listed. I thought you were saying offset helps attribute those things. Instead it's just because they happen to be in the same subgroup of clubs meant for high handicappers.

Yea, exactly. Sorry if I didn't make that clear.

[saevel25]

Yea, exactly. Sorry if I didn't make that clear.

Nah it was clear. I just didn't read it well enough.

[jcjim]

How does it accomplish that?  Are you suggesting that the offset decreases AoA and thus launches the ball higher?

I guess that theoretically could be true, but as @saevel25 described above, it doesn't seem like there is enough "delay" between the shaft and the face to change (in a substantial way) any aspect of how the face is delivered to the ball.

The description above talks about how little time is involved in that 1/10 of a inch offset to travel.. The player physically has no time to do anything in such a short amount of time to effect the shot.

Offset is designed into the head, it has been proved without question that offset does nothing more than increasing the trajectory. It allows people that have trouble getting the ball up to achieve higher traj.

Now this isn't me just coming up with something it's a matter of club design the Mfg's have known for decades.

As I said in addition to offset when you add weight in the sole it again increases the trajectory.

I gave the same argument [ as above ] about the time involved, about 10 years ago on GOLFWRX. The discussion was regarding people believed that offset made them hook the ball. My argument proved that it is such a small amount of time the face of the club couldn't close to hook the ball. Tom Wishon the owner of Wishon golf clubs and the designer for Golfsmith golf clubs for many years used to be on that forum. Tom came on and verified what I was saying was true. Offset makes it easier to elevate the ball and has nothing to do with hooking the ball.

Probably more of a setup thing then?

It's more than just a set up thing. It helps the player to get a higher trajectory. That doesn't mean that people don't set up differently that are used to playing irons with little offset. In fact there is a fair amount of players that have difficulty figuring out how to set with a offset iron.

[DrvFrShow]

My take is that the cast vs. forged is that the cast will have a wider sweet spot, but a firmer feel. Now couple that weights in the club head and you add forgiveness for mishits, and offset adds even more forgiveness. Say sloppy all you want, but most golfers don't practice daily. We shoot in the 90s not in the 70s. To enjoy the game we hackers need all the help we can get to get the ball in the air. Ideally we should be hitting a jumbo bucket every day and playing a three rounds a week. But this isn't happening.

Now if someone were to sponsor me with a free country club membership....

Still this forgiveness isn't going to produce miracles. A mishit is still a mishit. The ball just goes a bit further than it would if there was no forgiveness built into the club. And a hosel rocket is still a hosel rocket.

[jcjim]

I think it depends on the golfer. In theory the offset should get the hands more infront of the ball. It depends on how the club is delivered. Still you are only talking about 1/10th to 2/10th of a inch difference. It's not significant at all. The ball only cares where the CG is with regard to contact. So the CG isn't further back in terms of impact. It's just further back in terms of where the hosel is.

Having the offset effects a number of other design features. in such a way that it produces a higher trajectory. It's not just the 1/10 inch, but when you add this to the rest of the head you get a higher trajectory. It has to do with Physics.

[saevel25]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jcjim

Having the offset effects a number of other design features. in such a way that it produces a higher trajectory. It's not just the 1/10 inch, but when you add this to the rest of the head you get a higher trajectory. It has to do with Physics.

Actually my statement is correct even on increased trajectory,

By Wishon,

Quote:

However, this only happens for golfers with a later to very late unhinging of the wrist-cock angle (release). Only golfers with a later to very late release are able to deliver the shaft in a forward bend position right at the moment of impact. For golfers with an early to midway release, this forward bending of the shaft happens well before impact, such that the shaft rebounds back to straight by the time the clubhead reaches the ball.

It can still vary from person to person.

[Mike Boatright]

I think they need to make super game improvement irons with higher cg no offset and a super thin sole like blades. I think it's the size that makes irons more forgiving that's what companies need to work on not making them chunky and crooked looking just bigger for more hitting zone.

[newtogolf]

I think they need to make super game improvement irons with higher cg no offset and a super thin sole like blades. I think it's the size that makes irons more forgiving that's what companies need to work on not making them chunky and crooked looking just bigger for more hitting zone.

You only have so much weight you can put in a club head so if you're going to make the club heads larger you have to either add a lot of plastic or lighter weight materials to the steel or have a bigger cavity.

[mvmac]

I think they need to make super game improvement irons with higher cg no offset and a super thin sole like blades. I think it's the size that makes irons more forgiving that's what companies need to work on not making them chunky and crooked looking just bigger for more hitting zone.

The low CG and wider sole helps less skilled golfers. Makes it easy for them to get the ball in the air and the sole helps on slightly fat and thin shots.

[Mike Boatright]

From demo-ing all the irons here at Haggin oaks holf complex here in Sacramento ca I have yet to see what i'm talking about besides Adams and Wilson a bit. They can still make game improvement clubs the way they do but more can be done referring to what i'm talking about here is a good example they don't even make this club anymore.

[SavvySwede]

From demo-ing all the irons here at Haggin oaks holf complex here in Sacramento ca I have yet to see what i'm talking about besides Adams and Wilson a bit. They can still make game improvement clubs the way they do but more can be done referring to what i'm talking about here is a good example they don't even make this club anymore.

Higher CG and thinner sole will make an iron head less forgiving no matter how big the club's face is, you need some mass behind the ball to keep it from twisting out of control on an off center hit. Some of the thinner cavity back irons (sometimes called a "player's cavity back") are no more forgiving than some blades.

[saevel25]

Higher CG and thinner sole will make an iron head less forgiving no matter how big the club's face is, you need some mass behind the ball to keep it from twisting out of control on an off center hit. Some of the thinner cavity back irons (sometimes called a "player's cavity back") are no more forgiving than some blades.

I agree,

It depends on the club, and how much weight is actually distributed towards the edges.

If you compared MB versus CB in the titleist model the CB will be more forgiving in maintaining ball speed on slight off center hits. It should also increase MOI as well. You could find a MB, that might have thicker face, larger clubhead, and wider sole and would perform equal to or even more than the CB in terms of forgiveness.

As I tend to see. If you are comparing the same brand then you can see the natural progression. If you want to compare between different brands then its not clear cut. .

[DrvFrShow]

Basically the idea of the whole thing is that if you have a handicap over 20, you should be playing with irons that have a sole no narrower than the width of your thumb. This is the idea behind the game improvement and super game improvement irons. The super GIs have more offset and a wider sole than the GIs, as a rule. The tech does work.

The better player irons have a narrower sole and a smaller club face and little or no offset.

[jcjim]

Basically the idea of the whole thing is that if you have a handicap over 20, you should be playing with irons that have a sole no narrower than the width of your thumb. This is the idea behind the game improvement and super game improvement irons. The super GIs have more offset and a wider sole than the GIs, as a rule. The tech does work.

The better player irons have a narrower sole and a smaller club face and little or no offset.

Basically nobody's going to argue with that. Sole width and offset seem to be married as far as club designers are considered. The problem many hate the looks of high offset and giant soles.

I don't know if I agree with the 20 handicap though there are many ways to get to a 20 handicap. some 20 handicaps can have a decent iron game and horrible tee ball or putting

[Phil McGleno]

some 20 handicaps can have a decent iron game and horrible tee ball or putting

I have not met the guy who has a decent iron game and almost never breaks 90.

[mvmac]

I don't know if I agree with the 20 handicap though there are many ways to get to a 20 handicap. some 20 handicaps can have a decent iron game and horrible tee ball or putting

Agree with @Phil McGleno , bogey golf and hitting the ball well (hitting GIR) don't go together.

[jcjim]

Agree with @Phil McGleno, bogey golf and hitting the ball well (hitting GIR) don't go together.

If you're in the woods off the tee regularly and three putt much of the time, I be willing to bet you won't even make it to bogey golf.

[saevel25]

If you're in the woods off the tee regularly and three putt much of the time, I be willing to bet you won't even make it to bogey golf.

Are there some golfers with horrendous short game and putting but with decent long game, sure. They are very very rare. A guy who shoots in the 70s saves about 7 strokes in the long game and only 2.6 in the short game versus a bogey golfer. Long game matters more.