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jcjim

The internal revenue tax code

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Many that keep supporting the idea that the rich pay everything need to look at the tax code. It's over 10,400 pages long. The first few hundred pages are where the vast majority of people filing taxes need to look. The last 10,000+ pages are the millions of loop holes built into the tax code for the mega rich and the corporations. It's easy to pay taxes when you have earned 100's if not 1000's times more than the rest of the citizens do. In fact that's what everything is built around, the tax code is really for the rich to stay ahead and keep adding to their net worth while everyone else never can get ahead.

If you set up a system that the top few percent of citizens are wildly successful and the 90+% have just about enough to get by you have the USA. That's partially true more and more here aren't getting by that's why 20% of children are underfed/ malnourished and hungry. That's why the elderly are in trouble also. You have certain groups in this country that want people that can't afford health care to simply die.

Income in this country has not increased [ it's been dead flat for 90+% of us] since the reagan years because he's the one that started all this, The top earners have increased their net worth a whopping 400% while everyone else never gets ahead and if the truth were known everyone's falling behind.

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How does any of that matter to the tax code? So instead of fixing how wages are paid you decide just to tax people? I am all for fixing the tax code, but it should also include massive regulation reform as well. Fixing the tax code isn't just taxing the rich more. Oh in 2010 only 15% of households were in poverty. So 85% of households can get by.

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I go back to basics when come to how any part of the current federal government branches are working. Two questions. 1. Did you vote for your DC representatives?  If you answer "no" you don't have any say on how the country is run. If you answered "yes" then move on to question #2. 2.  Were the people you voted for career politicians, just like the past DC politicians that have been doing the DC politics as usual for the past few decades? If you answered "yes" to question #2 then there is part of the problem if you are not satisfied with the way the feds are currently running the country.

Everything that happens in DC politics, good or bad,  is a direct result of how American voters voted.

I agree that the federal tax regulations should be changed. They are way to complicated for the majority of the tax payers in America. I am almost at a point where a flat tax on every dollar EARNED IN AMERICA would be a good thing if administered properly.

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How does any of that matter to the tax code?

So instead of fixing how wages are paid you decide just to tax people?

I am all for fixing the tax code, but it should also include massive regulation reform as well. Fixing the tax code isn't just taxing the rich more.

Oh in 2010 only 15% of households were in poverty. So 85% of households can get by.

Because it's the tax code insures that these millionaires/billionaires and corporations don't pay the taxes they should, that's why we have a 14 trillion dollar debt. Social welfare is nothing compared to the trillions given through loop holes to the rich and corps.

Yes tax the b/m and corps based on no loop holes.

What is your massive regulation reform?

First you need to get the taxes from the corporations  and multi millionaires.billionaires that aren't paying it. Then there will be methods to make things right and have a society that everyone can be part of..and one that takes care of the old/ and hungry. You don't have that now with the few getting everything and the rest fighting for the bones left.

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Because it's the tax code insures that these millionaires/billionaires and corporations don't pay the taxes they should, that's why we have a 14 trillion dollar debt. Social welfare is nothing compared to the trillions given through loop holes to the rich and corps.

Which loopholes are you talking about and how much would they save? Please itemize it for me? I am interested in hearing about these loopholes. If they are a viable option then I would support the change in tax code to close them.

Yes tax the b/m and corps based on no loop holes.

Again, please state the loop holes? I don't keep up on my tax code knowledge to know where they are saving money.

What is your massive regulation reform?

I would like congress just to sit down and go through the whole book of regulations and see which ones are outdated or do not work. I don't know off hand. I know there are a lot of stories in local and state government were there are laws and regulations passed in the 1800's that have no application today at all.

Government typically just keep adding regulation with out ever rescinding the ones that are outdated. I just want to see an overhaul. Regulations can be like a computer. After 2 years the thing just gets sluggish. Then you save what data you want, and yo reinstall the OS and it's all nice and fast again.

First you need to get the taxes from the corporations  and multi millionaires.billionaires that aren't paying it. Then there will be methods to make things right and have a society that everyone can be part of..and one that takes care of the old/ and hungry. You don't have that now with the few getting everything and the rest fighting for the bones left.

Let me ask you this. How much do you think corporations and the super wealthy should pay?

I would support government programs if they were done correctly. I think in some regards people have to be responsible for their own lives as well. There is a balance there.

I agree, people going hungry is an issue. A latest figure I saw it would only take 30 billion dollars to feed the whole world. So yea, get on that congress.

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I studied the tax code for many years and applied it.

They need to trash it and start over.

Simplify it.

When no one understands the system, people do not respect it, and ... bad things happen.

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I go back to basics when come to how any part of the current federal government branches are working. Two questions. 1. Did you vote for your DC representatives?  If you answer "no" you don't have any say on how the country is run. If you answered "yes" then move on to question #2. 2.  Were the people you voted for career politicians, just like the past DC politicians that have been doing the DC politics as usual for the past few decades? If you answered "yes" to question #2 then there is part of the problem if you are not satisfied with the way the feds are currently running the country.

Everything that happens in DC politics, good or bad,  is a direct result of how American voters voted.

I agree that the federal tax regulations should be changed. They are way to complicated for the majority of the tax payers in America. I am almost at a point where a flat tax on every dollar EARNED IN AMERICA would be a good thing if administered properly

Name the last legislation that was passed for people. They don'i do anything for people they just pass laws against people and for the rich

I agree with you on flat tax but do you really believe corporations will not have a looonnnggg list of ways to get out of it. no the only people that will get stuck with it is the 90+% that pay their taxes.

Which loopholes are you talking about and how much would they save? Please itemize it for me? I am interested in hearing about these loopholes. If they are a viable option then I would support the change in tax code to close them.

Again, please state the loop holes? I don't keep up on my tax code knowledge to know where they are saving money.

I would like congress just to sit down and go through the whole book of regulations and see which ones are outdated or do not work. I don't know off hand. I know there are a lot of stories in local and state government were there are laws and regulations passed in the 1800's that have no application today at all.

Government typically just keep adding regulation with out ever rescinding the ones that are outdated. I just want to see an overhaul. Regulations can be like a computer. After 2 years the thing just gets sluggish. Then you save what data you want, and yo reinstall the OS and it's all nice and fast again.

Let me ask you this. How much do you think corporations and the super wealthy should pay?

I would support government programs if they were done correctly. I think in some regards people have to be responsible for their own lives as well. There is a balance there.

I agree, people going hungry is an issue. A latest figure I saw it would only take 30 billion dollars to feed the whole world. So yea, get on that congress.

Which ones to itemize? Sorry there's over  10,000 pages of them you don't have the room here. but if you REALLY want to know the IRS has all of them for you to read..

You're repeating yourself.

The wealthy/ corporations should pay exactly what the middle class pays no less. They owe trillions.. In fact it's been estimated that there's 25 trillion dollars offshore that the rich/corporations have hidden and won't bring back until Wall Street trashes this country and they can buy up everything for pennies. You had better be carefull where your money is cuz it.s coming

Tell me the people that don't have responsibility for their lives?

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I studied the tax code for many years and applied it.

They need to trash it and start over.

Simplify it.

When no one understands the system, people do not respect it, and ... bad things happen.

I agree that they need to start over .But do you really think the B/M and corps. will get anything different than they have now, no they want more in fact they want everything and won't be happy until they have everything everyone has..

The people understand the system, the system in which they pay more than 50% of what they earn in all the taxes they pay and the rich pay squat.

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Which ones to itemize? Sorry there's over  10,000 pages of them you don't have the room here. but if you REALLY want to know the IRS has all of them for you to read..

So you can't list anything that you have an issue with?

Clearly you know more about than I do. I basically do a standard deduction every year. I don't itemize any of my deductions. If you claim that getting rid of loop holes can save trillions then you should be able to list some and how much they should save right?

If you can make claims that we can save trillions to cover our debt by getting rid of loop holes you must surely know of these loop holes right?

The wealthy/ corporations should pay exactly what the middle class pays no less. They owe trillions..

Do you have a report on this?

Also, do they legally owe trillions. Or do you just think they do because you can't stand they legally are allowed to not pay taxes in some instances.

We live in a world of laws, even if they are bad ones. In the end, unless the illegally skipped out on taxes they owe us nothing.

In fact it's been estimated that there's 25 trillion dollars offshore that the rich/corporations have hidden and won't bring back until Wall Street trashes this country and they can buy up everything for pennies.

Umm, then why didn't they buy up a lot of stuff when the stock market crashed about 10 years ago? Wasn't it Obama who said that this was the worst financial crisis since the great depression? If so then wouldn't it have been the right time for those trillions to be spent?

Also you have to ask yourself this, is it illegal for them to horde money? What law says you can't save money? If the law allows them to ship it offshore, with out paying taxes, then they are allowed and they owe us nothing on it.

Until the law is changed then you can't say they owe us anything.

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Come on @jcjim you know better than you answer stuff by editing a quote. It just messes up quoting. See the blank quoting box above. That is what happens when you don't quote right. Just to let you know for further posts.

Ans:When bush and Paulson caused the crash of 2008. Morgan Stanley won everything. they got rid of their greatest competitor Lehmann Bros that was a massive win. the banks gobbled up 100's of banks and now we have very few banks controlling everything. 100's of thousands of properties were thrown into foreclosure and stolen by the banks. It's been estimated by the top money magazines that 14 trillion was lost and you can bet they will find some way to have the taxpayer pony up for it. It's not over by far just wait.

From what I read the crash was caused because AIG bought up all these high risk loans that were backed by government money. Meaning the Government was covering the risk for AIG.

This was going back to the late 90's when Clinton installed the subsidized housing loans allowing people to afford houses they couldn't. It also created a system where bad loans were getting higher grades.

When AIG finally couldn't handle the risk it all went to hell in a handbasket. Really the primary cause was the government backing bad loans by allowing AIG to take on too much risk. It was also Clinton creating a program that allowed people to afford houses they couldn't otherwise.

In the end, when AIG went down and no one could cover their home loans it was all history.

It's not hard to see how all the pieces fit into this. Really it was a total screw up by the entire government system spanning both Clinton and Bush. In the end the system was in place before Bush took office. Could Bush have got ahead of it, maybe. I don't know the finer details as how much he knew and who actually was overseeing that aspect of regulation in the government.

Ans: I'm really tired of playing your silly cat an mouse 20 questions if you don't understand any of this  I really don't have any interest in discussing anything with you so you know.

How is it cat and mouse? I am just asking for information from your side. Yet you don't actually post any of it. You just keep rehashing liberal talking points over and over again with out actually putting down sources.

I am pretty much an independent voter. I am socially liberal in most aspects. I support government backing of small and medium size businesses over corporations and big businesses. I would have voted for Clinton in the 90's if I was old enough to vote at the time.

As such I like to ask the opinions of others to further expand my knowledge. By your exuberant claims and passion for this subject I at least thought you would be willing to actually share your sources so I could look at them myself. Clearly you think this is some sort of trap or something. I just want to learn more. I am all for constructive conversations when I am able to actually look at the information on my side. In the end you clearly don't want to share your sources of information.

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I guess it's easier to make claims, and then when someone asks questions, just say, "I'm not interested in discussing this with you"...

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Come on @jcjim you know better than you answer stuff by editing a quote. It just messes up quoting. See the blank quoting box above. That is what happens when you don't quote right. Just to let you know for further posts.

From what I read the crash was caused because AIG bought up all these high risk loans that were backed by government money. Meaning the Government was covering the risk for AIG.

This was going back to the late 90's when Clinton installed the subsidized housing loans allowing people to afford houses they couldn't. It also created a system where bad loans were getting higher grades.

When AIG finally couldn't handle the risk it all went to hell in a handbasket. Really the primary cause was the government backing bad loans by allowing AIG to take on too much risk. It was also Clinton creating a program that allowed people to afford houses they couldn't otherwise.

In the end, when AIG went down and no one could cover their home loans it was all history.

It's not hard to see how all the pieces fit into this. Really it was a total screw up by the entire government system spanning both Clinton and Bush. In the end the system was in place before Bush took office. Could Bush have got ahead of it, maybe. I don't know the finer details as how much he knew and who actually was overseeing that aspect of regulation in the government.

How is it cat and mouse? I am just asking for information from your side. Yet you don't actually post any of it. You just keep rehashing liberal talking points over and over again with out actually putting down sources.

I am pretty much an independent voter. I am socially liberal in most aspects. I support government backing of small and medium size businesses over corporations and big businesses. I would have voted for Clinton in the 90's if I was old enough to vote at the time.

As such I like to ask the opinions of others to further expand my knowledge. By your exuberant claims and passion for this subject I at least thought you would be willing to actually share your sources so I could look at them myself. Clearly you think this is some sort of trap or something. I just want to learn more. I am all for constructive conversations when I am able to actually look at the information on my side. In the end you clearly don't want to share your sources of information.

Oh I try to understand these quoting deals.

Do you know anything about credit default swaps and derivatives I think not, then it's a waste of time discussing anything about the bush 2008 crash. But there's no doubt that's what happened and IT WILL HAPPEN AGAIN because the stupid democrats did nothing to change the laws allowing banks, brokerage firms and insurance companies from designing new instruments that sidestep all laws. The next may be the last.

For your info the homes/ properties foreclosed on in the crash. were 95%+ homes/ properties that had mortgages that were written between 2003-2006 Bush years nothing in Clintons. Bush passed new standards that started all this. There's no question that the crash was planned for at least 6/7 years prior.

I will say for the last time I'm neither Dem. or Rep. I'm totally independent. if the things that I talk about sound to be liberal to you it just happens to be what has happened. If you want me to trash Bill Clinton there's more than ample including NAFTA and GAT that single handed put the nails in the coffin of the American worker. I simply call a spade a spade where the cards fall for blame. I get no info from TV either.

I'm not able to discuss all that is wrong. it's far to complicated to explain on a forum. So anything that you have interest in you'll have to do the leg work. I've spent almost 40 years involved in US politics I simple can say that the powers are 5 steps ahead of everyone else and they have laws implemented years before to do the things they do. And believe me it's all against the citizens of this country.

With the 2008 crash they now believe that they are free from any harm whatever they do because no one got touched for the trillions they stole.As I said the next one may drag the world under.

Your post was honest so I will treat your future ones differently.

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For your info the homes/ properties foreclosed on in the crash. were 95%+ homes/ properties that had mortgages that were written between 2003-2006 Bush years nothing in Clintons. Bush passed new standards that started all this. There's no question that the crash was planned for at least 6/7 years prior.

Where did you get the 95% number from?

I get no info from TV either.

I never said you did. Makes me wonder why you would bring it up then.

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Where did you get the 95% number from?

I never said you did. Makes me wonder why you would bring it up then.

It's a matter of public information. I have no idea where I learned it but I never repeat

something that that isn't from a trusted source and is verified.

Why would you wonder it's just a statement. All TV is manipulated by big corporations.

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I have no idea where I learned it but I never repeat something that that isn't from a trusted source and is verified.

Well, that solves that! Given that, who could've possibly doubted the veracity of anything you say? :whistle:

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I haven't read everything in here, but I believe @jcjim brings up some valid points. I'm just amazed that the people who are getting screwed are so quick to defend the rights of the people doing the screwing! Seriously @saevel25 and @14ledo81 , the OP may come off a little strong and be a little light in the specifics but do you REALLY think all is just in Camelot??? Because I'm pretty sure, at least in Canada, that the elite are playing with a stacked deck simply because they have the political buying power. To think otherwise is pretty naive IMHO.

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I haven't read everything in here, but I believe @jcjim brings up some valid points. I'm just amazed that the people who are getting screwed are so quick to defend the rights of the people doing the screwing!

Seriously @saevel25 and @14ledo81, the OP may come off a little strong and be a little light in the specifics but do you REALLY think all is just in Camelot??? Because I'm pretty sure, at least in Canada, that the elite are playing with a stacked deck simply because they have the political buying power. To think otherwise is pretty naive IMHO.

I'm not defending. I just want some evidence or source so I can investigate under my own. I am big on actually taking time to learn things myself instead of just 100% believing something someone says.

I know that people with money have more leverage in politics. Super-PACs are a huge problem in American politics right now.

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Note: This thread is 1689 days old. We appreciate that you found this thread instead of starting a new one, but if you plan to post here please make sure it's still relevant. If not, please start a new topic. Thank you!

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