Do you carry the Rules of Golf with you when you play?

[Mike Boatright]

The game is already very hard who needs menacing rules to make it harder.

[Shindig]

The game is already very hard who needs menacing rules to make it harder.

So in other words you've never played golf?

[Mike Boatright]

So in other words you've never played golf?

 

Your not making any sense iv'e played golf for 25 years.

[mvmac]

I remember once on the golf channel Ken Venturi once said he only plays by 2 simple rules play it as it lies or something else.

I bet he actually played by a few more (like the actual Rules of Golf) when we won all of his tournaments.

Your not making any sense iv'e played golf for 25 years.

No you haven't, you've been playing "I play by my own rules" golf.

[pumaAttack]

 

No you haven't, you've been playing "I play by my own rules" golf.

 

I can see both sides here.  

One side says it is only golf if you follow all the rules of the game.
Another side says that golf is only hitting the ball with the object to get it into the hole.

If you play tackle football in the park, are you playing football or not?  I would say yes.  Are you following all the rules of the pro game?  No.  But the basic principles are the same.

I think the same can be said about golf.  Playing a round with relaxed rules is still golf, even if you don't follow the strictest of rules.  For some reason people feel the need to follow every exact rule in golf, much more so than they do in other sports.

Hey Mike.  What are you going to call this sport you play?    The word “Golf” has already been taken by a different one.

Flog is about right.

Why participate if you don't want to play golf?  Especially, why waste your time and ours in the rules forum?  

(I don't know how this ended up with Colin's ID on the quote as it was quoted from Boatright's post.  This new format has some navigational deficiencies.  I'm still trying to figure out how to access my preferences, too.)

 

Who are you to decide how another man plays the game? 

You surely aren't naive enough to think that every single golfer plays by 100% of the rules all the time. 

Edited October 8, 2015 by pumaAttack

[mvmac]

I think the same can be said about golf.  Playing a round with relaxed rules is still golf, even if you don't follow the strictest of rules.  For some reason people feel the need to follow every exact rule in golf, much more so than they do in other sports.

Except what @Mike Boatright is describing isn't even a relaxed version of the rules. 

I never play ob and play everything else as a hazard. You should be able to ground your club in a hazard use 16 clubs and generally get relief from most situations that require it like a plugged ball in the fairway or if a ball lands in a  sand divot on the fairway in no way should you get penalized for hitting the fairway.

 

Who are you to decide how another man plays the game? 

You surely aren't naive enough to think that every single golfer plays by 100% of the rules all the time. 

He can do whatever he wants, I don't care. But he's not playing golf and his handicap isn't valid. 

Edited October 8, 2015 by mvmac

[Shindig]

I can see both sides here.  

One side says it is only golf if you follow all the rules of the game.
Another side says that golf is only hitting the ball with the object to get it into the hole.

If you play tackle football in the park, are you playing football or not?  I would say yes.  Are you following all the rules of the pro game?  No.  But the basic principles are the same.

I think the same can be said about golf.  Playing a round with relaxed rules is still golf, even if you don't follow the strictest of rules.  For some reason people feel the need to follow every exact rule in golf, much more so than they do in other sports.

This isn't about one foot down (IFAF) versus two (NFL) or about 50-yard + endzones (AFL) versus 110 yard + endzones (CFL).  Golf, unlike football, is played using the same set of rules at all levels.

It's the same answer I give if someone asks on the first tee if I'm playing "winter rules" -- no, I'm here to play golf.

[Martyn W]

Lew Blakey told this story at a Rules Workshop. He rolled up a course and was paired with three members. The pro had told the members that Lew was one of the most respected Rules Officials in the country.Intimidated, the members told Lew that they were very respectful of the Rules and 'played by most of them'. Lew said its all good, lets play a casual round and have fun.

His first teeshot found a fairway bunker, he tossed the ball out and played his 'second'. One of the members said "what are you doing, you have to play out of the bunker!" 

"Oh, I'm sorry" replied Lew, "you didn't make it clear which Rules we aren't playing by today"

[Shindig]

@Martyn W -- I hadn't heard that before, but I love the story and am going to tell it at my club. 

[pumaAttack]

 

Except what @Mike Boatright is describing isn't even a relaxed version of the rules. 

 

 

He can do whatever he wants, I don't care. But he's not playing golf and his handicap isn't valid. 

 

Meh, I don't see the harm.  Maybe not "relaxed" to you, but that is your own interpretation.  I know that most handicaps are inflated anyways.  I have more important things to worry about than whether a golfer is posting a "Official Rules" score.  It's not like we are talking about the PGA tour.

Time to lighten up and have more fun on the course.  Golf would be more popular if people weren't such sticklers for the rules.  

Do you think every soccer game, baseball match, football game should follow every single rule too?  Why does golf have to be that way?

[Fourputt]

I can see both sides here.  

One side says it is only golf if you follow all the rules of the game.
Another side says that golf is only hitting the ball with the object to get it into the hole.

If you play tackle football in the park, are you playing football or not?  I would say yes.  Are you following all the rules of the pro game?  No.  But the basic principles are the same.

I think the same can be said about golf.  Playing a round with relaxed rules is still golf, even if you don't follow the strictest of rules.  For some reason people feel the need to follow every exact rule in golf, much more so than they do in other sports.

Who are you to decide how another man plays the game? 

You surely aren't naive enough to think that every single golfer plays by 100% of the rules all the time. 

I never said I was deciding how he plays a game, just that the way he does it isn't golf.  He doesn't play by the principles of golf, never mind the rules.  Most of the guys I've played with for the last 35 years make their best attempt to play by the rules as they know them.  They may make mistakes through ignorance, but they try to do it right.  Mr. Boatright doesn't even see the need to make the attempt - in fact he goes out of his way to state that making the attempt is too much effort for him.   He seems to know more or less what the proper procedures are under the rules, at least well enough to know that he deliberately ignores them.

He says the game is too difficult even playing as loosely as he does it, yet he has apparently never actually tried to play it properly, so he really doesn't have any experiential background to make that claim from.  You assert that he plays by the principles, but that isn't the case.   The Principles are the foundation that underlie the rules - they are inseparable.  You still can play by the principles, even if you aren't playing to the letter of the rules because you lack complete knowledge of the specific procedures involved.  You cannot completely ignore the rules and deliberately shortcut them and still say that you are playing by those principles.

A player can by the rules as closely as he understands them and get nothing but respect from me even if he makes mistakes along the way, because he is making the effort to play golf.  A player like Mr. Boatright who seems to put the same effort into justifying his act of deliberately not playing by the rules deserves no such respect, and no, he is not playing golf.  It just looks somewhat like golf to the uninformed.

Edited October 9, 2015 by iacas
Fixed extra returns

[pumaAttack]

I never said I was deciding how he plays a game, just that the way he does it isn't golf.  He doesn't play by the principles of golf, never mind the rules.  Most of the guys I've played with for the last 35 years make their best attempt to play by the rules as they know them.  They may make mistakes through ignorance, but they try to do it right.  Mr. Boatright doesn't even see the need to make the attempt - in fact he goes out of his way to state that making the attempt is too much effort for him.   He seems to know more or less what the proper procedures are under the rules, at least well enough to know that he deliberately ignores them.

 

He says the game is too difficult even playing as loosely as he does it, yet he has apparently never actually tried to play it properly, so he really doesn't have any experiential background to make that claim from.  You assert that he plays by the principles, but that isn't the case.   The Principles are the foundation that underlie the rules - they are inseparable.  You still can play by the principles, even if you aren't playing to the letter of the rules because you lack complete knowledge of the specific procedures involved.  You cannot completely ignore the rules and deliberately shortcut them and still say that you are playing by those principles.

 

A player can by the rules as closely as he understands them and get nothing but respect from me even if he makes mistakes along the way, because he is making the effort to play golf.  A player like Mr. Boatright who seems to put the same effort into justifying his act of deliberately not playing by the rules deserves no such respect, and no, he is not playing golf.  It just looks somewhat like golf to the uninformed.

 

Time to get off that high horse.  Your way of "golf" is not the universally right way.  Nobody said he is playing by the rules, so that argument is out.  But to claim he is not playing golf strictly because he doesn't follow the rules you choose to?  That is absurd.  

So you drive by a soccer match and see people subbing and coming back into the game.  You see kids offsides and still scoring goals.  You see a goalie hold the ball longer than allowed.  Do you stop your car and yell at the kids "You are not playing soccer!!"

Why do you have to treat golf with such strictness?  What is there to gain?  The Principles of the game are not about giving yourself every single minute penalty strokes.  The principles of the game are hitting a tiny white ball towards a hole.  Hoping to make the ball into the hole at some point.  

 

Edited October 8, 2015 by pumaAttack

[rogolf]

This Boatright is obviously not related to P J Boatwright, one of the most revered Rules officials.

[iacas]

Meh, I don't see the harm.

What part of @mvmac's post implied that there was "harm"?

I have more important things to worry about than whether a golfer is posting a "Official Rules" score.  It's not like we are talking about the PGA tour.

Time to lighten up and have more fun on the course.  Golf would be more popular if people weren't such sticklers for the rules.

Where did Mike say any of that stuff? He quite literally said he did not care what someone else did, just that it wasn't an accurate handicap.

This is a prime example of what others have mentioned: you seem to not read what's written, and this is another example. Then you go after @Fourputt next:

Time to get off that high horse.  Your way of "golf" is not the universally right way

By definition, playing under the Rules of Golf it is the "right" way. It's literally how the game is defined. And there's no "high horse" in this discussion, because neither @Fourputt nor @mvmac actually care how someone they're not playing against (for money or in a competition) plays. But it's not incorrect nor is it haughty nor egotistical to point out that if you pick your ball out of a bunker and don't play OB, etc. then your handicap isn't right, and your score lacks some meaning.

But to claim he is not playing golf strictly because he doesn't follow the rules you choose to?  That is absurd.

The Rules of Golf define the game of golf. If you play something resembling golf, that's technically the best you can say about it: it resembles golf. Generally, yeah, people will say they "played golf" even if they play a scramble or something, but technically, no, it's not. There's no judgment in saying "it's not technically golf."

So you drive by a soccer match and see people subbing and coming back into the game.  You see kids offsides and still scoring goals.  You see a goalie hold the ball longer than allowed.  Do you stop your car and yell at the kids "You are not playing soccer!!"

Soccer has multiple sets of rules. They're following the rules of the game.

Why do you have to treat golf with such strictness?  What is there to gain?  The Principles of the game are not about giving yourself every single minute penalty strokes.  The principles of the game are hitting a tiny white ball towards a hole.  Hoping to make the ball into the hole at some point. 

The Principles are not about "not giving yourself every single minute penalty strokes [sic]". And once again, I'll remind you and others that I have not seen anyone here who actually cares about what someone they'll never meet is doing. But pointing out that their scores aren't very meaningful doesn't mean they're "treating golf with such strictness." It's just a statement of fact.

The Principles of the game are not "hitting a tiny white ball toward a hole." They are the foundation upon which the rules are based. We even have a thread about the booklet that describes the Principles in detail:

There aren't that many. Give it a read.

[JP golf]

Wow guys all of us - a bit of semantics here in my opinion.  I understand @Mike Boatright,  I'm not mad that that's his form of golf.  I agree that there is no valid handicap with that style of play for sure, but I wouldn't not play with Mike B.  because he doesn't "play OB".   (Now, I'm not betting the guy or implying that anyone wouldn't play with Mike B. ) 

@pumaAttack I got you too man and understand where your coming from and the point you're making.  I played baseball my whole life, 6 on 6 pitchers poison and right field is an out...  I also played real baseball...  My friends in the 6 on 6 game that never played organized ball loved playing baseball - yes they played baseball but they didn't play baseball...  (really?, yes really) lol...   This is where we are with this convo guys...

We should all be able to understand both sides...    I think the tone of the conversation got a little defensive and aggressive.

We are all here for fun and because we love golf (or a game that resembles it )....    Hit em good!  Go get some GIR's and nGIR's!!!!!    Have fun!!!!

Now, I'm going to play golf tomorrow.... I mean best ball (captains choice) and help do my portion of contributing to the United Way!!!  ... wait, does my hole in one count as a hole in one? 

And....  no - I don't carry the rules with me on the course - just use my phone if needed.

Edited October 9, 2015 by JP golf

[Fourputt]

And I'm playing tomorrow, showing up as a single, and regardless of who I'm playing with or how they approach the game, I'm sure I'll have a great time.  I'll play by the rules and those I get paired with will play as they wish.  It doesn't matter to me.

I'm not one who particularly cares about how anyone chooses to play.  What I do care about is someone who professes to carry a single digit handicap, then rants about how the rules are meaningless to him.  Sorry but an actual handicap and the rules are inseparable.  Then to couch his statements with the inference that those of us who do believe that the rules mean something are somehow fantasizing or stiff necked is an actionable accusation.  

Golf by the rules and fun are not inseparable.

[mvmac]

 

Meh, I don't see the harm.  Maybe not "relaxed" to you, but that is your own interpretation.  I know that most handicaps are inflated anyways.  I have more important things to worry about than whether a golfer is posting a "Official Rules" score.  It's not like we are talking about the PGA tour.

Time to lighten up and have more fun on the course.  Golf would be more popular if people weren't such sticklers for the rules.  

@iacas already addressed this but yeah I never said it harms the game, or me or anyone else (unless you're Boatright's partner in a money match). My original intent was to just back up what @Shindig posted. As usual @pumaAttack you're making an effort to mischaracterize other's posts.

Do you think every soccer game, baseball match, football game should follow every single rule too?  Why does golf have to be that way?

Like I said, I don't care what anyone does, he could kick the ball down the fairway but you can't expect others to agree with him when he says he plays golf and he makes up his own rules.. Not trying to be harsh, just is what it is.

Golf by the rules and fun are not inseparable.

Exactly, I don't get why playing by the Rules means you can't have fun. I'd argue playing by the Rules leads to more fun. More people will want to play with you, you can play in competitions and you'll get invites to member/guest type of events. 

Edited October 9, 2015 by mvmac

[Mike Boatright]

I play by the rules 99.9 % of the time. I play it down except when it's plugged and I don't play out of bounds,but on my home course there is no out o bounds. Trust me I play real golf I hit it and hit it again that's golf. I do take relief from sand filled divots in the fairway because that's the way it should be.

Edited October 9, 2015 by Mike Boatright