Am I heading in the right direction finding my own swing?

[mvmac]

I think chipping if doing right teaches one NOT TO FLIP AT IMPACT. If you do a " bigger chip', it will actually lead you to swing with your arms. The difference is shiort chip require a very firm wrist, but a half swing require you to hold thethe club lightly and let the wrist hinged naturally during backiswing and back to firm when club head passes hind leg to avoid flipping. Isn't this right?

I disagree that it will teach you not to flip when you make a full swing. Chipping without flipping isn't very hard, making a full swing without flipping is much harder. You're adding more variables into the movement. You have to get more "stuff" right.

[Lihu]

I think chipping if doing right teaches one NOT TO FLIP AT IMPACT. If you do a " bigger chip', it will actually lead you to swing with your arms. The difference is shiort chip require a very firm wrist, but a half swing require you to hold thethe club lightly and let the wrist hinged naturally during backiswing and back to firm when club head passes hind leg to avoid flipping. Isn't this right?

 

It's not a linear thing, so a full swing is not exactly just a longer chip. If you treat it that way you might end up being able to drive the ball something like 180 yards or so.

Look up "flying wedge" on a blog on this site. . .

[craps]

I am sure you guys are aware of 'the modern swing' , a swing even Tiger Woods is trying to change to. The modern swing is a swing where there is lot of connection in the swing so that a less athletic person can perform  easily and get great consistency. It is a 3/4 compact swing with a lot of emphasis on set up. Its like setting up Iron BryonBryon.Once it is setup all you need to do is press a button.   It involves the proper grip, the proper stance with right hand very close to body for the elbow to bend towards L shape. Its like locking all the gears in place in a machine. The REAL swing starts when club head reaches hind leg in downswing. That is where what Ben Hogan said that he wished he has 3 right hands. The club head accelerate as if the ball is 3 inches in front. I don't see a loss in distance with this type of swing. What I find is this type of swing cures OVER THE TOP, cures DROP HANDS INTO THE SLOT and cures flipping.                                                             I am not condemning the conventional swing but if you are not athletic or flexible, it too difficult to execute. It promotes a lot of separation and timing is hard to master.                                                                 In short, there is NO MORE FULL SWING IN MY GOLF SWING AND THAT TAKES A LOT OF BURDEN OFF.                                       This swing don't require one to roll over the hands to the finish. Its something like a Zach Joohson type of finish.

Edited October 10, 2015 by craps

[mvmac]

I am sure you guys are aware of 'the modern swing' , a swing even Tiger Woods is trying to change to. The modern swing is a swing where there is lot of connection in the swing so that a less athletic person can perform  easily and get great consistency. It is a 3/4 compact swing with a lot of emphasis on set up. Its like setting up Iron BryonBryon.Once it is setup all you need to do is press a button.   It involves the proper grip, the proper stance with right hand very close to body for the elbow to bend towards L shape. Its like locking all the gears in place in a machine. The REAL swing starts when club head reaches hind leg in downswing. That is where what Ben Hogan said that he wished he has 3 right hands. The club head accelerate as if the ball is 3 inches in front. I don't see a loss in distance with this type of swing. What I find is this type of swing cures OVER THE TOP, cures DROP HANDS INTO THE SLOT and cures flipping.                                                   I am not condemning the conventional swing but if you are not athletic or flexible, it too difficult to execute. It promotes a lot of separation and timing is hard to master.

Yeah, I don't know what you mean. There aren't "conventional" or "modern" swings or swings where you can just set-up everything perfect and "push a button", there are just swings and everyone has their instincts and tendencies.

Ok let's get this thread back on topic now, thanks.

 

[craps]

Well modern is just a name. My guess is because of the modern equipment in golf , with the right flex in the golf shaft, one can actually play decent golf with a compact swing. You do agree a compact swing  IS NOT A FULL SWING.

 

[DrvFrShow]

Just my opinion here, but it's easier to not flip with an 8 iron than it is with a Sand Wedge. The SW is shorter and you get in "that position" more easily. That position is a scoop.

One can play good, consistent golf with a 3/4 backswing.

One must also remember people like Hogan took many years to develop their swings. People like us are not going to be able to do this in two or three years. Quality instruction materials are available, as are quality instructors. You just have to find them. There are different levels of instruction, too. You might want to approach some better golfers in your area about who they know are the good teaching pros. You really want one who uses video at minimum. As you advance you'll want someone with a launch monitor, or Trackman, or Flightscope, but in the very beginning those are not necessary since you won't be tweaking launch angles and stuff like that. That's more advanced stuff.

[craps]

Just my opinion here, but it's easier to not flip with an 8 iron than it is with a Sand Wedge. The SW is shorter and you get in "that position" more easily. That position is a scoop.

One can play good, consistent golf with a 3/4 backswing.

One must also remember people like Hogan took many years to develop their swings. People like us are not going to be able to do this in two or three years. Quality instruction materials are available, as are quality instructors. You just have to find them. There are different levels of instruction, too. You might want to approach some better golfers in your area about who they know are the good teaching pros. You really want one who uses video at minimum. As you advance you'll want someone with a launch monitor, or Trackman, or Flightscope, but in the very beginning those are not necessary since you won't be tweaking launch angles and stuff like that. That's more advanced stuff.

I think I roughly know what I will encounter with a proper lesson because I have seen people taking lessons. Conventional swing in my terms means one piece takeaway, then when club reach waist height, fully cock your wrist and hinge the club, Turn shoulders 90 degrees and hips 45 degrees. Initiate downswing with a little bum of the left hip. Drop hands into the slot and supinate hands back to compress the ball and then rotate hands to get to the full follow through position. TOO MUCH FOR ME. by the way if one were to bow left wrist and cock right wrist before impact like Jordan Speith, there will be no more flipping. Just my observance.

Edited October 10, 2015 by craps

[mvmac]

Well modern is just a name. My guess is because of the modern equipment in golf , with the right flex in the golf shaft, one can actually play decent golf with a compact swing. You do agree a compact swing  IS NOT A FULL SWING.

 

Depends on what you mean by compact. Both of these guys have "compact" arm swings but they make a full turn. This is their top of the backswing for an iron. Tommy Armour III doesn't even take his arms back this far.

[iacas]

Well modern is just a name. My guess is because of the modern equipment in golf , with the right flex in the golf shaft, one can actually play decent golf with a compact swing. You do agree a compact swing  IS NOT A FULL SWING.

I don't agree.

[DrvFrShow]

@craps I just want to say that seeing this in a video and executing this consistently are two entirely different things. Pretty much ever one of the fundamentals are dead on correct: steady head, weight forward, inline impact, diagonal sweetspot, and clubface control. You can see it in a down the line video.

You can look at this swing all day, try to get your hands in these positions, but without a 3rd party making sure you get there, it won't happen unless you're a natural talent. We will think we get it right but there are things we don't get right. Feel isn't real. We have to learn what is correct and repeat it over and over again until we get that muscle memory where the correct move is automatic and that takes a lot of time, and a lot of correct repetition. The golf swing is really not that complex, but the human body is a complex machine with many moving parts. We're not "Iron Byron" or any other club swinging machine.

[craps]

Depends on what you mean by compact. Both of these guys have "compact" arm swings but they make a full turn. This is their top of the backswing for an iron. Tommy Armour III doesn't even take his arms back this far.

Wow! These 2 guys looked so IN CONTROL of their swing. So a full shoulder turn means a full swing in your definition.  Then we are not on the same page. A 55 year old man like me with a frail body can't do full turns. That is why I moved my target 3 inches ahead. That's imaginary though. I make sure I compress the ball and still accelerate. Thanks for the photos. My swing looks somewhat like these but with a lesser turn and a steeper swing.

[craps]

@craps I just want to say that seeing this in a video and executing this consistently are two entirely different things. Pretty much ever one of the fundamentals are dead on correct: steady head, weight forward, inline impact, diagonal sweetspot, and clubface control. You can see it in a down the line video.

You can look at this swing all day, try to get your hands in these positions, but without a 3rd party making sure you get there, it won't happen unless you're a natural talent. We will think we get it right but there are things we don't get right. Feel isn't real. We have to learn what is correct and repeat it over and over again until we get that muscle memory where the correct move is automatic and that takes a lot of time, and a lot of correct repetition. The golf swing is really not that complex, but the human body is a complex machine with many moving parts. We're not "Iron Byron" or any other club swinging machine.

Very well said and you are 100% right in your explaination and I totaly agree but maybe people don't really understand what I am trying to express and misinterpreted  my post. Imagine if I were to ask you to throw a ball into a trash can 10 yards away. You will miss a plenty. But if the trash can is 2 feet away, you will get it every time .                          The point iis do something that is highly repeatable and if it is faulty, at least be consistent. With modern club fitting one can have his clubs bend to compensate his swing. All pros do then why not us. My take is if we do a full swing , we tend to HIT because of the urgency to get to the ball but if we do a 3/4 swing we can accelerate to the ball and that take the hit out. When we don't hit we will feell in control. This is my honest experience.

Yeah, I don't know what you mean. There aren't "conventional" or "modern" swings or swings where you can just set-up everything perfect and "push a button", there are just swings and everyone has their instincts and tendencies.

Ok let's get this thread back on topic now, thanks.

 

II am not implying that don't go for golf instruction. Before I go I need to find my swing and have the pro perfect it. If I totally don't own a swing, I will feel very mechanical trying to swing to the so-call right golf swing. Dies this make sense?

Edited October 11, 2015 by craps

[Missouri Swede]

Before I go I need to find my swing and have the pro perfect it. If I totally don't own a swing, I will feel very mechanical trying to swing to the so-call right golf swing. Dies this make sense?

Why "find" a swing with the intent of having it undone? You may well be practicing and emphasizing things that will need to be corrected by the instructor. I suggest you let the instructor see the swing you have now, warts and all. A good instructor can know what priority pieces to work on, and in what order.   Regarding feeling mechanical: yep, a change will feel odd or different. If it doesn't, you may not have changed anything (depending on the thing being corrected--some are easy, others not so much). 

Ain't this a wonderful game? 

[craps]

Why "find" a swing with the intent of having it undone? You may well be practicing and emphasizing things that will need to be corrected by the instructor. I suggest you let the instructor see the swing you have now, warts and all. A good instructor can know what priority pieces to work on, and in what order.   Regarding feeling mechanical: yep, a change will feel odd or different. If it doesn't, you may not have changed anything (depending on the thing being corrected--some are easy, others not so much). 

Ain't this a wonderful game? 

This I somewhat disagree. I am in the music teaching profession. Being an instructor, I always allow my students to interpret on their own and guide them to better their performance. No 2 golfers swing alike. If I have a fundamental flaw sure I will correct if it does me better but to adhere to a method , you will find yourself more and more confused. Happens to tour pros too. To me a good instructor does not change your swing but correct or better it. That why we have so many unorthodox but successful golfer. Have you looked at Raymond Floyd's swing. He broke most of the fundamental rules. What is important is you must own a swing unless a total beginner.

Edited October 11, 2015 by craps

[saevel25]

That why we have so many unorthodox but successful golfer. Have you looked at Raymond Floyd's swing. He broke most of the fundamental rules.

That is why all great golfers do 5 things really really well. 
http://thesandtrap.com/forums/topic/55426-introducing-five-simple-keys®/

If you can improve your swing to get better these 5 things you will hit the ball better. The great thing is that all sorts of funky movements fit into these 5 keys. That is shown by all the swings throughout the history of the PGA Tour. 

You are right a good instructor knows what to fix and what not to change. 

[mvmac]

Wow! These 2 guys looked so IN CONTROL of their swing. So a full shoulder turn means a full swing in your definition.  Then we are not on the same page. A 55 year old man like me with a frail body can't do full turns. That is why I moved my target 3 inches ahead. That's imaginary though. I make sure I compress the ball and still accelerate. Thanks for the photos. My swing looks somewhat like these but with a lesser turn and a steeper swing.

Well a full swing is basically the swing you make when you hit a full shot. Some might have short arms swings, some might have longer arm swings. Better players are going to turn at least 90 degrees on a full swing and the arms will be in sync with their pivot.

Edited October 11, 2015 by mvmac