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Question on Shoulders and Stance Alignment Effect on Ball Flight


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Of course it does but just a little bit it's all set up relative. It's more of a feel than reality because of the way the human body is designed. But as I said Earlier compared to Justin Thomas who has a +4 deg upswing thrust I bet Lee has a - or +0 at impact.

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Agree disagree it's about as level and in unison as it can get.

 

Lee Westwood at Address. Red dots are the position of his right hip and shoulder at set up.  

A1.thumb.PNG.5063d8f1e1eb0efa5126da8f2ad 

Lee Westwood at the top of the swing. The red dots have move around and up because he turns on an incline. Notice the pitch of his shoulders and hips shown by the green line. He does not turn on a level plane with his hips and shoulders. 

A4.thumb.PNG.81aaec98b9e7fbe39b09332145d

 

It's more of a feel than reality because of the way the human body is designed. 

Feels don't matter in discussions about comments made on what actually happens. What actually happens matters a lot more.

n the end golfers need to figure out what feel produces the moves they want in the swing. Those feels can be completely different. If you want to say, "Oh feel like it's turning level", then fine.  It's NOT what is actually happening. 

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(edited)

Good depiction however it is actually turning level at an angle because your bent over at address. If he were to stand straight up those green lines would be level vs angled. He is about as balanced as Iv'e seen in many swings maybe not the most powerful but balanced.

Edited by Mike Boatright
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Good deception however it is actually turning level at an angle because your bent over at address. If he were to stand straight up those green lines would be level vs angled. He is about as balanced as Iv'e seen in many swings maybe not the most powerful but balanced.

You needed to be way more specific in your original post then.  "level" to 99% of people on here means level or flat on the ground.  You never said level at an angle until this post.  What you're describing would be turning on an incline to the 99% of people on here.  

And I'd like to see you hit a golf ball well, standing straight up.  When describing the swing, describe it as is, not changing it a certain way to fit your description.

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Mike, I think you're being dishonest with yourself, your ego must be huge, or you are unaware, and then you post your views, and although most post here to assist, it's mostly to assist other members that may read your views and think they my be credible.

So you see a lot of pushback against your posts because we don't want newbies or guys who fall in from the sky to soak up your claims - long term members must pushback to offer a clear, factual picture about what is actually occurring during a swing.

Nothing personal, but the leaders and owners here take their responsibility and mission to clear up the "misguided" seriously.

Instead of stating that setting up square is a hidden fundamental, you could have asked "why it works for some but not for others?" "Is a square setup advantageous?" "Is a square setup for everyone or does it compensate for something down the line?"

Edited by Mr. Desmond
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You guys and a few others have the big ego I'm sharing something that's factual and real and every time I get lashed at my the 5 k instructors here for no reason scrutinize it to death. You know how many different golf instructors are out there? They all conflict just take any opinions or ideas with a grain of salt and give it a try that's it. This is a public forum not a north Korean dictatorship that must be tailored to the 5k instructors needs.

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You guys and a few others have the big ego I'm sharing something that's factual and real and every time I get lashed at my the 5 k instructors here for no reason scrutinize it to death. You know how many different golf instructors are out there? They all conflict just take any opinions or ideas with a grain of salt and give it a try that's it. This is a public forum not a north Korean dictatorship that must be tailored to the 5k instructors needs.

let us assume that I agree with you, the first question I would ask is what is the problem with having your ideas or suggestions scrutinized?  It is a discussion board after all is it not?  Let everyone scrutinize and defend your points and let the readers then decide for themselves.  

There are only 3 options when you post.. People will just nod their head in agreement, people will just not say anything or people will disagree with you.  I always appreciate when people disagree with me because it makes me think about my position and go a level deeper maybe, in the end I might change my mind or might become more resolute about my position, either way my advice is just stop taking things personally.. No one is out to get you!

 

ps.  I have had major issues with my alignment and probably still do as I have always aimed like 30* right..  I think I have slowly been changing it, but it is hard to do without a coach watching IMO.

Edited by Abu3baid
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 You know how many different golf instructors are out there? They all conflict just take any opinions or ideas with a grain of salt and give it a try that's it. This is a public forum not a north Korean dictatorship that must be tailored to the 5k instructors needs.

It is a public forum. Which means you have to be willing to take some constructive criticism on incorrect information. 

On your shoulder turn stuff. Do the shoulders turn level when you are standing up right, sure. They are measured level by their relationship to the ground.  If you lean over your shoulders and hips are now tilted. They do not turn level anymore. They turn on an incline. Redefining what level is to suit your argument doesn't fly. 

Also on your alignment, can
 alignment influence path? Sure it depends on the golfer  There is no really hard line saying If you aim left your path will be left. 

Also your problem was saying it's a fundamental. It's not a fundamental. The definition of a fundamental is, "serving as a basis supporting existence or determining essential structure or function"

Does alignment serve as an essential structure or function of the golf swing. It does not. That is shown by the substantial amount of golfers who have different alignments and produce entirely different shot shapes and functional swings. 

As of right now there are 5 fundamentals to the golf swing. 

These 5 Simple Keys are:

  1. Key #1 - Steady Head
  2. Key #2 - Weight Forward at impact
  3. Key #3 - Inline Impact
  4. Key #4 - Diagonal Sweetspot Path
  5. Key #5 - Clubface Control 

We are willing to discuss any concept relating to the golf swing open mindedly. Especially if it's trying to find another key to the golf swing. In the end shoulder and stance alignment are not a fundamental to the golf swing. 
 

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let us assume that I agree with you, the first question I would ask is what is the problem with having your ideas or suggestions scrutinized?  It is a discussion board after all is it not?  Let everyone scrutinize and defend your points and let the readers then decide for themselves.  

There are only 3 options when you post.. People will just nod their head in agreement, people will just not say anything or people will disagree with you.  I always appreciate when people disagree with me because it makes me think about my position and go a level deeper maybe, in the end I might change my mind or might become more resolute about my position, either way my advice is just stop taking things personally.. No one is out to get you!

 

ps.  I have had major issues with my alignment and probably still do as I have always aimed like 30* right..  I think I have slowly been changing it, but it is hard to do without a coach watching IMO.

I know but I never get any remotely positive feedback on this site regardless of conflicting ideas or opinions. If I disagree I offer my advice in a Honorable way just how I was brought up I have integrity.

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I know but I never get any remotely positive feedback on this site regardless of conflicting ideas or opinions. If I disagree I offer my advice in a Honorable way just how I was brought up I have integrity.

So we should just agree with you even if you are wrong? 

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So we should just agree with you even if you are wrong? 

No because i'm not 100% right or wrong just stumbled upon something that will really allow any golfer to get into position to hit a baby draw and get the club into the slot without manipulation. If you scrutinize something enough you can twist it into anything you like then promote your 5 k system while belittling me. A nice thing to do would be to add positive feedback along with your opinion then add other ideas to further add to what i'm saying not coincide with it or demean it. First thing you responded with was an argument like not true trevino does it otherwise that is childish. 

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If you scrutinize something enough you can twist it into anything you like then promote your 5 k system while belittling me.

No one was belittling you or twisting truths. We are stating facts on what is a fundamental. If you want to say alignment can help a golfer with the path. That's fine. That is true for some golfers, maybe not for others. If you want to say that alignment is a fundamental of hitting a draw then that is false because there are many Professional golfers, who are the best at ball striking, hit draws from vastly different alignments. 

First thing you responded with was an argument like not true trevino does it otherwise that is childish. 

It's not childish when you claim it to be a fundamental. If you agree PGA Tour players are the best golfers and hit the most consistent and accurate golf shots. Then you must agree that whatever they all have in common must be a fundamental. 

Alignment is not a fundamental. Showing examples to contradict your statement isn't childish its a way of showing you it's not a fundamental. If it was a fundamental than all PGA tour players today and in the past would have hit the ball with a neutral alignment. The fact is they don't. They hit the ball at the highest level possible from vastly different set ups and alignments. That right there makes it not a fundamental. 

Honestly, it sounds more like you just can't deal with being proven wrong. You are willing to lash out and try to cry foul when someone shows proof contradicting your statements. 


 

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You guys and a few others have the big ego I'm sharing something that's factual and real and every time I get lashed at my the 5 k instructors here for no reason scrutinize it to death. You know how many different golf instructors are out there? They all conflict just take any opinions or ideas with a grain of salt and give it a try that's it. This is a public forum not a north Korean dictatorship that must be tailored to the 5k instructors needs.

Nothing personal, but most of us were as unknowing as you when we began here, we had our egos crushed, we rebuilt them with knowledge, not feel, and not on doubling down on our ego. There are lots of golf instructors out there that have it wrong. We prefer to get it right.

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Hey guys I know this, but you kinda have to agree that a good grip is usually neutral or slightly strong kinda like the golf stance. If you were giving a lessen and some guy was aimed 40 yards right you might bring that up.

http://www.golf.com/video/bubba-watson-secret-my-swing

 

You are now being off topic in your own thread. There are a bunch of other threads about the grip.

How to Grip a Golf Club

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Lee Westwood at Address. Red dots are the position of his right hip and shoulder at set up.  

A1.thumb.PNG.5063d8f1e1eb0efa5126da8f2ad 

Lee Westwood at the top of the swing. The red dots have move around and up because he turns on an incline. Notice the pitch of his shoulders and hips shown by the green line. He does not turn on a level plane with his hips and shoulders. 

A4.thumb.PNG.81aaec98b9e7fbe39b09332145d

 

 

Feels don't matter in discussions about comments made on what actually happens. What actually happens matters a lot more.

n the end golfers need to figure out what feel produces the moves they want in the swing. Those feels can be completely different. If you want to say, "Oh feel like it's turning level", then fine.  It's NOT what is actually happening. 

Rock solid repeatable swing: Fader all day!

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I know but I never get any remotely positive feedback on this site regardless of conflicting ideas or opinions. If I disagree I offer my advice in a Honorable way just how I was brought up I have integrity.

All you post is rambling nonsense, and you won't listen to reason. People have tried to help you and you just churn out more nonsense at them.

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Note: This thread is 2168 days old. We appreciate that you found this thread instead of starting a new one, but if you plan to post here please make sure it's still relevant. If not, please start a new topic. Thank you!

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