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Lihu

How much advantage could the best possible non-conforming (and still played the same way) equipment really give you?

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There have been numerous threads regarding non-conforming equipment. So, how much advantage can these clubs give a person.

I qualified that we are not talking about potato (golf ball) cannons, but rather things like "Slice Away" and the best possible COR for balls, drivers and irons.

It seems like 0.83 is already pretty good, and that you might be able to get another 10% distance? Thinks like "Slice Away" also take away backspin. Seems like you could condition a driver club head in a manner that gives you almost he same results, and the pros would have already done so if it really helped a lot?

Also, some of the things people do to improve distances with the drivers actually make them weaker, so if you put a much higher swing to the club it could break more readily.

What do you think?

All the techies out there should come up with some back of napkin calculations. No one is checking for absolute accuracy. . .

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The average golfer doesn't swing hard enough to get the full advantage of a high cor head. I believe the highest you could have would be in the neighborhood of 0.88 and from all I have read it would only mean about eight yards. For those of us with swing speeds in the low 90's and below I doubt we could get more than 5 extra yards out of it. This of course is just my opinion and since it did not cost you anything take it for what it is worth. 

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Two on the topic that I know of.

 

One is Polara golf ball that supposedly self correct ball flights.   Over the years, I have found some and tried it out.   They do go straighter, I kid you not.   I think this is a fun ball that can help casual golfers with "slice" issue to enjoy their round.

2nd one is shaving driver. I never tried this one but reviews seem to suggest it can add 5 - 20 yards based on how much you shave it, and other factors.  

 

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As far as the higher COR drivers having weaker faces this is true I believe. Tom Wishon Golf company built a driver for women that had high COR faces. He said on his web site that people with swing speeds higher than 90 MPH should not hit them as they may cave in the face. 

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.83 COR is only measured at a swing speed of 90 MPH.  Who knows what COR Bubba, Dustin, and Jason have available at their swing speeds of over 115 mph.  This is the day of technology,  who knows what COR's are created by designers at taylor made and ping for pros who swing at high swing speeds, when a driver creates a .83 at 90 mph.  for all we know "long drivers" could have CORs that are way higher than we normal players get with the same driver.

there are no figures available showing the COR for professional golfers who swing at over 115mph.

Players who drive the ball over 300 yards don't need CORs over .83 .

Test drivers at all swing speeds. 80, 90, 100, 110, to 150.

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.83 COR is only measured at a swing speed of 90 MPH.  Who knows what COR Bubba, Dustin, and Jason have available at their swing speeds of over 115 mph.  This is the day of technology,  who knows what COR's are created by designers at taylor made and ping for pros who swing at high swing speeds, when a driver creates a .83 at 90 mph.  for all we know "long drivers" could have CORs that are way higher than we normal players get with the same driver.

there are no figures available showing the COR for professional golfers who swing at over 115mph.

Players who drive the ball over 300 yards don't need CORs over .83 .

Test drivers at all swing speeds. 80, 90, 100, 110, to 150.

As someone who swings at 118 mph, you still get a total "smash factor" between club and ball of 1.5 or less on perfect strikes, the sane as anyone else. I do know there used to be a rumor that ProV1's had a higher COR at higher swing speeds, but both that and the idea of a driver having a higher COR at high swing speeds is bunk. 

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I can't find the proof?

You don't have to believe me, you can continue with your conspiracy theory of you like. I'm just telling you it's not true. Look up ball speed and clubhead speed of tour pros using Google, it's not that hard to find. The rules for the golf club and the golf ball limit you to a maximum "smash factor" (ball speed divided by clubhead speed) of 1.5. You will find all the pros average around 1.48, meaning they just make consistently really good contact but are still limited by the same max of 1.5.

Do some research, then get back to us with your findings in a more related thread since this is an off topic tangent. 

 

As to the op,  I would imagine you could probably get a ball and club combo to give you an extra 20 yards or so, which would be fairly significant for at least 1 stroke per round. 

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As to the op,  I would imagine you could probably get a ball and club combo to give you an extra 20 yards or so, which would be fairly significant for at least 1 stroke per round. 

To a bogey golfer it's less than 10% improvement upon score. Not sure if I would worry about someone else using non-conforming equipment even if playing for modest money?

I can definitely see that a match between two scratch players that non-conforming equipment making a huge difference, but don't know if a scratch or near scratch would really benefit by 20 yards?

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I bought a couple of Rip Stop wedges that have points instead of grooves.  They would leave a bunch of pin pricks on the ball but I could stop a ball in its tracks on a downhill slope.  My friends forbid me to play with those clubs.  Tears up balls though.

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Not sure how smash factor and COR relate (what COR for 1.5 smash factor?)  

Here is some proof regarding a 1.5 smash factor at 3:00 of this video:

Smash factor is just the COR of the ball added to the COR of the clubface, if I remember correctly. It's essentially just the ratio of how fast the ball comes off the clubface compared to how fast you swung the club, but it is restricted to 1.5 based on the limits imposed on the golf ball and the clubhead by the USGA. If it's above 1.5 it means that either the ball or the clubhead would be non-conforming.

To a bogey golfer it's less than 10% improvement upon score. Not sure if I would worry about someone else using non-conforming equipment even if playing for modest money?

I can definitely see that a match between two scratch players that non-conforming equipment making a huge difference, but don't know if a scratch or near scratch would really benefit by 20 yards?

Still, I'd take a 5-10% improvement in my score in a heartbeat if all I had to do was switch the clubs I was using as a bogey golfer (ignoring the fact that I personally don't want to play non-conforming clubs).

As a near-scratch golfer I can tell you that I would love to have an extra 20 yard right now, if it was as easy as changing my clubs (again ignoring the whole part of it being illegal). That 20 yards means that instead of a 5 iron into a green I'd have a 7 iron, or that I could reach par 5's that are 40 yards longer than my current limit (which, for me, would put almost all par 5's into "reachable" territory, depending on course layout, hazards, etc.). Par 3's are the only place where I wouldn't really see as much of a benefit, just because I am still the same distance from the hole to start with. I would still have a less tilted spin-axis though with a more lofted club, meaning less curvature of the shot and making it easier to hit it on target, so I'd still see some benefit there. I would estimate that with another 20 yards of distance on my drives (and proportionately more on every other club in my bag) that I would probably gain between 1-3 strokes a round. Doesn't sound like much, but when you compare that to how difficult it would be to shave those strokes off my current scores without the extra 20 yards it means a LOT.

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The main thing I am questioning is if you can actually get 20 yards or not? Maybe driver ball and coating combined?

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The main thing I am questioning is if you can actually get 20 yards or not? Maybe driver ball and coating combined?

I'm pretty confident that you could get high enough COR's on the ball and club, in addition to a low-spin coating, to gain 20 yards with proper technique. You'd just need to ensure a high enough launch angle to take advantage of your high ball speed and low spin.

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The main thing I am questioning is if you can actually get 20 yards or not? Maybe driver ball and coating combined?

I think you can but fight the urge, Lihu.  :-)

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I think you can but fight the urge, Lihu.  :-)

No problem, I'm still using steel shafts on drivers and hybrids. My practice irons are blades. Not likely to go to the easier to use non-conforming side of things any time soon. :beer:

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.83 COR is only measured at a swing speed of 90 MPH. 

… snip …

Test drivers at all swing speeds. 80, 90, 100, 110, to 150.

Somewhat related: http://thesandtrap.com/b/swing_thoughts/the_mythical_ball_boost.

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 Back when they instituted COR Callaway came out with a non conforming driver(high COR). At the time the R&A allowed them and some of the pros said they could get up to 20 extra yards. Yet it was not a consistent 20 yards you had to have everything perfect to get that much yardage. Thus since then I have seen posts that said the average golfer is not going to get that much because of a slower swing speed and they might get as much as 10 extra yards. I believe it would not be an average just you can or may get 10 but more than likely you could only average 5-8 extra yards. Each person may get different results but it is not going to be 20 yards and even then not every time. 

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Note: This thread is 1585 days old. We appreciate that you found this thread instead of starting a new one, but if you plan to post here please make sure it's still relevant. If not, please start a new topic. Thank you!

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