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Weigh in on Langer's future without the long putter.


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What is Bernhard Langer's future look like without the broomstick?  

32 members have voted

  1. 1. Bernhard future after the anchoring ban.

    • He will manage with moving the putter slightly away and putt the same.
      17
    • His putting will tank.
      3
    • Turn into a average player on the Champion's Tour.
      8
    • Putt better with a short putter.
      2
    • Who cares, it is the Champion's Tour.
      2


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7 hours ago, jbishop15 said:

Yeah, true. Whether he keeps it or not, I suspect he'll do fine. I don't have the numbers, but I doubt they are better than they were when he was using a short putter. They rarely are. 

So, why did he change if it didn't help him?

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7 hours ago, jbishop15 said:

Yeah, true. Whether he keeps it or not, I suspect he'll do fine. I don't have the numbers, but I doubt they are better than they were when he was using a short putter. They rarely are. 

Of course the numbers aren't better.  He is just using the long putter for fun.... 

Anchor ban makes sense but that is another thread. 

 

Edited by Valleygolfer
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3 hours ago, Chris E said:

So, why did he change if it didn't help him?

 

3 hours ago, Valleygolfer said:

Of course the numbers aren't better.  He is just using the long putter for fun.... 

Anchor ban makes sense but that is another thread. 

 

There is no evidence to suggest that long putters improve putting stats. Adam Scott has not been that much better since he switched from short to long. If they give no tangible benefit, banning them makes no sense of the argument is that the increase performance.

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1 hour ago, jbishop15 said:

 

There is no evidence to suggest that long putters improve putting stats. Adam Scott has not been that much better since he switched from short to long. If they give no tangible benefit, banning them makes no sense of the argument is that the increase performance.

Long putters are not banned...  

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7 hours ago, jbishop15 said:

 

There is no evidence to suggest that long putters improve putting stats. Adam Scott has not been that much better since he switched from short to long. If they give no tangible benefit, banning them makes no sense of the argument is that the increase performance.

lol. So, the guys that changed to long anchored putter just flipped a coin one morning and decided? Reminds me of an old Andrew Dice Clay joke. 

I voted Langer will be average. He benefited from anchoring, to the tune of several million dollars and titles beating old dudes with a gloss over of his yips, with internet fanboys saying it was just a random choice because there 'is no evidence it improved' his putting. lol.

FYI, it increases performance due to real time issues. Comparing stats over years and saying it made no difference is folly. Else, he wouldn't have changed. Play a game and guess what his stats would've been if he hadn't changed. 

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1 minute ago, Chris E said:

lol. So, the guys that changed to long anchored putter just flipped a coin one morning and decided? Reminds me of an old Andrew Dice Clay joke. 

I voted Langer will be average. He benefited from anchoring, to the tune of several million dollars and titles beating old dudes with a gloss over of his yips, with internet fanboys saying it was just a random choice because there 'is no evidence it improved' his putting. lol.

FYI, it increases performance due to real time issues. Comparing stats over years and saying it made no difference is folly. Else, he wouldn't have changed. Play a game and guess what his stats would've been if he hadn't changed. 

How about we just take a look at his stats pre-long putter and post-long putter. That seems reasonable to me.

1997 (the year he switched): 

Putting Average: 1.804

Putts Per Round: 29.00

1996 (the year before): 

Putting Average: 1.865

Putts Per Round: 30.71

 

1990 (Langer's Prime): 

Putting Average: 1.817

Putts Per Round: 29.69 

2004: 

Putting Average: 1.777 (99)

Putts Per Round: 28.95 (76th)

Strokes Gained Putting: -.255 (165)

 

Any improvement with the long putter, seven years after adopting and seven years of practice, is kind of small. He's still a mediocre putter (at best) no matter which way you look at it.

If you want to count his Champions Tour putting numbers (he's ranked #1 in several stats this year), you also have to acknowledge that his best putting years on the Champions Tour would rank  pretty damn low on the PGA Tour, which is the highest level of competition. 

There is not a huge numbers bump with the longer, anchored putters over the shorter (or non-anchored) ones. The only argument for it's performance enhancing benefits could come from psychologically reassuring players, and perhaps making them press a little less on the course and not try to hit it perfectly because they trusted their putters more. 

We'll take a look at the 1996 and 1997 numbers in terms of ball striking this time: 

1997: 

GIR: 64.39%

Birdie Average: 2.77

1996: 

GIR: 63.07%

Birdie Average: 2.89

 

2004 v. 1990

1990:

GIR: 60.68%

Birdie Average: 3.38

2004:

GIR: 65.25%

Birdie Average: 3.44

 

The narrative around anchored putters is that they turn bad putters into good ones, and that just isn't true. A bad putter is a bad putter, and any bump in performance from Langer could as easily be explained by other things. His ball striking is the hallmark of his game, and the reason why he has kicked so much ass this year. He's hit 75% of his greens! He could putt with a greased pig and still do well. 

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12 minutes ago, jbishop15 said:

The narrative around anchored putters is that they turn bad putters into good ones, and that just isn't true. A bad putter is a bad putter, and any bump in performance from Langer could as easily be explained by other things. His ball striking is the hallmark of his game, and the reason why he has kicked so much ass this year. He's hit 75% of his greens! He could putt with a greased pig and still do well. 

I don't think that's necessarily the narrative.

Adam Scott was good, and then got pretty bad, then got to be at least "not terrible" to "decent" or "average" with the long putter.

Putting stats (particularly weak ones like "putts per round" which matter very much how well you're hitting the ball) don't and can't show the whole story. Not without a ton more data.

Generally speaking, despite the fact that players often make stupid decisions, most of them wouldn't anchor a long putter if they didn't think it helped them.


That's not why anchoring was banned, though. It was banned because it isn't "a stroke."

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1 minute ago, iacas said:

I don't think that's necessarily the narrative.

Adam Scott was good, and then got pretty bad, then got to be at least "not terrible" to "decent" or "average" with the long putter.

Putting stats (particularly weak ones like "putts per round" which matter very much how well you're hitting the ball) don't and can't show the whole story. Not without a ton more data.

Generally speaking, despite the fact that players often make stupid decisions, most of them wouldn't anchor a long putter if they didn't think it helped them.


That's not why anchoring was banned, though. It was banned because it isn't "a stroke."

All fair points. But the Strokes Gained stat from 2004 is pretty illuminating, I think. 

Anecdotally, from the people in my life, the reason they wanted the putter banned was because of performance enhancing issues. I also felt that was the way the media portrayed it, as well. 

Anchoring has never been a stroke, but they let it go for a long, long time. The only reason I can think of why they would make this decision now was because they think it helps players perform better. 

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58 minutes ago, jbishop15 said:

All fair points. But the Strokes Gained stat from 2004 is pretty illuminating, I think. 

Anecdotally, from the people in my life, the reason they wanted the putter banned was because of performance enhancing issues. I also felt that was the way the media portrayed it, as well. 

Anchoring has never been a stroke, but they let it go for a long, long time. The only reason I can think of why they would make this decision now was because they think it helps players perform better. 

We talked about it in chat, but:

  • It was banned because it "wasn't a stroke."
  • Players probably wouldn't use it if they felt it didn't help them. There's still a little stigma to it.
  • They let it go until they realized it wasn't going away and was only continuing to grow.
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On November 5, 2015 at 5:22:29 PM, Valleygolfer said:

I am firmly against the long putter and can't wait to not see anyone using it. Bernhard Langer has used this atrocity the most and I am wondering how putter life is going to be for the king of the yips after the ban goes in effect...

To be clear the long putter is not banned. Anchoring is.

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24 minutes ago, Vinsk said:

To be clear the long putter is not banned. Anchoring is.

Yea yea I've stated that but I find it unlikely for people to use it with out being able to anchor it.....hopefully. 

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http://www.geoffshackelford.com/homepage/2015/11/8/anchorers-go-down-inschwab-cup-success.html

Quote

Langer has anchored his broomstick putter for 17 years, but he says he's not worried about making a change. 

"I've thought about it a little bit," he told reporters in Scottsdale. "I've gathered a few putters, different styles, different lengths, different grips. My first thought is I'll probably go back to what I did before I went to the long putter, which was what [Matt] Kuchar does, holding the putter against the left forearm that way, and Soren Kjeldsen in Europe does the same thing.

"I putted that way for seven years and I won a number of tournaments including the Masters, and if you can putt on the Masters greens and win with a grip like that, I would think I could do it in other tournaments, but we'll see. There's other options."

 

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I use the long putter and it is a big help in pressure situations.  Anxiety is a stroke killer.  The long putter helps me.  I know that one can still use the long putter without anchoring it, but you ain't gonna see that happen.  Some may try it, but they will be unsuccessful.  One surprising club change that nobody mentions is the hybrid.  The hybrid gives me a huge advantage over long irons.  Hell, they are so much more versatile than an iron that is akin to having more than 14 clubs.  The hybrid is a big change in golf history, yet the rule                   committee has never addressed this type of club.  For the golf purist, the hybrid is illegal.  

If you think that people will still use the long putter without anchoring it, go out an try it.  Just too many moving parts to be consistent.  Also, you will always be under the watchful eye of everyone.  Essentially, the long putter has been banned.

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2 minutes ago, Lastpick said:

I use the long putter and it is a big help in pressure situations.  Anxiety is a stroke killer.  The long putter helps me.  I know that one can still use the long putter without anchoring it, but you ain't gonna see that happen.  Some may try it, but they will be unsuccessful.  One surprising club change that nobody mentions is the hybrid.  The hybrid gives me a huge advantage over long irons.  Hell, they are so much more versatile than an iron that is akin to having more than 14 clubs.  The hybrid is a big change in golf history, yet the rule                   committee has never addressed this type of club.  For the golf purist, the hybrid is illegal.  

If you think that people will still use the long putter without anchoring it, go out an try it.  Just too many moving parts to be consistent.  Also, you will always be under the watchful eye of everyone.  Essentially, the long putter has been banned.

This is exactly why anchoring should be banned.

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I have a ping nome belly putter. It has a large range of adjustment. When stretched out it can be an anchored putter but I never anchored it. I had a wide split grip, felt good for awhile and putted decent that way. But never anchored it.

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  • 1 month later...
On 11/5/2015 at 5:22 PM, Valleygolfer said:

I am firmly against the long putter and can't wait to not see anyone using it. Bernhard Langer has used this atrocity the most and I am wondering how putter life is going to be for the king of the yips after the ban goes in effect...

Well .. i am firmly for the long putter and imho the USGA gave some amateurs the big screw job  , just like forcing golfers hand with the groove rule change that honestly changed the game very little ... as for Langer i would be shocked if he did not use the same putter and mechanics just not anchoring his left arm and hand on his chest 

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On 11/5/2015 at 6:04 PM, Broke100Once said:

Langer's legacy and career is cemented.  Anything he does now is just gravy.

I agree! A genuine Hall of Famer, and a nice guy. If I remember correctly, after he missed THAT PUTT in the 1991 Ryder Cup, he won the next tournament he played in! Talk about bounce back!

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