Jump to content
IGNORED

Share your New Strokes Gained Data from GAME Golf!


iacas
Note: This thread is 2509 days old. We appreciate that you found this thread instead of starting a new one, but if you plan to post here please make sure it's still relevant. If not, please start a new topic. Thank you!

Recommended Posts

  • Administrator

GAME Golf has unveiled the new Strokes Gained feature on their site. You can read more about it here: https://gamegolf.desk.com/customer/en/portal/articles/2198476. But basically…

Quote

The Strokes Gained Overview shows a breakdown of where you are losing (or gaining) strokes in the four major categories (Off the Tee, Approach, Short Game, Putting) compared to a scratch golfer.

Definition of Categories:
Off the Tee: First shot on all Par 4 and Par 5 holes.
Approach: All shots over 100 yards/meters away from the hole that aren't par 4 or 5 tee shots. This will include the first shot on par 3 holes.
Short Game: All shots within 100 yards/meters of the hole that aren't on the green.
Putting: All shots on the green.

My stats…

564641b7aa657_ScreenShot2015-11-13at3.01

My Smart Tips…

564641e8b6ba2_ScreenShot2015-11-13at3.02


A few very quick comments:

  • I'm a bit of an odd case.
  • I wonder if I have been marking my short game shots as being farther from the hole than they are (I edit most holes after each round).*
  • I'm -4 in the last 10 rounds on some courses that aren't exactly "easy." So that's good.
  • I only have one shot from 225-250 from the left rough. I guess the software simply couldn't find much to improve (relative to a scratch golfer).
  • I haven't had any three-putts in my last 10 rounds (many of which are only nine holes). So the advice to practice my long putts is a bit odd.

* Regarding that… let's put it this way. If I mark a short game shot as going to seven feet and then make the putt, when in reality I hit it to four feet and made the putt, I would see my strokes gained "improve" for the short game and "decline" for putting. So I wonder if I've been doing that, because my short game has been pretty good lately.


Anyway…

Share your GG Strokes Gained data and Smart Tips! Let's see 'em!

Erik J. Barzeski —  I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. 🏌🏼‍♂️
Director of Instruction Golf Evolution • Owner, The Sand Trap .com • AuthorLowest Score Wins
Golf Digest "Best Young Teachers in America" 2016-17 & "Best in State" 2017-20 • WNY Section PGA Teacher of the Year 2019 :edel: :true_linkswear:

Check Out: New Topics | TST Blog | Golf Terms | Instructional Content | Analyzr | LSW | Instructional Droplets

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

I knew my medium putting sucked. I actually think this is more 25-35 foot range. 

5646571aca036_Strokesgained.thumb.JPG.4b

Jim Morgan

Driver: :callaway: GBB Epic Speed 10.5 deg Reg
Woods: 3W :callaway: Epic Flash 15 deg, Heavenwood:callaway:GBB 20 deg
4 Hybrid: :callaway:  Epic Flash 21 deg, 5 Hybird: :callaway: Apex 24 deg
Irons: :ping: G425 Graphite 6-SW, Wedges: :ping: Glide 58 deg
Putter: :bettinardi: Armlock  :aimpoint: Express
 :titleist: golf bag, Blue Tees RF

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Well....interesting stats for sure. I do tend to chunk chips. 

Game.jpg

Kyle Paulhus

If you really want to get better, check out Evolvr

:callaway: Rogue ST 10.5* | :callaway: Epic Sub Zero 15* | :tmade: P790 3 Driving Iron |:titleist: 716 AP2 |  :edel: Wedges 50/54/68 | :edel: Deschutes 36"

Career Low Round: 67 (18 holes), 32 (9 holes)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Here is mine. This is what I expected, and what is pretty typical from when I tracked strokes gained myself. My short game has been around -2 for 9 holes. I typically live and die by GIR. 

I wish they allowed you to look at strokes gained for each round. Maybe stick strokes gained stat in with the Insight when you look at lets say approach shots from 100-125 yards. 

56465b2b76e5a_StrokesGaines.thumb.JPG.5d

Matt Dougherty, P.E.
 fasdfa dfdsaf 

What's in My Bag
Driver; :pxg: 0311 Gen 5,  3-Wood: 
:titleist: 917h3 ,  Hybrid:  :titleist: 915 2-Hybrid,  Irons: Sub 70 TAIII Fordged
Wedges: :edel: (52, 56, 60),  Putter: :edel:,  Ball: :snell: MTB,  Shoe: :true_linkswear:,  Rangfinder: :leupold:
Bag: :ping:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Edit:  I erased my post because maybe I am misunderstanding what the numbers mean?  

When its plus it means you are losing strokes and when it is minus it means you are gaming strokes?  I thought it was the other way around.

 

Edited by Abu3baid
Misunderstanding

:adams: / :tmade: / :edel: / :aimpoint: / :ecco: / :bushnell: / :gamegolf: / 

Eyad

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Okay, now from the other end of the spectrum:

564661ce0b88a_strokesgained.png.971a4a64

564661d020899_smarttips.png.b46eaf3327e1

What I find odd is that they list putting first, and then short game, whereas I would put long game first.  Aside from "from the the the other" being a wording glitch, when I pull up my actual shots from 0 to 25 yards for the last 10 rounds, they show me 100% within 15 yards:

564661d4701b0_within25yards.thumb.png.5a

I suppose that might not be too impressive since if I'm 10 yards from the pin and skull a chip shot that leaves me 12 yards away, that would still leave me within that 100%.  So maybe the strokes gained eval is showing me something that I wouldn't see just scanning through the "approach the green" graphics.

The other thing that I'll have to start paying to is tagging my actual putting locations on the course and repositioning the pin when I review it.  (A lot of times I'll just tag my first putt to get my approach/iron distance correct, but then just tag the unit walking up to my 2nd/3rd putts.  That would affect the "putts within 10 feet" analysis.

2 minutes ago, Abu3baid said:

These stats are looking crazy..

if I'm understanding correctly this means that @iacas is gaining .62 strokes on scratch players in the short game while @saevel25 is gaining a monster 5.25 on the same scratch players?  Something just doesn't sound right, unless Matt is really that much better from 100 yards in than Erik..  I haven't seen my stats yet, but doesn't the above render this analysis useless?  Plus neither Erik nor Mike gaining any strokes on scratch players off the tee or approach shots is just silly.

I think you're reading it backwards.  The positive numbers are bad (strokes lost).  The negative numbers are strokes gained.

Craig
What's in the :ogio: Silencer bag (on the :clicgear: cart)
Driver: :callaway: Razr Fit 10.5°  
5 Wood: :tmade: Burner  
Hybrid: :cobra: Baffler DWS 20°
Irons: :ping: G400 
Wedge: :ping: Glide 2.0 54° ES grind 
Putter: :heavyputter:  midweight CX2
:aimpoint:,  :bushnell: Tour V4

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

1 hour ago, Missouri Swede said:

Okay, now from the other end of the spectrum:

 

Yeah, mine is pretty "enlightening" too.  It seems I have more room for improvement than you do, though, haha. 

564684b7059db_2015-11-13GameGolfStrokesG564684b4ad970_2015-11-13GameGolfStrokesG

Christian

:tmade::titleist:  :leupold:  :aimpoint: :gamegolf:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

  • Administrator
5 hours ago, Abu3baid said:

When its plus it means you are losing strokes and when it is minus it means you are gaming strokes?  I thought it was the other way around.

Yeah, it's backward. I think they should change it.

Strokes GAINED should be positive numbers. Positive should be good.

Instead negative is good. Negative strokes gained… makes no sense.

Erik J. Barzeski —  I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. 🏌🏼‍♂️
Director of Instruction Golf Evolution • Owner, The Sand Trap .com • AuthorLowest Score Wins
Golf Digest "Best Young Teachers in America" 2016-17 & "Best in State" 2017-20 • WNY Section PGA Teacher of the Year 2019 :edel: :true_linkswear:

Check Out: New Topics | TST Blog | Golf Terms | Instructional Content | Analyzr | LSW | Instructional Droplets

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

I have not been diligent since my injury recording rounds but I am horrible about recording the tap ins and game golf did not record putting distances before so I just add the tap in later. Plus after chip ons and short pitches I would sometimes just record a putt anywhere to prepare for the next hole. I guess I will have to try be more consistent. I don't think any data putting would be useful for this season.

"My ball is on top of a rock in the hazard, do I get some sort of relief?"

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

I was wondering how strokes gained is calculated fear the short game. Do they consider all short game shots any shot after a missed GIR. If so then could it be inflated do to recovery shots or hitting a ball OB? 

  • Upvote 1

Matt Dougherty, P.E.
 fasdfa dfdsaf 

What's in My Bag
Driver; :pxg: 0311 Gen 5,  3-Wood: 
:titleist: 917h3 ,  Hybrid:  :titleist: 915 2-Hybrid,  Irons: Sub 70 TAIII Fordged
Wedges: :edel: (52, 56, 60),  Putter: :edel:,  Ball: :snell: MTB,  Shoe: :true_linkswear:,  Rangfinder: :leupold:
Bag: :ping:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Well, hell, I never would have guessed that my putting was costing me the most... Just doesn't seem correct.

I'm more than a little ashamed at these numbers. Guess it just shows that I definitely have a lot to work on.

sgo.jpg

KICK THE FLIP!!

In the bag:
:srixon: Z355

:callaway: XR16 3 Wood
:tmade: Aeroburner 19* 3 hybrid
:ping: I e1 irons 4-PW
:vokey: SM5 50, 60
:wilsonstaff: Harmonized Sole Grind 56 and Windy City Putter

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

  • Moderator

I don't buy it. I should be losing a lot more strokes off the tee, IMO. A lot of my tee shots can be OB, lost, or put me in terrible positions for the approach shot, which I believe is skewing the stats for the approach shots. If I hit a tree on my approach and the ball ricochets backwards 40 yards, the blame lies on having put myself in that position off the tee in the first place.

Strokes Gained 11-14-15.png

SG Smart Tips 11-14-15.png

Bill

“By three methods we may learn wisdom: First, by reflection, which is noblest; Second, by imitation, which is easiest; and third by experience, which is the bitterest.” - Confucius

My Swing Thread

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

11 minutes ago, billchao said:

I don't buy it. I should be losing a lot more strokes off the tee, IMO. A lot of my tee shots can be OB, lost, or put me in terrible positions for the approach shot, which I believe is skewing the stats for the approach shots. If I hit a tree on my approach and the ball ricochets backwards 40 yards, the blame lies on having put myself in that position off the tee in the first place.

Fascinating thread. I'll definitely stay tuned to see everyone's distributions.  

Several folks here have taken part in a strokes gained spreadsheet that I've cobbled together, and you touch on an important issue, Bill. If you drive the ball into the trees and chip out sideways, how do you count that chip shot back to the fairway? I agree with you that it should count against the drive, so that's how I treat it. Mark Broadie (and many others I've seen on the internet) have a separate category called "Recovery" shots, but I think that's bogus. I wonder how Game Golf treats that.

For example, if you are 160yds in the rough behind a tree after a drive, does Game Golf think you are aiming for the green for an approach shot from that 160yds when you actually just chip it out to 120yds in the fairway? I'd prefer to charge that chip-out against the drive and say that it took you 2 shots from the tee to get to 120yds away. Then you only count the 120yd shot as an approach 

How would Game Golf know that your 160yd chip out was not an actual approach shot? Seemingly minor point, but can add up for high handicappers from what I've seen on rounds I've input into my spreadsheet for various SandTrappers.

 

16 hours ago, RFKFREAK said:

Yeah, mine is pretty "enlightening" too.  It seems I have more room for improvement than you do, though, haha. 

564684b7059db_2015-11-13GameGolfStrokesG

Again, fascinating. 4 strokes off the tee??? Hmmmmm. You've sent me 3 rounds that we compared against the PGA Tour strokes gained (not scratch), and your approximate breakdown in those 3 rounds was: 

Drives -10

Approaches -11

Short Game -3

Putting -10

You averaged 103 on those 3 rounds, and a pro would shoot 34 shots better per round (69).

Certainly those 10 rounds you put into Game Golf are more representative to the 3 rounds we entered into my spreadsheet, but I do know that when I reviewed those 3 rounds you recorded for me, you were DEFINITELY losing more than 4 off the tee per round. So unless the rounds you sent me were unusual, I'd suspect something may be off in the analysis Game Golf is giving you for your driving. 

It could be related to the issue discussed above with @billchao. You scrambled after your tee shot to get back to the fairway or in a position to aim at the green, so Game Golf likely won't count those against your drive- whereas I did. But Game Golf thinks you are 6 strokes better per round than my spreadsheet. That's quite a difference, and I'm not sure what's going on with that discrepancy.

 

21 hours ago, iacas said:

 

* Regarding that… let's put it this way. If I mark a short game shot as going to seven feet and then make the putt, when in reality I hit it to four feet and made the putt, I would see my strokes gained "improve" for the short game and "decline" for putting. So I wonder if I've been doing that, because my short game has been pretty good lately.

Yes, I agree this will matter quite a bit. I know when I was recording a few of my own rounds using my "poor man's" spreadsheet, I was overestimating the distance of my short game shots. I was recording a chip as being say 25yds, when it was actually closer to 15yds. So my short game appeared better than it actually was (impact was a stroke or two difference).

But the same applies for when players use Game Golf, I'm certain. It is very important to get initial putt distances correct, because that will impact how good the approach shot (or short game shot) is rated, of course. So people will need to go back and edit their rounds, I assume, so that they can make sure that the initial putt distances are within a few feet of the actual length. Otherwise, it will throw off the entire calculation. 

Does Game Golf have a good interface to ensure that the initial putt distance is correct? I know you can move the pin around the green afterwards as part of editing your round, but I'm wondering if there's confirmation as you do that so that you can ensure that it shows a 20ft putt, if that's what it was. Being off by 5 feet or so can be significant, and errors can accumulate pretty fast and you'll just be hoping they cancel each other out if you don't set the initial putt distance correctly.

Lastly, interesting Game Golf chose 100yds as the short game threshold. LSW chose 60yds. Was that a difficult decision to select 60yds for the book's analysis (and I chose to follow LSW for my spreadsheet analysis)? Do you agree with Game Golf using 100yds?

My Swing


Driver: :ping: G30, Irons: :tmade: Burner 2.0, Putter: :cleveland:, Balls: :snell:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

I'm surprised that it's rating my driving this well. I wonder if distance is the biggest thing they look at there. My irons have been an absolute mess and are only now starting to come around (at the expense of my driving, of course, ugh), so this will change eventually I bet.

5647817bca6c3_Screenshot(66).thumb.png.f5647817e15a7f_Screenshot(67).thumb.png.3

Dom's Sticks:

Callaway X-24 10.5° Driver, Callaway Big Bertha 15° wood, Callaway XR 19° hybrid, Callaway X-24 24° hybrid, Callaway X-24 5i-9i, PING Glide PW 47°/12°, Cleveland REG 588 52°/08°, Callaway Mack Daddy PM Grind 56°/13°, 60°/10°, Odyssey Versa Jailbird putter w/SuperStroke Slim 3.0 grip, Callaway Chev Stand Bag, Titleist Pro-V1x ball

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

  • Administrator
4 hours ago, RandallT said:

Does Game Golf have a good interface to ensure that the initial putt distance is correct? I know you can move the pin around the green afterwards as part of editing your round, but I'm wondering if there's confirmation as you do that so that you can ensure that it shows a 20ft putt, if that's what it was. Being off by 5 feet or so can be significant, and errors can accumulate pretty fast and you'll just be hoping they cancel each other out if you don't set the initial putt distance correctly.

You just drag the things around. There's no way to enter "20 feet" or whatever.

For my part, I try to make sure the location of the first putt is accurate, and the location of the pin and subsequent putts is accurate. By that I mean that I just try to get the locations right based on the overhead/satellite view of the green.

4 hours ago, RandallT said:

Lastly, interesting Game Golf chose 100yds as the short game threshold. LSW chose 60yds. Was that a difficult decision to select 60yds for the book's analysis (and I chose to follow LSW for my spreadsheet analysis)? Do you agree with Game Golf using 100yds?

We chose 60 yards because we consider a 90-yard shot to use "full swing mechanics" far more often than it uses "short game mechanics."

Plus if you're on a 365-yard par four, I don't think many people call their second shot a "short game shot." It's a 3/4 shot, maybe, but it's not a "short game shot." A short game extending to 100 yards makes little sense to me.


I am seeing, in these early stages, that the strokes lost off the tee is pretty stunning. It's very, very low for a lot of people. Too low, I think.

Erik J. Barzeski —  I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. 🏌🏼‍♂️
Director of Instruction Golf Evolution • Owner, The Sand Trap .com • AuthorLowest Score Wins
Golf Digest "Best Young Teachers in America" 2016-17 & "Best in State" 2017-20 • WNY Section PGA Teacher of the Year 2019 :edel: :true_linkswear:

Check Out: New Topics | TST Blog | Golf Terms | Instructional Content | Analyzr | LSW | Instructional Droplets

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Not really sure about the numbers this is giving me.  The smart tips are saying that I can get back the most strokes with putting but put my approach shots as the thing I am losing the most strokes on.  I also think its a little misleading...I find that the reason for approach shots not being as spectacular as I want is because my tee shot left me in a tough spot.

 

 

Edited by InTheRough
having trouble with the image

What's in the bag:
Taylormade R15 
Callaway X2Hot pro 3W
Callaway X2Hot pro 20* hybrid
Mizuno JPX900 Tour 4-PW
Cleveland RTX 2.0 50,54, and 58 degree wedges
Taylormade White Smoke putter

Link to comment
Share on other sites


hmm...I'm not sure how the putting can be close to accurate.  I try to move the markers around as best I can but there's probably a large rate of error--like 2-3 yards, which is enough to make it useless.  And they use user data for the baseline, so if others are less careful, the data is even worse....interesting nonetheless!

 

You can tell from the insights that they could easily go more granular with this, which would be even more useful.  Knowing that I lose 1.5 strokes from 25 yards and in is much more useful than knowing that i lose 5 from 100 and in.

 

 

 

Screen Shot 2015-11-14 at 9.07.35 PM.png

Screen Shot 2015-11-14 at 9.07.52 PM.png

Edited by dsc123

Dan

:tmade: R11s 10.5*, Adila RIP Phenom 60g Stiff
:ping: G20 3W
:callaway: Diablo 3H
:ping:
i20 4-U, KBS Tour Stiff
:vokey: Vokey SM4 54.14 
:vokey: Vokey :) 58.11

:scotty_cameron: Newport 2
:sunmountain: Four 5

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Note: This thread is 2509 days old. We appreciate that you found this thread instead of starting a new one, but if you plan to post here please make sure it's still relevant. If not, please start a new topic. Thank you!

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now


×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

Welcome to TST! Signing up is free, and you'll see fewer ads and can talk with fellow golf enthusiasts! By using TST, you agree to our Terms of Use, our Privacy Policy, and our Guidelines.

The popup will be closed in 10 seconds...