Why won't they take steps to improve?

[mcanadiens]

Grumbling knows no ability level.

In fighting the good fight with my own temper and observing others, this is certain. In my early years a 30-yard dribbler got me steaming. Now it might be a hook or a slice OB. The temper never deals well with a massive mental error like trying to get over a tree that I can't get over. No amount of improvement is going to solve this entirely.

While @vangator  and I appear to have this in common, I'm trying my best to control it. It does make my playing partners uncomfortable, so the battle goes on. Ironically, I have my biggest problems now when I'm playing alone.

[RussUK]

22 hours ago, 9wood said:

Keeping score is a good way to see if you are improving. The main purpose of keeping score is not to see if you're beating the other guy, but rather to see if your game is improving

Surely the priority would be to enjoy playing, then focus on the score and improvement?

[MichiganLefty]

Great topic. We've got good representation from many perspectives on this. I, too, am the "working hard to continuously improve" type. Often I think that in my pursuit, when I have breakthroughs, I want to share that joy with a playing partner that may be struggling. I've learned that unwarranted help is not the route to go. Even when someone asks for advice, I try to turn the faucet on to fill up that cup, but then turn it off as to not overflow.

I had a partner that went through a very rough spell of bad contact, slicing, etc. My instinct was to try to help since I could see what he was doing wrong. This just seemed to make matters worse until one day he stated that he couldn't process any advice, didn't want to know my score or what I was working on. Initially, I was rather taken aback by this. I got an eagle during this time and he didn't even acknowledge it (eagles aren't like a frequent thing). I thought, "what a dick!." But over time I realized that not only was it better for him to not have the additional noise, but it freed me up to mentally focus more on my game. A win-win to be truthful.

We choose our partners, good and bad. If we decide to play with people that may get angry or not want advice --- it is what it is. I've taken this as another of the many life lessons golf imparts on me.

  

[turtleback]

22 hours ago, 9wood said:

Well I golfed with the guy quite a bit and I just wish that he would stop grumbling about his shots if he's not going to make any changes to help him improve. I guess in a sense you could call me selfish since I personally enjoy my outing much better when I don't have to play golf with a constant grumbler. This was probably my final year of partnering up with this individual. If I make a bad shot, which I do, unlike him I don't grumble about it, instead I laugh at myself and move on. Next year I plan on teaming up with players who don't grumble so much.

I really still do not get it.  It sounds like you are saying that you would be OK with this guy's grumbling if only he were trying to improve his game.  Someone can be working their butts off trying to improve and still grumble at bad shots - the two really are not connected.  I just find it really strange that the problem is his grumbling yet you blame your feelings about him on his failure to live up to what you think he should be doing about improving.

And even in the end you say you want to team up with players that do not grumble as much  But what if THEY aren't trying to get better either?

[jamo]

It's easier not to.

[9wood]

9 hours ago, RussUK said:

Surely the priority would be to enjoy playing, then focus on the score and improvement?

Seeing improvements on the scorecard is enjoyment. 

5 hours ago, turtleback said:

I really still do not get it.  It sounds like you are saying that you would be OK with this guy's grumbling if only he were trying to improve his game.  Someone can be working their butts off trying to improve and still grumble at bad shots - the two really are not connected.  I just find it really strange that the problem is his grumbling yet you blame your feelings about him on his failure to live up to what you think he should be doing about improving.

And even in the end you say you want to team up with players that do not grumble as much  But what if THEY aren't trying to get better either?

In my experience individuals who make improvements grumble less simply because they get excited when they see improvements in their game. For example, I use to get pretty upset because I use to have a terrible short game until I had a few instructions before I saw major improvements in my short game. Seeing those improvements got me so excited that I couldn't wait to pass along what I learned. Problem is - nobody but me cares.

[iacas]

4 hours ago, 9wood said:

Seeing improvements on the scorecard is enjoyment.

That might be true for you.

Other guys might just enjoy being outside, hitting a few good shots, drinking a beer, hanging with his buddies… whatever.

[mvmac]

4 hours ago, 9wood said:

Seeing improvements on the scorecard is enjoyment. 

Scores can sometimes "lie". Not saying it's not fun to shoot good scores but I've had some recent rounds where I've scored well with a majority of my shots being "good" misses. I tend to get the most enjoyment when I pull off a tough shot, seeing the work I do in practice become a reality on the course. Everyone is a little different.

[vangator]

23 hours ago, mcanadiens said:

Grumbling knows no ability level.

In fighting the good fight with my own temper and observing others, this is certain. In my early years a 30-yard dribbler got me steaming. Now it might be a hook or a slice OB. The temper never deals well with a massive mental error like trying to get over a tree that I can't get over. No amount of improvement is going to solve this entirely.

While @vangator  and I appear to have this in common, I'm trying my best to control it. It does make my playing partners uncomfortable, so the battle goes on. Ironically, I have my biggest problems now when I'm playing alone.

I didn't say I moaned and threw F-bombs.   I haven't gotten mad on a golf course in years.  It's not fun playing with someone who constantly complains or especially throws clubs.  I can understand an F-bomb or two.  Nowadays, I take each and every shot as a chance to improve.

I regularly play with a guy who takes lessons, practices and tries to improve, but he never does.  

[mcanadiens]

33 minutes ago, vangator said:

I didn't say I moaned and threw F-bombs.   I haven't gotten mad on a golf course in years.  It's not fun playing with someone who constantly complains or especially throws clubs.  I can understand an F-bomb or two.  Nowadays, I take each and every shot as a chance to improve.

I regularly play with a guy who takes lessons, practices and tries to improve, but he never does.  

Alright. Sorry for misunderstanding your prior post then. 

As for me I haven't gotten mad on the golf course in days. Four of them if I remember right. Like my game overall, I'm getting better, but progress is slow. 

[rkim291968]

On 11/18/2015, 5:50:33, RussUK said:

Surely the priority would be to enjoy playing, then focus on the score and improvement?

When I improve, that's my priority.  When I don't improve, my priority is to have fun, score be dammed!

[vangator]

7 hours ago, mcanadiens said:

Alright. Sorry for misunderstanding your prior post then. 

As for me I haven't gotten mad on the golf course in days. Four of them if I remember right. Like my game overall, I'm getting better, but progress is slow. 

I didn't mean to correct you or anything.  Just having some fun.

Just as you're making progress along comes winter.  Yuck!

[arturo28mx]

The more I learn about the golf swing and how complex it is, the less qualified I feel about giving advice to others.

[alleztom]

Something else to consider - some people are not good 'learners' - have seen this quite a bit not just in golf. They don't react well or get defensive in the face of suggestion, even from qualified teachers, let alone playing partners. This may also explain why people don't improve, or get help, because getting help doesn't help.

[Psyber]

43 minutes ago, alleztom said:

Something else to consider - some people are not good 'learners' - have seen this quite a bit not just in golf. They don't react well or get defensive in the face of suggestion, even from qualified teachers, let alone playing partners. This may also explain why people don't improve, or get help, because getting help doesn't help.

I am always willing to try some friendly advice...on the range. Nothing irritates me more than advice on the course because when I try something new it's almost always guaranteed to throw me off so I try and be nice about the advice but chances are if it's swing related I am going to ignore it. Course management advice is a bit different though

[Moppy]

One suggestion to a playing partner given in a lighthearted way, only if it is something that worked for me and they are having a problem that I have gotten past, one suggestion is my limit. If they are not interested, I don't worry about it anymore. I help them find their balls and we play on. If they get frustrated, that's their thing, and I might commiserate, if they whine all the time about their game, I ask myself why I am playing with them, I guess. I have never run into that for more than a round and a half at the most.

If I like a person as a friend, I will put up with a *lot* from them on the golf course. Friends in life are precious things. One of the things I will put up with from friends is golf advice. I won't listen to it, but I will put up with it.

Edited November 21, 2015 by Moppy

[MichiganLefty]

3 hours ago, Moppy said:

If I like a person as a friend, I will put up with a *lot* from them on the golf course. Friends in life are precious things.

Agreed, Moppy. I feel the very same way about my golf league partner. Great guy. He may get pissed off at his performance. He may not be amenable to much advice. But he is a friend and he is my partner.