Weight Lifting and Golf

[JCrane]

15 hours ago, TN94z said:

This sounds a lot like working negative reps (eccentric phase training) which was around a lot earlier than 1985. I have incorporated negatives into my training no matter what I'm doing. I feel it adds another dimension to the training. We even use them in Crossfit.

Editing this to say that I am not trying to call you out on anything, I'm just wondering if that's what you're talking about when you say "slow movement bench pressing."

First of all there are very few things that  are new. Things that we think are new usually have been around, but may not be  mainstream. As the case with me in 1985 the lifters that I was associated with did not understand this concept. That was my point . 

The time under tension concept as talked about by Thomas is to increase the time the muscle is under stress on both phases as opposed to increasing the reps or sets. I hope this makes it clearer. 

 

 

[TN94z]

7 hours ago, JCrane said:

First of all there are very few things that  are new. Things that we think are new usually have been around, but may not be  mainstream. As the case with me in 1985 the lifters that I was associated with did not understand this concept. That was my point . 

The time under tension concept as talked about by Thomas is to increase the time the muscle is under stress on both phases as opposed to increasing the reps or sets. I hope this makes it clearer. 

 

 

All clear. Yeah, time under tension has been around for a very, very long time.

[JCrane]

15 hours ago, TN94z said:

All clear. Yeah, time under tension has been around for a very, very long time.

yes it has, but so has high fat diets, but it is  only recently through new studies and an intro to main stream media that we start to understand the science and it's popularity has grown. It was not long ago when everyone was doing low fat 

The same is true with Time under Tension. Most people  do not understand the concept, the science and the benefits of time under tension. It is not just lowering the weight slowly but to actually set the Gage of improvement by increasing that time. As Thomas says it is much better on the joints as we age.

There is a good chance we will be hearing more about this now that someone like Thomas has put it out to his many followers. Thanks for posting !

[OMGolf]

On 11/22/2015 at 8:36 AM, Goldy49 said:

This is my first letter on this forum.  I am 66 years old and a retired physical education teacher.  I was fortunate enough to be able to play football in college and also golf - to be honest, golf got me out of spring football.  Anyway, I started lifting weights as a freshman in 1968 and I still lift.  I was taught that to be successful athletically, one must do three things:  1)Lift weights with the idea of increasing strength, 2) stretch and continually stretch and work on flexibility, and 3) your lifting and stretching must emulate what you need for your activity.  I have lived and died with those ideas for 47 years.  I have read for years that golfers should stay away from the weight room and/or stay away from heavy weights.  OK, I know people say that, but I have found that if you follow the the three tenets I mentioned, weight training is a great help for golf.  I have lost some distance over the years, but at 5'6 and 165 pounds, I still hit my drives about 260 and my five iron about 180.  I think my lifting and flexibility work has helped maintain both my distance and as full a swing as possible.  I just anted to know what others have to say about lifting weights and golf.  Just curious..

 

From my own experience I agree completely. I play my best when I'm good doing deadlifts and presses. For me having a strong posterior chain makes a huge difference. I also like kettlebell exercises, but working with heavier weights has always helped me more. Now I need to work on my flexibility.

[ForcedCarry21]

4 minutes ago, OMGolf said:

From my own experience I agree completely. I play my best when I'm good doing deadlifts and presses. For me having a strong posterior chain makes a huge difference. I also like kettlebell exercises, but working with heavier weights has always helped me more. Now I need to work on my flexibility.

Same here. I play my best when I am on a normal lifting routine. I may not look like your traditional golfer but I feel it helps me a lot on the course compared to periods of where I may not be lifting or just lifting here or there.

[JCrane]

2 hours ago, OMGolf said:

From my own experience I agree completely. I play my best when I'm good doing deadlifts and presses. For me having a strong posterior chain makes a huge difference. I also like kettlebell exercises, but working with heavier weights has always helped me more. Now I need to work on my flexibility.

We should always do what works for us. I think the key point you made here which may be over looked by many who read the post is your 3 goals here . 1)Lift weights with the idea of increasing strength, 2) stretch and continually stretch and work on flexibility, and 3) your lifting and stretching must emulate what you need for your activity.  Too many people and I have found this in the workout section on this forum, focus only  on the first one and minimize the 2nd and 3rd and that gives rise to the idea of not lifting heavy weights. The body is dynamic and needs to be trained that way which means a big emphasis on flexibility. Lifting heavy weights with no regard to the other two things you mention will result in tight muscles and no one wants that. I see far too many lifters throwing the weights around in a herky jerky fashion and not using full range of motion. Personally I like to use pullies to complete your third goal, because I can simulate the golf swing with the pulllies in a controlled manner and build strength dynamically .  Good Post and good points !

[ForcedCarry21]

Any PDFs or Excel docs that are golf specific workout plans? I have seen some like the Joey D workout system but you usually have to pay to access them.

[saevel25]

54 minutes ago, ForcedCarry21 said:

Any PDFs or Excel docs that are golf specific workout plans? I have seen some like the Joey D workout system but you usually have to pay to access them.

I recommend doing full body workouts. Maybe some extra emphasis on lower back, glutes, hips, abdominal, and thighs.

If you don't work out often, then just doing an entry level program would be good. 

[dagolfer18]

1 hour ago, saevel25 said:

I recommend doing full body workouts. Maybe some extra emphasis on lower back, glutes, hips, abdominal, and thighs.

If you don't work out often, then just doing an entry level program would be good. 

That’s what I do to stay in shape. Just pushups, situps, and working on my hips, arms and legs. I’ve heard that weightlifting can develop the wrong muscles, in other words, muscles not suited to golf.

[klineka]

11 minutes ago, dagolfer18 said:

I’ve heard that weightlifting can develop the wrong muscles, in other words, muscles not suited to golf.

Koepka, DJ, Rory, Tiger, etc probably have something to say about that 

[saevel25]

22 minutes ago, dagolfer18 said:

That’s what I do to stay in shape. Just pushups, situps, and working on my hips, arms and legs. I’ve heard that weightlifting can develop the wrong muscles, in other words, muscles not suited to golf.

I would say if you got to the level of a professional body builder or Olympic weightlifter. Even athletes from other sports do well at golf.

I would say just being in athletic shape is good for golf. I would add in compound movements to help develop the muscles around the joints. I think those are the areas that take the most stress in golf. 

[JCrane]

 After 30 years of weightlifting and 21 years of doing and teaching different styles of Yoga I feel totally confident and qualified to answer the question of whether weightlifting and golf go together.  My experience over all those years has me answer without hesitation that it truly depends on the individual. 

Some people should not be lifting heavy weights period and are better off using  their own body weight to increase strength. This can be for a  variety of reasons, but there are many ways of increasing your strength without heavy weights if you are one of those people, especially in sports such as golf. 

Some people  will benefit from heavy lifting and if that works for them , they should  continue, but to think everyone should be doing it is without merit. I have personally witnessed many bodies that did not take well to weights. 

As one of the posters said and I repeat. If you lift heavy consider a flexibility program to complement  the strength training. Putting heavy weights on our back compresses the spine which is already being compressed from gravity over the years and we need to do things to counter that or it can lead to back problems which is what happened to me later in life. Fortunately I found ways to decompress. 

 

[Cantankerish]

On this thread, I previously stated that I get a banana slice from tired muscles due to weightlifting - specifically from tired forearms and wrists.  I now think I was wrong.  I think the issue lies either mostly or entirely with lower body fatigue, even days later - depending on the intensity of the workout.

 

As with all things, weightlifting (and golf), take it with a grain of salt.  The evidence is anecdotal.

[ncates00]

1 hour ago, Cantankerish said:

I was wrong.

I agree.

On 12/10/2019 at 8:12 PM, JCrane said:

3) your lifting and stretching must emulate what you need for your activity. 

This is false by definition.  Unless you are swinging a golf club, there is no emulation of that activity.  Same goes for football, basketball, etc.  A good strength-training program is built for improving one's strength for its own sake.  The benefits trickle down to the activity that you want to enhance due to the increased strength, fitness, and overall athletic ability.  

[criley4way]

28 minutes ago, ncates00 said:

I agree.

This is false by definition.  Unless you are swinging a golf club, there is no emulation of that activity.  Same goes for football, basketball, etc.  A good strength-training program is built for improving one's strength for its own sake.  The benefits trickle down to the activity that you want to enhance due to the increased strength, fitness, and overall athletic ability.  

Herein lies the rub. 

We all want functional strength and mobility (The ability to apply force through the entire range of motion). Weight lifting often focuses on straight line movements which are great for getting a base of fitness and strength. Stretching improves flexibility again excellent for extending the range of motion.

However, to apply the range of motion and strength there needs to be some balance. This is where I believe most people get stuck. In golf I want to get faster.I know that strength can improve speed. But if I always move in controlled motions does it really help?

[ncates00]

2 hours ago, criley4way said:

But if I always move in controlled motions does it really help?

Yes.  You conceded as much when you said: 

 

2 hours ago, criley4way said:

great for getting a base of fitness and strength.

After all, virtually all sports utilize strength training as a part of the overall skill development for the sport.  Does lifting help LeBron be a better basketball player?  Or help Brady be a better quarterback?  Or golfers be better golfers?  If you take the separate skill development out of the equation (meaning, sport-specific skills) yes it does.  You've already said as much.  Lifting has never been intended to emulate a sport; it is a supplement and a basic block of the overall athlete that supports the sport-specific skill development, unless of course your primary sport is powerlifting...then, you would be emulating your sport.  However, even in lifting sports you still have accessory lifts.

2 hours ago, criley4way said:

We all want functional strength and mobility (The ability to apply force through the entire range of motion). Weight lifting often focuses on straight line movements which are great for getting a base of fitness and strength. Stretching improves flexibility again excellent for extending the range of motion.

Agreed.

 

2 hours ago, criley4way said:

However, to apply the range of motion and strength there needs to be some balance.

Ok?  So do some yoga, use balance/stability balls, dance, or swing a golf club.  Lifting doesn't detract from balance.  Get under a loaded barbell often enough and you'll learn balance.  Or are you the one who keeps curling in the squat rack?  🙂 

 No one is saying don't do those things--you've built a strawman I'm afraid.  As with anything in life, we are dealing with finite humans with only so much time in a day.  A person should choose to spend the time in how they see fit.  If a person is not strong, get stronger.  If a person needs better flexibility, get more flexible.  This is not a one way or the other; you can incorporate some good training blocks into your fitness as you see fit or as time allows.  

[ncates00]

On 12/11/2019 at 1:16 PM, dagolfer18 said:

That’s what I do to stay in shape. Just pushups, situps, and working on my hips, arms and legs. I’ve heard that weightlifting can develop the wrong muscles, in other words, muscles not suited to golf.

No muscles suited for golf? This makes no sense. Having developed muscles is not prima facie bad for the golf swing. The failure to execute the proper movements to deliver the optimal strike, however, is. Nor is it evident that developed muscles lead to improper movements, resulting in poor delivery of the golf club. 

Just go ahead and say you don’t want to put in the time or effort into powerlifting. We won’t judge you. To each his own. 😃👍

On 12/11/2019 at 12:09 PM, saevel25 said:

I recommend doing full body workouts. Maybe some extra emphasis on lower back, glutes, hips, abdominal, and thighs.

If you don't work out often, then just doing an entry level program would be good. 

531 is a great program for powerlifting for beginners. I still run basically a modified version of it. 

[JCrane]

As a power lifter of 30 years, I can tell you there are several things to watch out for and take into consideration when lifting heavy weights. 

Number 1 is compression of the spine, It happened to me and it happens to a lot of people as they age. Put a heavy weight on the back of a younger body and you may build strength, but put a heavy weight on the shoulders of a older body or a body that has some spinal or disk weakness and you may be asking for trouble. I meet these people every day and I was one myself.  Most have had surgery and had to give up golf. I was fortunate to discover other methods. 

yes, you can build a lot of power with heavy weights, but you can also screw up your back.

Connective strength can be build by slow movement exercise, encouraging  the muscle fibers to fire as you move the body dynamically. Also balance can become an issue over time if it is not practiced.

 

Keeping muscles stretched out especially around the spine will allow the body to flow more freely, i have used an inversion table over the last 25 years and that works for me.

If heavy weights work for you I say go for it, but to say everyone should be doing it and it is not risky is nonsense and I hope no one has to learn that lesson the hard way like I did.