Jump to content
IGNORED

World Handicap System Now Out (2020)


iacas

Recommended Posts

On 5/21/2019 at 7:24 AM, DaveP043 said:

In following up on @iacas' post in another thread, I took a peek at the Golf Genius website.  The first thing I saw was a link to this:

It includes a reasonably good summary of the 6 handicap systems currently used around the world, as well as a discussion of the World Handicap System which will come into effect for most of us in a little over 7 months.  I didn't see anything really new, but its one of the better summaries I've come across.

thanks for posting this.  Info seems to have been coming slowly on this.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

So my takeaway is that the .96 goes away, it becomes your best 8 out of 20, and it updates immediately.  There are other things that can come into play but these are the main ones that will impact everyone in the U.S.  Did others read it differently?

Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Administrator
3 minutes ago, gbogey said:

So my takeaway is that the .96 goes away, it becomes your best 8 out of 20, and it updates immediately.  There are other things that can come into play but these are the main ones that will impact everyone in the U.S.  Did others read it differently?

Pretty much it.

Erik J. Barzeski —  I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. 🏌🏼‍♂️
Director of Instruction Golf Evolution • Owner, The Sand Trap .com • AuthorLowest Score Wins
Golf Digest "Best Young Teachers in America" 2016-17 & "Best in State" 2017-20 • WNY Section PGA Teacher of the Year 2019 :edel: :true_linkswear:

Check Out: New Topics | TST Blog | Golf Terms | Instructional Content | Analyzr | LSW | Instructional Droplets

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

  • 4 weeks later...

For my own information, I calculated my handicap index using the best 8 of 20 versus the index computed by GHIN as of June 15 (9.4).  The best 8 of 20 worked out to be 9.2  I did another member of our club and his was exactly the same both ways.  It appears the elimination of the ".96" Bonus for Excellence largely offsets the use of 8 rather than 10. 

Anecdotally, we short hitters seem to have struggled with the cool wet weather in the Soggy Mitten.  I wonder if the future adjustment for unusual weather will make a difference for similar conditions in the future?  It would be hard to quantify but I suspect a couple of tenths might be knocked off my index if weather were taken into consideration.

p.s. If the WHS turns out to be a disaster you can partially blame me.  I took part in a USGA run "Focus Group" a couple months ago.  When they say "XX%" approved" or "only X% disapproved", that process included me.  😉

 

 

Edited by bkuehn1952
  • Like 1

Brian Kuehn

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

This system isn't going to make any difference in the long run.  I have never been at a club where all the low handicaps played in a net competition with the general population of the club.  At my current club the majority of low handicappers don't play in any of the monthly competitions at all.

The problem is not about averages, it is about standard deviation.  The higher your handicap gets, the more your propensity to deviate from your "Average" score, low or high.  What this means, is that a high handicapper has the potential to shoot a score that the lower that the low handicapper is capable of achieving.  In match-play, this isn't too big a deal, although it is irritating when you get a high-handicapper who beats your personal best by 5 shots, on average you will win as many as you lose.   

The problem comes in stroke-play competitions, when the chances of a low handicap winning are next to nothing.  The chances of one or more of the high handicappers deviating below their handicap by more than the higher handicappers is 100%.  This is basic maths.   This is a huge problem at clubs like my own, with only a few low handicappers, which means that our A flight goes all the way up to 12.

Taking the average of the 10 best scores or 8 best scores helps, but as soon as you start into stableford or best ball type competitions, you stack the odds against low handicappers even more. Last year, our monthly medal was always won by a (different) high handicapper, who beat my lifetime best score on any course, often by several shots.  Yes, there were equal numbers of high handicappers shooting a far higher net than I ever shot, but no one wins anything shooting over their handicap anyway.

This problem is highlighted by the fact that we have several par 3s on our course with a low HCP.  Every week we have at least one net hole in one.  Either a natural birdie with a shot, or sometimes a par with 2 shots.  Even on individual holes the standard deviation of the high handicapper is many times more than that of a low handicapper.

So in summary, equalizing the average scores for golfers is OK for match-play competitions, but to make a fair system for stroke-play systems, they need to equalize player's average scores, and deviation.

Perhaps a stableford system where points are awarded for both net scores and gross scores? So:

Double Bogey 0

Bogey 1 pt

Par 2 pts

Birdie 3 pts (+1 if it was a gross birdie)

Eagle 4 pts (+2 if it was a gross eagle)

Link to comment
Share on other sites


43 minutes ago, Toledo said:

The problem comes in stroke-play competitions, when the chances of a low handicap winning are next to nothing.

At least in my club it doesn´t apply. As a 1 handicap my fligth is 0-15 handicap. On the last 2 years i was the one who wons more net tournaments than every other member in my club. Around 1/4 winning ratio (win/play). Maybe it´s because the other players at my fligth have a social handicap (only post scordcards for handicap when they play well) and just can´t break par very often. I post every scorecard so my handicap is legit.   

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

  • Administrator
5 hours ago, Toledo said:

This system isn't going to make any difference in the long run.

Maybe not to those of us in the U.S., but to those in the rest of the world… I dare say it will be VERY different.

5 hours ago, Toledo said:

So in summary, equalizing the average scores for golfers is OK for match-play competitions, but to make a fair system for stroke-play systems, they need to equalize player's average scores, and deviation.

Deviation is why they have flights, usually, for stroke play.

Handicaps are really ideally built for matches - match play. And in match play, the lower handicapper still wins about 54% of the time. That number hasn't changed and by the math the USGA/R&A have done, won't really change under the new system.

But yes, we all know that when you put 20 low handicappers in a net event with 20 high handicappers, the odds favor ONE of the high handicappers winning… even though the low handicappers will have a higher average finish position than the low handicappers.

Erik J. Barzeski —  I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. 🏌🏼‍♂️
Director of Instruction Golf Evolution • Owner, The Sand Trap .com • AuthorLowest Score Wins
Golf Digest "Best Young Teachers in America" 2016-17 & "Best in State" 2017-20 • WNY Section PGA Teacher of the Year 2019 :edel: :true_linkswear:

Check Out: New Topics | TST Blog | Golf Terms | Instructional Content | Analyzr | LSW | Instructional Droplets

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

If you want a venture in futility go to congu.com and read how a handicap is calculated outside of the US....It is mind numbing. A worldwide handicap system will be a godsend for players outside the US.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites


Possibly answered before, but does system have a time limit? Must you have played 20 rounds in the last # years?

Ogio Grom | Callaway X Hot Pro | Callaway X-Utility 3i | Mizuno MX-700 23º | Titleist Vokey SM 52.08, 58.12 | Mizuno MX-700 15º | Titleist 910 D2 9,5º | Scotty Cameron Newport 2 | Titleist Pro V1x and Taylormade Penta | Leupold GX-1

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

  • Moderator
3 hours ago, Zeph said:

Possibly answered before, but does system have a time limit? Must you have played 20 rounds in the last # years?

I haven't read that there's any such requirement.  I know that in the current USGA system there's no time limit, your scoring history remains in effect, and the last 20 are used, no matter how old they are.  That doesn't mean the WHS will decide the same thing, though.

Dave

:callaway: Rogue SubZero Driver

:titleist: 915F 15 Fairway, 816 H1 19 Hybrid, AP2 4 iron to PW, Vokey 52, 56, and 60 wedges, ProV1 balls 
:ping: G5i putter, B60 version
 :ping:Hoofer Bag, complete with Newport Cup logo
:footjoy::true_linkswear:, and Ashworth shoes

the only thing wrong with this car is the nut behind the wheel.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

21 hours ago, Zeph said:

Possibly answered before, but does system have a time limit? Must you have played 20 rounds in the last # years?

Decision 2-7 indicates a golf club should drop a player from the handicap roster if the player has not played at least 3 times within the past three years with fellow members.  The reality is that as long as a player pays his/her annual handicap service fee, there will be a handicap index in the GHIN system. It falls to the handicap committee to determine whether the index is acceptable.

  • Like 1

Brian Kuehn

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

10 hours ago, bkuehn1952 said:

Decision 2-7 indicates a golf club should drop a player from the handicap roster if the player has not played at least 3 times within the past three years with fellow members.  The reality is that as long as a player pays his/her annual handicap service fee, there will be a handicap index in the GHIN system. It falls to the handicap committee to determine whether the index is acceptable.

Should have said within the past YEAR...not three years.

Brian Kuehn

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

  • 3 weeks later...
  • Administrator

Got a source URL or anything?

Erik J. Barzeski —  I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. 🏌🏼‍♂️
Director of Instruction Golf Evolution • Owner, The Sand Trap .com • AuthorLowest Score Wins
Golf Digest "Best Young Teachers in America" 2016-17 & "Best in State" 2017-20 • WNY Section PGA Teacher of the Year 2019 :edel: :true_linkswear:

Check Out: New Topics | TST Blog | Golf Terms | Instructional Content | Analyzr | LSW | Instructional Droplets

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

I read it in the Golfers magazine june 2019 (Dutch version). Page 144. Wil try to find more on it.

 

Got something. EGA meeting that stated they will adopt the WHS, but give some extra time to implement after 1-1-20

img_5586.jpg?itok=4OeLM_50

An Extraordinary General Meeting of the European Golf Association (EGA) took place on Wednesday 19 June...

 

8C1F1B6E-A5B1-4ADB-BADA-EB06B190E916.jpeg

Edited by MacDutch
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

  • 1 month later...
  • Moderator
WHS-Timeline-sm.png

The vision to unify the six different handicap systems in use around the world into a single World Handicap System required the commitment of, and collaboration between, many organizations.

At least according to this, everyone plans to start it in 2020.

Philip Kohnken, PGA
Director of Instruction, Lake Padden GC, Bellingham, WA

Srixon/Cleveland Club Fitter; PGA Modern Coach; Certified in Dr Kwon’s Golf Biomechanics Levels 1 & 2; Certified in SAM Putting; Certified in TPI
 
Team :srixon:!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

  • Moderator
1 hour ago, phillyk said:
WHS-Timeline-sm.png

The vision to unify the six different handicap systems in use around the world into a single World Handicap System required the commitment of, and collaboration between, many organizations.

At least according to this, everyone plans to start it in 2020.

This one suggests that in Great Britain and Ireland the launch will be delayed somewhat.  

scorecard1.jpg

The R&A hope many countries will move to the new World Handicap System early next year. Steve Carroll explains why GB&I won't be among them

It wouldn't surprise me if southern hemisphere countries would delay implementation until their "off-season" during our summer.  Eventually we'll all be almost on the same page.  

Dave

:callaway: Rogue SubZero Driver

:titleist: 915F 15 Fairway, 816 H1 19 Hybrid, AP2 4 iron to PW, Vokey 52, 56, and 60 wedges, ProV1 balls 
:ping: G5i putter, B60 version
 :ping:Hoofer Bag, complete with Newport Cup logo
:footjoy::true_linkswear:, and Ashworth shoes

the only thing wrong with this car is the nut behind the wheel.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

3 hours ago, DaveP043 said:

This one suggests that in Great Britain and Ireland the launch will be delayed somewhat.  

scorecard1.jpg

The R&A hope many countries will move to the new World Handicap System early next year. Steve Carroll explains why GB&I won't be among them

It wouldn't surprise me if southern hemisphere countries would delay implementation until their "off-season" during our summer.  Eventually we'll all be almost on the same page.  

Quote

That is because moving to a handicap system that relies on USGA-style course ratings and slope requires completely new handicap computation software that is being built from scratch.

US software has cooties or something?

Craig
What's in the :ogio: Silencer bag (on the :clicgear: cart)
Driver: :callaway: Razr Fit 10.5°  
5 Wood: :tmade: Burner  
Hybrid: :cobra: Baffler DWS 20°
Irons: :ping: G400 
Wedge: :ping: Glide 2.0 54° ES grind 
Putter: :heavyputter:  midweight CX2
:aimpoint:,  :bushnell: Tour V4

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now


  • Want to join this community?

    We'd love to have you!

    Sign Up
  • TST Partners

    TourStriker PlaneMate
    Golfer's Journal
    ShotScope
    The Stack System
    FlightScope Mevo
    Direct: Mevo, Mevo+, and Pro Package.

    Coupon Codes (save 10-15%): "IACAS" for Mevo/Stack, "IACASPLUS" for Mevo+/Pro Package, and "THESANDTRAP" for ShotScope.
  • Posts

    • I agree with @klineka & @DaveP043 above.  When a new member first joins the club they cold be told that they are not eligible for tournaments until they have an established HCP.  As you said, it only takes a few rounds.  If they do not to post HCP that was their choice and choices have consequences.  If playing in the tournament is important to them then they should step up and establish an HCP.  Maybe they miss the 1st tournament, is that a real big deal?  And if it is a "Big Deal" to them then they had the opportunity to establish the HCP. As for not knowing how to report for HCP I assume your club has a pro and they should be able to assist in getting the scores reported and I suspect out of state courses may also have staff that can assist if asked.
    • Wordle 1,013 2/6 🟨⬜⬜🟨🟨 🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩 Thought I was gonna be a big shot today...  🙂    Nice Job!
    • Cool here's my tweak, "If a player’s ball lies in the general area and there is interference from exposed tree roots or exposed rocks that are in the fairway or 1 club length from the fairway the tree roots and exposed rocks are treated as ground under repair. The player may take free relief under Rule 16.1b.[But relief is not allowed if the tree roots only interfere with the player’s stance.]
    • I would never do the extended warranty on the $50 slow cooker.  I also routinely reject the extended service plans on those toys we buy for the grand-kids.  I do consider them on higher cost items and will be more likely to get one if the product has a lot of "Electronic Tech" that is often the problem longer-term.  I also consider my intended length of ownership & usage.  If my thought is it would get replaced in 2-3 years then why bother but if I hope to use it for 10 years then more likely to get the extension. I did buy out a lease about a year ago.  Just prior to the lease end date the tablet locked up and would not function.  I got it repaired under the initial warranty and would not have bought it out if they had not been able to fix it since IMO once electronic issues start in a car they can be hard to track down & fix.  They did fix it but when I bought out the lease I paid up for the extended warranty the would cover electronic failures because my intent is to keep that car for another 8-10 years and I just do not trust the electronics to last.  Last week the touch screen went black and was unresponsive.  It reset on the 2nd time I restarted the car but that is exactly how the last malfunction started.  I fully expect to have a claim on that on repair under the extended warranty.  I do not recall the exact cost to fix last time since I did not pay it but I think it was @ $700-$800 and I suspect that will be higher next time.
    • Have you looked at Model Local Rule F-9 Relief from Tree Roots in or Close to Fairway?  You could extend this to cover exposed rocks.  The rule is recommended to be used only for areas relatively near the fairway, a player who hits a shot 20 yards in the woods doesn't really deserve relief.   Players can always take Unplayable Ball relief, they're not required to play it from a rock or a root.  Of course, they hate to take the penalty stroke too.
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

Welcome to TST! Signing up is free, and you'll see fewer ads and can talk with fellow golf enthusiasts! By using TST, you agree to our Terms of Use, our Privacy Policy, and our Guidelines.

The popup will be closed in 10 seconds...