World Handicap System Now Out (2020)

[iacas]

30 minutes ago, mvmac said:

First round doing the hole-by-hole scoring and entering the stats. Riots in the pro shop today, guys in the Wed group weren't happy how much their handicaps lowered. One guy just kept arguing that "it's not right" 😂

That makes me laugh, because… If they were a 14 before and an 11 now, but their buddy was a 12 and is now a 9… they still get three strokes from the dude.

And, if they play different tees, they've probably been doing it "wrong" the whole time.

Also, Mike, what's this? 

C'mon now!

P.S. You don't have to do the "stats" if you don't want to. HBH, yeah, that's good to do. The stats are just if you want to do them.

[Nagah]

Apologies before hand for the photos.

May have to enlarge but here are the photos I took from outside our Proshop regarding the handicap system we have here in Australia.

 

[mvmac]

13 hours ago, iacas said:

That makes me laugh, because… If they were a 14 before and an 11 now, but their buddy was a 12 and is now a 9… they still get three strokes from the dude.

And, if they play different tees, they've probably been doing it "wrong" the whole time.

Exactly! Yeah I thought it was funny. 

13 hours ago, iacas said:

Also, Mike, what's this? 

C'mon now!

Setting the bar low so I can only improve the next round. OMG so bad on the par 5's yesterday. 

13 hours ago, iacas said:

P.S. You don't have to do the "stats" if you don't want to. HBH, yeah, that's good to do. The stats are just if you want to do them.

Right was just curious to test it out. I think they did a nice job with everything. Just hope guys don't place too much importance on the "number of putts" stat 😉

 

BTW I'm liking this

[SteveH]

The new handicap system seems like it may be a little challenging for a while. My handicap went down 5 strokes at my local course while my index stayed the same. Also when I use the online handicap calculator and put in my index and course slope, it gives me my old handicap. I am in Canada but I think it's the same everywhere. 

Edited January 9, 2020 by SteveH
I think I put this in the wrong thread

[SteveH]

Going to be interesting at my course in Canada too. According to the website I lost 5 strokes and so did the guys I golf with.  Anyone coming in to play in our group with an index and using the handicap calculator will get a 5 stroke advantage ??  Let the fun begin

[DaveP043]

33 minutes ago, SteveH said:

Going to be interesting at my course in Canada too. According to the website I lost 5 strokes and so did the guys I golf with.  Anyone coming in to play in our group with an index and using the handicap calculator will get a 5 stroke advantage ??  Let the fun begin

5 strokes is almost certainly due to the (CR-Par) adjustment that wasn't done before.  Everyone that comes and plays those same tees with you will have the same reduction.  Please let us know the Course Rating and the par for the tees you normally play, I hope I'm making the correct assumptions.

To respond to your post in that other thread, your Course Handicap is now :

CH = HI x (Slope/113) + (CR-Par)

If you input HI and Slope, you'll get the same (almost) number you were used to.  If you're playing Senior tees, or you have a pretty short par 72 course, where the Course Rating is 67 or so, that CR-Par) term will reduce your "normal number" by 5.  That (CR-Par) is new in the WHS.

Edited January 9, 2020 by DaveP043

[phan52]

"Net" double bogey is the best part of the new system. I am tired of high handicappers automatically putting 8's and 9's on their scorecard when they go south on a hole. Put 4-5 of them on a card and their handicaps stay artificially high.

Side note: Here is how my index and course handicaps changed. Our GHIN season closed November 1, so I have not posted any scores since then. But my index went from 11.3 to 11.5 and my course handicaps have changed the following ways. My handicaps used to be 14 back tees, 14 middle tees and 13 forward tees. Now it is 16 back tees, 14 middle tees and 12 forward tees. Frankly, I think that is right. I play a lot from those forward tees and there is no way it is only a difference of one shot from the middle tees and back tees. 

 

[DaveP043]

10 minutes ago, phan52 said:

"Net" double bogey is the best part of the new system. I am tired of high handicappers automatically putting 8's and 9's on their scorecard when they go south on a hole. Put 4-5 of them on a card and their handicaps stay artificially high.

Side note: Here is how my index and course handicaps changed. Our GHIN season closed November 1, so I have not posted any scores since then. But my index went from 11.3 to 11.5 and my course handicaps have changed the following ways. My handicaps used to be 14 back tees, 14 middle tees and 13 forward tees. Now it is 16 back tees, 14 middle tees and 12 forward tees. Frankly, I think that is right. I play a lot from those forward tees and there is no way it is only a difference of one shot from the middle tees and back tees. 

So the course rating is about  par+2 for the back tees, close to par for the middle tees and par-2 for the forward tees

[phan52]

Just now, DaveP043 said:

So the course rating is about  par+2 for the back tees, close to par for the middle tees and par-2 for the forward tees

Close. It's a par 72 course, with ratings of 74.0, 72.1 and 70.7

[DaveP043]

1 minute ago, phan52 said:

Close. It's a par 72 course, with ratings of 74.0, 72.1 and 70.7

Yup, that's just what the addition of (CR-Par) is supposed to do.  

[billchao]

1 hour ago, phan52 said:

"Net" double bogey is the best part of the new system. I am tired of high handicappers automatically putting 8's and 9's on their scorecard when they go south on a hole. Put 4-5 of them on a card and their handicaps stay artificially high.

I’m not sure I follow you. If anything, net double bogey is going to allow me to put 8s on my scorecard now (on the harder par 5s) that I had to put 7s down for last year. The harder par 4s will remain 7s and I can’t think of the last time I took ESC on a par 3.

All of this means I’m probably going to see my posted scores go up slightly this year which will raise my index.

[phan52]

3 minutes ago, billchao said:

I’m not sure I follow you. If anything, net double bogey is going to allow me to put 8s on my scorecard now (on the harder par 5s) that I had to put 7s down for last year. The harder par 4s will remain 7s and I can’t think of the last time I took ESC on a par 3.

All of this means I’m probably going to see my posted scores go up slightly this year which will raise my index.

You are not a "high handicapper" (your posted index is 12.4) and making an 8 on a par five probably doesn't happen all that often. I am talking about players with handicaps in the range of 20-30+. In the old system, they could take 8's and 9's anywhere, including par 3's. They will do that far more often than you making the occasional 8 on a par five and getting a shot. I think! Never saw you play.😉 

 

[billchao]

4 minutes ago, phan52 said:

You are not a "high handicapper" (your posted index is 12.4) and making an 8 on a par five probably doesn't happen all that often.

You’d be surprised. All it takes is one bad tee shot to make a 7 a good score.

9 minutes ago, phan52 said:

I am talking about players with handicaps in the range of 20-30+. In the old system, they could take 8's and 9's anywhere, including par 3's.

It still works the same way for them. A guy with a 25 CH is going to be able to take four strokes over par on seven holes. Under the old system it capped at 8, but now they’ll score 9 on some par 5s.

The difference will the the cap on what they can score on par 3s, but I’m not sure how many people were taking 8s and 9s on par 3s to begin with.

[iacas]

49 minutes ago, billchao said:

The difference will the the cap on what they can score on par 3s, but I’m not sure how many people were taking 8s and 9s on par 3s to begin with.

Almost none. @phan52's fears are unfounded. I've seen some of the results of the studies the USGA has done, and rounds where golfers had to apply ESC (or will have to apply NDB) accounted for a very low percentage of the rounds that counted for handicap.

[billchao]

3 minutes ago, iacas said:

Almost none. @phan52's fears are unfounded. I've seen some of the results of the studies the USGA has done, and rounds where golfers had to apply ESC (or will have to apply NDB) accounted for a very low percentage of the rounds that counted for handicap.

I suspected as much, but without additional information, didn't want to assume.

With 8/20 instead of 10/20 rounds, the chances of those holes factoring in one's handicap should decrease.

[iacas]

4 hours ago, billchao said:

I suspected as much, but without additional information, didn't want to assume.

With 8/20 instead of 10/20 rounds, the chances of those holes factoring in one's handicap should decrease.

I think it's close to the same, because it is net double instead of a 7, 8, or 9. It's more common to make a net double and thus need to make an adjustment, the 8 instead of 10 thing removes 20% of the higher rounds, too.

But either way, rounds with ESC or NDB are a small % of the 10 or 8 rounds that count.

[SteveH]

On 1/9/2020 at 10:57 AM, DaveP043 said:

5 strokes is almost certainly due to the (CR-Par) adjustment that wasn't done before.  Everyone that comes and plays those same tees with you will have the same reduction.  Please let us know the Course Rating and the par for the tees you normally play, I hope I'm making the correct assumptions.

To respond to your post in that other thread, your Course Handicap is now :

CH = HI x (Slope/113) + (CR-Par)

If you input HI and Slope, you'll get the same (almost) number you were used to.  If you're playing Senior tees, or you have a pretty short par 72 course, where the Course Rating is 67 or so, that CR-Par) term will reduce your "normal number" by 5.  That (CR-Par) is new in the WHS.

I play two sets of tees at 67.4/118  and 69.8/128.  Both are par 72. My new course handicaps are 12 and 16. I did notice that there is now a difference of 4 strokes on my handicap for the two tees, which is much more reflective of the difference in scores than the old handicap that only gave me 1 or 2 difference.

[iacas]

Yep:

15.8 * 128/113 + 69.8 - 72 = 16
15.8 * 118/113 + 67.4 - 72 = 12