World Handicap System Now Out (2020)

[DaveP043]

Just back from the VSGA Handicap Seminar, and the issue of par was discussed.  What was said is that, for specific tees, par should be based on the way that hole places for the group of players who most often play those tees.  The last bullet point in Appendix E is phrased slightly differently, but says much the same thing, and gives an example

Quote

Where a hole length falls within two par ranges, it may be appropriate to designate par relative to the way the hole was designed to be played. For example, if the hole lengths from all sets of tees on a specific hole lie within the recommended par 4 range for men, with the exception of the forward tee at 250 yards, this hole can still be designated as a par 4 hole due to the way the hole is designed to be played.

This flexibility will limit the number of time that a hole will play to different pars for people of the same gender playing from different tees.  Many courses already have different par values for men and women, depending on the differences in the way a "scratch" woman player would play the hole, as compared to a male "scratch".  From what I heard at the Seminar, the system will incorporate par as listed on current scorecards for use by GHIN, or any other handicap calculation services used by the local association.

It makes sense to me that the normal regular re-rating of courses might expose some places where par should be revised.

[phillyk]

@reidsou or others from WA interested in attending a seminar on the WHS

Washington Golf Event Portal ::

 

[reidsou]

5 minutes ago, phillyk said:

@reidsou or others from WA interested in attending a seminar on the WHS

Washington Golf Event Portal ::

 

Yes, see you in Everett on January 21st!

[RickK]

Curiosity question for those of you who have attended the seminars concerning WHS or have a much better understanding of what is coming than I do...

There are several courses I can think of in our area where the slope rating is probably off quite a bit.  For instance...one particular course added some new tee boxes.  In doing so, they backed up every other set of tee markers then had the course rated.  The rating for the "regular (white) tees" jumped from 124 to 130.  The members there complained loudly about having to play from so much farther back when playing the tees they normally played.  Then the club pretty much put all the tee markers back up to where they used to be when rating was 124.  Thus, you shoot a good score here...you get dinged pretty hard on your handicap.  

Another course did quite the opposite.  They added new tee boxes, moved everything back but did not have the course re-rated.  In effect, pretty much everyone at that club's handicap increased.  

So, my question is with the changes for WHS, would some courses be "required" to have their course re-rated if the scores shot there indicate either the courses is rated too high or too low?  

[iacas]

25 minutes ago, RickK said:

Curiosity question for those of you who have attended the seminars concerning WHS or have a much better understanding of what is coming than I do...

There are several courses I can think of in our area where the slope rating is probably off quite a bit.  For instance...one particular course added some new tee boxes.  In doing so, they backed up every other set of tee markers then had the course rated.  The rating for the "regular (white) tees" jumped from 124 to 130.  The members there complained loudly about having to play from so much farther back when playing the tees they normally played.  Then the club pretty much put all the tee markers back up to where they used to be when rating was 124.  Thus, you shoot a good score here...you get dinged pretty hard on your handicap.  

Another course did quite the opposite.  They added new tee boxes, moved everything back but did not have the course re-rated.  In effect, pretty much everyone at that club's handicap increased.  

So, my question is with the changes for WHS, would some courses be "required" to have their course re-rated if the scores shot there indicate either the courses is rated too high or too low?  

Unfortunately the system will probably just see them as better or worse and that their new handicaps are what they are.

 Courses must be re-rated at least once every ten years.

[iacas]

On 8/27/2019 at 7:52 AM, DaveP043 said:

While the calculations will still be the same, there will still be some differences around the world.  Particular to CONGU, they'll still use primarily competition rounds, or pre-registered and attested casual rounds, so there may need to be some programming to address the pre-registration and/or attestation.

Where is this listed again? I'm trying to find the links and not seeing much. CONGU's site is lousy and only really says they'll be joining WHS on November 1, 2020. 😛

[DaveP043]

1 hour ago, iacas said:

Where is this listed again? I'm trying to find the links and not seeing much. CONGU's site is lousy and only really says they'll be joining WHS on November 1, 2020. 😛

I'm basing this largely on what I read on some other sites, posted by people who I believe to be knowledgeable.  I agree, the CONGU website doesn't say much.  I've seen very few jurisdictions that have released their final Handicap Rules, but the infographics and releases from the USGA have said:

Quote

Acceptable Scores for Handicap Purposes

– Singles and Stableford formats of stroke-play competitions must be submitted by all players. National Associations have discretion within their jurisdiction to decide if other acceptable formats of play can be submitted for handicap purposes, which can be competition and/or recreational play. This gives players plenty of opportunity to submit scores and provide evidence of their potential ability.

Singles and Stablefords MUST be submitted, the rest is at the discretion of National Associations.  The WHS will take effect in Australia at the end of January, and Golf Australia has this on their WHS page 

Quote

Social scores may be used for handicapping if the player’s home club has chosen to allow the use of social scores, and if the player has nominated prior to starting a round that it is to count for handicap purposes. Otherwise, social scores will not be permitted for handicap purposes.

and this

Quote

Clubs have the option to use the Australian method for handicapping four-ball scores. Otherwise, four-ball scores may not be used for handicap purposes unless they have been played in conjunction with a singles round and it is the singles scores that are being handicapped.

and this

Quote

Handicapping of match play scores is not permitted.

So there are definitely going to be some differences between the scores the USGA requires to be posted, and those the Australians will post.  I guess we'll see what some of the other jurisdictions decide as their implementation dates get closer.

Edited December 23, 2019 by DaveP043

[iacas]

Thanks Dave. That was enough to satisfy what I was after. I appreciate it.

[DaveP043]

I just took a look at the Argentina Golf Association, and they have this on their website:

file:///C:/Users/David Panich/Desktop/handicap committee/WHS stuff/Guía-Introductoria-al-Sistema-de-Handicap-Mundial-Final.pdf

Now this is in Spanish, so I turned to Google to translate it.  What I'm seeing is similar to Australia, medal and Stableford tournaments are to be posted.  Casual rounds can be posted if they're registered in advance, and the scorecard is attested by a marker.  I wonder if @p1n9183 could double-check that for us, and maybe let us know what he's hearing in Argentina.

[p1n9183]

19 minutes ago, DaveP043 said:

I just took a look at the Argentina Golf Association, and they have this on their website:

file:///C:/Users/David Panich/Desktop/handicap committee/WHS stuff/Guía-Introductoria-al-Sistema-de-Handicap-Mundial-Final.pdf

Now this is in Spanish, so I turned to Google to translate it.  What I'm seeing is similar to Australia, medal and Stableford tournaments are to be posted.  Casual rounds can be posted if they're registered in advance, and the scorecard is attested by a marker.  I wonder if @p1n9183 could double-check that for us, and maybe let us know what he's hearing in Argentina.

Sure.. it´s exactly as you said. Stroke Play, stableford and casual rounds (with a marker and previously annouced) will be posted. 
As i spoken with one of the members in the IT team, who is implementing the new WHS here in Argentina, it will be launched in January 2019. All the courses where already re-rated and all the scorecards from 2018/2019 where run thru the system. We (players) still don´t know our index but i guess it will be delivery to us in the next 10 days. 

[iacas]

37 minutes ago, DaveP043 said:

I just took a look at the Argentina Golf Association, and they have this on their website:

file:///C:/Users/David Panich/Desktop/handicap committee/WHS stuff/Guía-Introductoria-al-Sistema-de-Handicap-Mundial-Final.pdf

Now this is in Spanish, so I turned to Google to translate it.  What I'm seeing is similar to Australia, medal and Stableford tournaments are to be posted.  Casual rounds can be posted if they're registered in advance, and the scorecard is attested by a marker.  I wonder if @p1n9183 could double-check that for us, and maybe let us know what he's hearing in Argentina.

You linked to a file on your disk. 🙂

https://www.aag.org.ar/wp-content/uploads/2019/11/Guía-Introductoria-al-Sistema-de-Handicap-Mundial-Final.pdf

[DaveP043]

10 minutes ago, iacas said:

You linked to a file on your disk. 🙂

https://www.aag.org.ar/wp-content/uploads/2019/11/Guía-Introductoria-al-Sistema-de-Handicap-Mundial-Final.pdf

Sorry, I realized that after the fact.  Feel free to edit that out, its too late for me to do it myself.

[Double Mocha Man]

53 minutes ago, DaveP043 said:

Sorry, I realized that after the fact.  Feel free to edit that out, its too late for me to do it myself.

Mr. Panich... that strange person wandering around your desktop will be me.  You know I'm kidding.  I've done this myself when emailing a website to a friend and have wondered if they were able to access my email and poke around...

[TRUCKER]

I read this on another site..."Net double bogey is clean, and simple. Your max post on a hole is double bogey, plus the number of strokes you get on that hole." What's this, "plus the number of strokes you get on this hole" part mean? I thought everyone just maxed out at DB, and that was that.

[iacas]

47 minutes ago, TRUCKER said:

I read this on another site..."Net double bogey is clean, and simple. Your max post on a hole is double bogey, plus the number of strokes you get on that hole." What's this, "plus the number of strokes you get on this hole" part mean? I thought everyone just maxed out at DB, and that was that.

That's what the "net" part covers.

If you're a 3, you can card a max of triple on the handicap holes 1-3 and double on the others.

[DaveP043]

1 hour ago, TRUCKER said:

I read this on another site..."Net double bogey is clean, and simple. Your max post on a hole is double bogey, plus the number of strokes you get on that hole." What's this, "plus the number of strokes you get on this hole" part mean? I thought everyone just maxed out at DB, and that was that.

In your case, as a 15 handicap, you can take no more than double bogey on holes with handicap numbers 16 to 18, and no more than triple on the other 15 holes, where you'd get one handicap stroke.  

If you're at all confused, you'll be able to enter your raw scores hole by hole, and the computer will do the correction if required. I've been told that GHIN will definitely offer hole by hole posting on all of its platforms, and I'd bet that all others will as well.

[boogielicious]

I just tried to check my GHIN. The app site is down. They must be doing something.

[DaveP043]

1 hour ago, boogielicious said:

I just tried to check my GHIN. The app site is down. They must be doing something.

Yeah, this was planned for a transition period, the entire system will be down through January 5.  On Jan 6 you can access the system again.  You'll need to install an updated version of the phone app, if that's the way you prefer to post scores.  At the seminar I attended, they told us that the interface would be easy (easier than the old one?) to navigate, and would allow much of the statistical record-keeping that the old "eGolfer" system used to have.  Hole by hole posting will be available on all platforms, although its possible that all of the course handicap numbering won't be in place on Jan 6.