Golf Physics - Why the DST Golf Training Aid Clubs Fail

[Divot Tool]

On 9/7/2019 at 2:33 PM, Vinsk said:

We’re not discussing lag. We’re all aware of lag. You’re phrase is ‘lag pressure’ which as you’ve defined doesn’t correlate with physics. And don’t be silly, nobody here is saying good ball strikers flip the club. We’re simply saying you have made statements that don’t correlate with the physics of what’s actually happening. 

Let me guess...bad angle? Not even close to being in line huh?

Your perception is your reality I suppose.  Unfortunately, it doesn’t mean it’s true.  

Nonetheless, we have a fine product that is being used by Tour pros willingly because it helps with impact feels.  Feel isn’t always real, but under the gun, feel is all you have.  

 

[iacas]

57 minutes ago, Divot Tool said:

Your perception is your reality I suppose.  Unfortunately, it doesn’t mean it’s true.

The physics explains why everything I’ve said here about it is true.

And the last time I saw a Tour player using it was about four or five years ago. But whatever. Kind of a non/point by either side.

[Vinsk]

1 hour ago, Divot Tool said:

Your perception is your reality I suppose.  Unfortunately, it doesn’t mean it’s true.  

Now that’s the pot calling the kettle black. Your definition of what you think lag pressure is and how it’s created was clearly debunked by @iacas response. 
 

It’s not my perception that your lag pressure hypothesis is wrong. It doesn’t correlate with physics. Period. You’re wrong. 

[iacas]

11 minutes ago, Vinsk said:

Now that’s the pot calling the kettle black. Your definition of what you think lag pressure is and how it’s created was clearly debunked by @iacas response.

It’s not my perception that your lag pressure hypothesis is wrong. It doesn’t correlate with physics. Period. You’re wrong. 

I forgot we had that diversion in this topic. I thought it was still about the title.

[iacas]

Yep, you've got nothing here, @Divot Tool.

[DesertDude]

Fwiw, before deciding whether or not to buy it, I used the DST Compressor 8-iron at a golf store indoor hitting net to see if it does what it advertises.  I hit several shanks initially but quickly figured out why: I often stall out at impact and don't continue to turn my hips, and for me the club tends to get out away from my body and moves toward the ball, thus hitting the ball toward the heal (note: I never shank a ball when I play or practice).  After a few swings with the Compressor I realized I have to keep turning the hips in order to keep the handle and club close to my body, something I'm well aware of but have a bad habit of getting "ball bound" at impact. 

For this insight alone it was worth trying it out, yet I came to the conclusion that the "lag stick" training aid - much cheaper (or just putting an alignment rod in or along your club shaft) accomplishes the same thing.  If your hip turn stalls out at impact on a full swing, or you flip your wrists on a chip shot, the lag stick or alignment rod will hit you in your side (left side for righties).  If you keep your lead wrist flat at impact it forces you to continue to turn, especially useful when chipping.  I don't care about lag per se but I do want to have my hands leading the club head coming into at impact in order to compress the ball (while avoiding "hitting down" on the ball) and the best way for me to get that is having a flat left wrist along with continuing an aggressive hip turn (opening the hips) to the finish, not with holding off or attempting to retain lag, that takes incredible timing.  Also, for your irons and woods get shafts with the proper stiffness or flex :)

[Vinsk]

25 minutes ago, DesertDude said:

(note: I never shank a ball when I play or practice). 

Well…that’ll do it. God speed my friend.

[smithyone]

I was interested reading this post because I've just bought a DST compressor. I think the answer as to whether it is useful depends on swing speed. If you swing fast, the club head mass will likely straighten the shaft completely, as mentioned and photographed.

However, that isn't how I use it. I use it for slow half swings to feel the position I need to be in with my hips rotating towards the target and my right arm slightly bent. It allows me to develop the correct position and then try to increase the length of backswing. Increasing length of backswing then increases the speed of the swing, but I try and keep that same feeling.

Of course, as mentioned there are other ways to do this, with alignment sticks etc, but I find this to be a really useful training aid. I've bought others which haven't had the same impact on my swing.

When I swing slow, I don't see the shaft straightening completely. See the pictures here, it is clearly bent even after impact. My camera only does 120fps, but I don't think that should mean it changes the flex of the shaft on the image? 

The shot was a clean hit and had that lovely sound of a compressed ball strike which I didn't get very much before. When I switch back to my normal 8 iron and try and recreate the feel, I'm getting more compression. I've now started hitting my 9 iron 150+ yards, when I hit it correctly, whereas it was about 135-140 before. So I suppose those number don't lie, the training aid has done something for me. I'm having to club down as it is changing my yardages. 

[Vinsk]

@smithyone I’m not very good at photo/video interpretation but that still shot position looks to me like your lead wrist is slightly cupped? Which isn’t a good position for impact…..

[smithyone]

Yeah maybe hard to see in that photo, but I think (hope...) it is flat rather than cupped. I took another video of my swing today and post impact you can see it reaches the flat position, going to cupped later on. I'm bowed at the top of the backswing. So I suppose it has to be flat at impact?

I

I'm not sure whether you can go from bowed at the top of the back swing to cupped at impact then back to straight after impact? But it is something I am working on. I'm new to golf, only started last April, so my swing is far from perfect and changing all the time. But I feel like the DST club is helping me not be all flippy and helps me focus on rotation. 

[boogielicious]

9 hours ago, Vinsk said:

@smithyone I’m not very good at photo/video interpretation but that still shot position looks to me like your lead wrist is slightly cupped? Which isn’t a good position for impact…..

If he has a strong grip, his wrist will be more cupped at impact. That impact position looks pretty good to me.

[iacas]

3 hours ago, smithyone said:

Yeah maybe hard to see in that photo, but I think (hope...) it is flat rather than cupped. I took another video of my swing today and post impact you can see it reaches the flat position, going to cupped later on. I'm bowed at the top of the backswing. So I suppose it has to be flat at impact?

I

I'm not sure whether you can go from bowed at the top of the back swing to cupped at impact then back to straight after impact? But it is something I am working on. I'm new to golf, only started last April, so my swing is far from perfect and changing all the time. But I feel like the DST club is helping me not be all flippy and helps me focus on rotation. 

It’s cupped but your grip is quite strong so it’s going to be.

[smithyone]

Thanks for the feedback. So much to learn in this game. 

My understanding of cupped was like in this picture below indicating a clear bend away from it's natural state. If I grip the club without any flexion or extension either way it looks like the picture below of post impact. 

Would I be better off trying to get flexion into it or get it looking even straighter at impact?

 

[iacas]

On 11/23/2015 at 7:27 PM, iacas said:

This renders the DST a "visual" training aid only. It fails at doing much more than your clubs do already at letting you know whether you flipped at the ball or not.

I still stand by this. The DST, swung at normal speeds, literally straightens out, which means it's not really forcing you to do anything differently than your normal clubs do.

On 10/3/2019 at 11:47 AM, Divot Tool said:

Nonetheless, we have a fine product that is being used by Tour pros willingly because it helps with impact feels.  Feel isn’t always real, but under the gun, feel is all you have.

I missed this years ago… @Divot Tool apparently works for DST, hence his misguided attempts at promoting it.

On 10/3/2019 at 12:46 PM, iacas said:

And the last time I saw a Tour player using it was about four or five years ago. But whatever. Kind of a non/point by either side.

Jon Rahm apparently has one in the bag (on the range) and uses it frequently.

56 minutes ago, smithyone said:

My understanding of cupped was like in this picture below indicating a clear bend away from it's natural state.

It's still cupped. Because it's a strong grip. If you went flat you'd have a hard time not having a closed face.

The back of your hand is not in the same plane as the corresponding part of your forearm. A credit card stuck under a watch on your wrist would be bent.

Look at the cuff and the velcro on your glove.