Clinton vows to stop saying 'illegal immigrants'

[Gator Hazard 154]

20 minutes ago, mcanadiens said:

1. The point I obviously wasn't making very well is that you wouldn't call them either if they didn't exist. They'd all simply be visitors or people on work visas. In other words, proper enforcement of law would render this a non-issue. 

2. The IRS would primarily be focused on tax law. I'm pretty sure that Investigating the employment of illegals would generally fall to ICE first. Think about all those I-9 forms. Certainly there would probably be some serious tax consequences as well, which ICE could make your favorite revenue service aware of.

Understandable but we do have a system where we punish criminals, criminals still exist and we continue to call them criminals.  Illegal aliens will always find ways here, they are still illegal aliens and still need to be apprehended and deported.

Your post had mentioned punishing businesses for employing illegal aliens.  By informing the IRS that their business is using illegal labor you in fact do punish those businesses for having done such and do a part in taking away their incentive to employ illegal aliens, which by in turn helps reduce incentive for illegal aliens to come here.

[newtogolf 960]

3 hours ago, mcanadiens said:

The reason they ought to be called foreigners is that if we enforced our own laws properly we wouldn't have a problem with illegals (or undocumented if you really insist).

In their typical stupid way, the politician's focus the attention on removing the illegals from the country and building walls. Instead, if we simply punished those who pay them illegally, we'd stop giving those people a reason to come here in the first place. Just locally, I'm aware of several businesses that employ these kind of workers with little to no fear of getting caught. With a nice stiff fine against these employers, ICE could fund extra investigators and have money to spare. Additionally, a few steps towards preventing illegals from gaming the social welfare system would certainly help.

I don't vilify the people that cross our boarders illegally. In their sport, I'd probably do the same thing. It's up to us to give them little reason for coming here.

Long Island has a large number of "illegal aliens" living in various towns.  They are hard working people who line up on specific roads in rain and snow to work as day laborers.  If the local law enforcement or politicians really wanted to catch these people all they'd have to do is drive down these roads where they gather to seek work.

I happen to know a few contractors and the reason they hire these people is there is a shortage of people who want to do the jobs these guys do.  There is nothing to stop US citizens from lining up on the side of the road with them, but for some reason they don't.

I agree in some cases, businesses are exploiting these people but in many, the illegal immigrants just have a better work ethic than many who are citizens and prefer to game the system rather than put in a hard days work.

[rkim291968 235]

Come on, Vargas, Clinton.  Sing this with me. 

 

"You like potato and I like potahto
You like tomato and I like tomahto
Potato, potahto, Tomato, tomahto.
Let's call the whole thing off

But oh, if we call the whole thing off
Then we must part
And oh, if we ever part, then that might break my heart

So if you like pyjamas and I like pyjahmas,
I'll wear pyjamas and give up pyajahmas
For we know we need each other so we
Better call the whole thing off
Let's call the whole thing off.

You say laughter and I say larfter
You say after and I say arfter
Laughter, larfter after arfter
Let's call the whole thing off,

You like vanilla and I like vanella
You saspiralla, and I saspirella
Vanilla vanella chocolate strawberry
Let's call the whole thing off

But oh if we call the whole thing of then we must part
And oh, if we ever part, then that might break my heart

So if you go for oysters and I go for ersters
I'll order oysters and cancel the ersters
For we know we need each other so we
Better call the calling off off,
Let's call the whole thing off.

I say father, and you say pater,
I saw mother and you say mater
Pater, mater Uncle, auntie let's call the whole thing off.

I like bananas and you like banahnahs
I say Havana and I get Havahnah
Bananas, banahnahs Havana, Havahnah
Go your way, I'll go mine

So if I go for scallops and you go for lobsters,
So all right no contest we'll order lobster
For we know we need each other so we
Better call the calling off off,
Let's call the whole thing off."

[Gator Hazard 154]

7 minutes ago, rkim291968 said:

Come on, Vargas, Clinton.  Sing this with me. 

 

"You like potato and I like potahto
You like tomato and I like tomahto
Potato, potahto, Tomato, tomahto.
Let's call the whole thing off

But oh, if we call the whole thing off
Then we must part
And oh, if we ever part, then that might break my heart

So if you like pyjamas and I like pyjahmas,
I'll wear pyjamas and give up pyajahmas
For we know we need each other so we
Better call the whole thing off
Let's call the whole thing off.

You say laughter and I say larfter
You say after and I say arfter
Laughter, larfter after arfter
Let's call the whole thing off,

You like vanilla and I like vanella
You saspiralla, and I saspirella
Vanilla vanella chocolate strawberry
Let's call the whole thing off

But oh if we call the whole thing of then we must part
And oh, if we ever part, then that might break my heart

So if you go for oysters and I go for ersters
I'll order oysters and cancel the ersters
For we know we need each other so we
Better call the calling off off,
Let's call the whole thing off.

I say father, and you say pater,
I saw mother and you say mater
Pater, mater Uncle, auntie let's call the whole thing off.

I like bananas and you like banahnahs
I say Havana and I get Havahnah
Bananas, banahnahs Havana, Havahnah
Go your way, I'll go mine

So if I go for scallops and you go for lobsters,
So all right no contest we'll order lobster
For we know we need each other so we
Better call the calling off off,
Let's call the whole thing off."

Ella Fitzgerald sang it best.  The version with her and Louis Armstrong isn't bad either.  :)

[rkim291968 235]

Just now, Gator Hazard said:

Ella Fitzgerald sang it best.  The version with her and Louis Armstrong isn't bad either.  :)

Yeah, I have  a few versions of this song including EF/LA duet one.    Love it!   I will be humming it all day.  I can't get the song out of my head now. 

[Gator Hazard 154]

Just now, rkim291968 said:

Yeah, I have  a few versions of this song including EF/LA duet one.    Love it!   I will be humming it all day.  I can't get the song out of my head now. 

Me either now.  Thanks a lot!  I will have to put it on and listen a few times to try and purge it.  LOL

[mdl 173]

2 hours ago, newtogolf said:

Long Island has a large number of "illegal aliens" living in various towns.  They are hard working people who line up on specific roads in rain and snow to work as day laborers.  If the local law enforcement or politicians really wanted to catch these people all they'd have to do is drive down these roads where they gather to seek work.

I happen to know a few contractors and the reason they hire these people is there is a shortage of people who want to do the jobs these guys do.  There is nothing to stop US citizens from lining up on the side of the road with them, but for some reason they don't.

I agree in some cases, businesses are exploiting these people but in many, the illegal immigrants just have a better work ethic than many who are citizens and prefer to game the system rather than put in a hard days work.

You know what you do when citizens who might insist that laws and regulations are followed won't work for the wage you're offering?  You raise wages.  My wife's entire family is in the building trades in one way or another.  Several of them run their own general contracting firms.  None of them ever hire undocumented workers.  That's a cop out.

[Gunther 225]

2 hours ago, mdl said:

You know what you do when citizens who might insist that laws and regulations are followed won't work for the wage you're offering?  You raise wages.  My wife's entire family is in the building trades in one way or another.  Several of them run their own general contracting firms.  None of them ever hire undocumented workers.  That's a cop out.

+1.  Illegals are depressing wages across a myriad of industries, which is why Republicans want them here too, which is why Trump is so popular.

[newtogolf 960]

1 hour ago, Gunther said:

+1.  Illegals are depressing wages across a myriad of industries, which is why Republicans want them here too, which is why Trump is so popular.

 

3 hours ago, mdl said:

You know what you do when citizens who might insist that laws and regulations are followed won't work for the wage you're offering?  You raise wages.  My wife's entire family is in the building trades in one way or another.  Several of them run their own general contracting firms.  None of them ever hire undocumented workers.  That's a cop out.

I'm in agreement but you have to get the consumers on board too since the additional cost in wages is going to get passed on to them.  

[Kenny Lee 31]

Liberals always have trouble dealing with the truth.

They are ILLEGAL ALIENS.

 

[Mr. Desmond 430]

The NYT editorial board discusses Bernie Sanders' Immigration Plan -- not full of fear and expensive walls -- but more in line with ... Ronald Reagan and earlier reasonable Republicans (when I voted GOP). It's called assimilation.

(OT: The NYT also had an article dealing with Sanders' 8 years as mayor of Burlington VT. His foreign policy agenda was "liberal", but his executive actions as mayor was working with business -- a pragmatic mayor who saved money. Yes, he made mistakes, but who does not? And the one mistake he made was siding with big business. It was defeated by voters, and it turns out the voters made the right decisions - having to do with development near the waterfront.)

Re: immigration

"Mr. Sanders’s promise to increase immigrants’ access to the justice system, with more funding for courts and lawyers, stands in sharp contrast to the Republican view of unauthorized immigrants as a shadow society of criminals who haven’t been deported yet. Mr. Sanders instead sees them as parents, breadwinners, taxpayers, bulwarks of the economy and of the communities they live in, aspiring Americans trapped by unjust laws and oppressive policing.

Is that so radical? It may sound that way, in today’s climate. But it is a vision that lawmakers of both parties once embraced without question. Ronald Reagan and both Presidents Bush spoke movingly of immigrants as assets to the country to be welcomed through assimilation and citizenship."

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/26/opinion/bernie-sanders-gets-immigration-policy-right.html?action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=opinion-c-col-left-region&region=opinion-c-col-left-region&WT.nav=opinion-c-col-left-region&_r=0

Edited November 26, 2015 by Mr. Desmond

[turtleback 734]

What  does her vow mean anyway?  This is the woman who on the one hand says that claimed victims of sexual abuse should always be believed, and on the other hand helped slime and tried to discredit claimed victims of sexual abuse and rape because her husband was the one being accused.  Vow to stop doing THAT, Mrs. Clinton and I'll listen to your other vows.

[Jeremie Boop 343]

1 hour ago, Mr. Desmond said:

The NYT editorial board discusses Bernie Sanders' Immigration Plan -- not full of fear and expensive walls -- but more in line with ... Ronald Reagan and earlier reasonable Republicans (when I voted GOP). It's called assimilation.

(OT: The NYT also had an article dealing with Sanders' 8 years as mayor of Burlington VT. His foreign policy agenda was "liberal", but his executive actions as mayor was working with business -- a pragmatic mayor who saved money. Yes, he made mistakes, but who does not? And the one mistake he made was siding with big business. It was defeated by voters, and it turns out the voters made the right decisions - having to do with development near the waterfront.)

Re: immigration

"Mr. Sanders’s promise to increase immigrants’ access to the justice system, with more funding for courts and lawyers, stands in sharp contrast to the Republican view of unauthorized immigrants as a shadow society of criminals who haven’t been deported yet. Mr. Sanders instead sees them as parents, breadwinners, taxpayers, bulwarks of the economy and of the communities they live in, aspiring Americans trapped by unjust laws and oppressive policing.

Is that so radical? It may sound that way, in today’s climate. But it is a vision that lawmakers of both parties once embraced without question. Ronald Reagan and both Presidents Bush spoke movingly of immigrants as assets to the country to be welcomed through assimilation and citizenship."

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/26/opinion/bernie-sanders-gets-immigration-policy-right.html?action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=opinion-c-col-left-region&region=opinion-c-col-left-region&WT.nav=opinion-c-col-left-region&_r=0

I'm confused by a particular part in this post:

aspiring Americans trapped by unjust laws and oppressive policing.

 

I've no idea how they are trapped by "unjust laws and oppressive policing", they took it upon themselves to enter the country illegally thus putting themselves in the position they are in. What's unjust about requiring people to follow the rules/laws to become a citizen legally? What's oppressive about actually trying to enforce those rules/laws?

[newtogolf 960]

5 minutes ago, Jeremie Boop said:

I'm confused by a particular part in this post:

aspiring Americans trapped by unjust laws and oppressive policing.

 

I've no idea how they are trapped by "unjust laws and oppressive policing", they took it upon themselves to enter the country illegally thus putting themselves in the position they are in. What's unjust about requiring people to follow the rules/laws to become a citizen legally? What's oppressive about actually trying to enforce those rules/laws?

Exactly and I don't remember Reagan being pro illegal immigration.  Reagan welcomed immigrants who followed the legal process to becoming citizens.

[Mr. Desmond 430]

9 hours ago, newtogolf said:

Exactly and I don't remember Reagan being pro illegal immigration.  Reagan welcomed immigrants who followed the legal process to becoming citizens.

Au contraire... look up the Immigration Act of 1986 in which Reagan allowed illegal immigrants to become citizens upon passage of certain requirements.

"I believe in the idea of amnesty for those who have put down roots and lived here, even though sometime back they may have entered illegally." Ronald Reagan

Those who do acknowledge the quote say Reagan’s plan did not solve the problem, but it never truly addressed it. No change was made to the long, drawn-out process and limits on green cards that discourage many from applying. Reagan’s plan was meant to address well-intentioned immigrants already in the country, and according to former Republican Senator Alan Simpson, a close friend of Reagan, that is exactly what it did. “(Reagan) knew that it was not right for people to be abused,” Simpson told NPR. “Anybody who’s here illegally is going to be abused in some way, either financially [or] physically.”

Robinson (Reagan's Speechwriter) echoed Reagan’s sentiments, saying they were still relevant today. “It was in Ronald Reagan’s bones — it was part of his understanding of America — that the country was fundamentally open to those who wanted to join us here.”

Robinson also pointed out that Reagan was opposed to a border fence and using military as guards. He said Reagan’s personal journals mention his opposition of a military-staffed border fence. He also told then-Mexican President Jose Lopez Portillo that he wanted the U.S/Mexico border to be “something other than the location for a fence.”

Robinson did say that Reagan did want immigration enforcement toughened, but not at the expense of an amnesty program. “I think he would have felt taking those 3 million people and making them Americans was a success,” he said.

Edited November 27, 2015 by Mr. Desmond

[newtogolf 960]

1 hour ago, Mr. Desmond said:

Au contraire... look up the Immigration Act of 1986 in which Reagan allowed illegal immigrants to become citizens upon passage of certain requirements.

"I believe in the idea of amnesty for those who have put down roots and lived here, even though sometime back they may have entered illegally." Ronald Reagan

Those who do acknowledge the quote say Reagan’s plan did not solve the problem, but it never truly addressed it. No change was made to the long, drawn-out process and limits on green cards that discourage many from applying. Reagan’s plan was meant to address well-intentioned immigrants already in the country, and according to former Republican Senator Alan Simpson, a close friend of Reagan, that is exactly what it did. “(Reagan) knew that it was not right for people to be abused,” Simpson told NPR. “Anybody who’s here illegally is going to be abused in some way, either financially [or] physically.”

Robinson (Reagan's Speechwriter) echoed Reagan’s sentiments, saying they were still relevant today. “It was in Ronald Reagan’s bones — it was part of his understanding of America — that the country was fundamentally open to those who wanted to join us here.”

Robinson also pointed out that Reagan was opposed to a border fence and using military as guards. He said Reagan’s personal journals mention his opposition of a military-staffed border fence. He also told then-Mexican President Jose Lopez Portillo that he wanted the U.S/Mexico border to be “something other than the location for a fence.”

Robinson did say that Reagan did want immigration enforcement toughened, but not at the expense of an amnesty program. “I think he would have felt taking those 3 million people and making them Americans was a success,” he said.

Reagan was fixing a problem he inherited from congress for the time limited relief for illegal immigrants that granted amnesty to illegal immigrants who could prove were in the country for more than six years.  Reagan didn't want to separate children (who wouldn't qualify for amnesty) from parents so he and Bush (41) modified the mess Congress created.

The democrats are interpreting what was done by Reagan and Bush 41 and trying to equate it to Obama's open amnesty plan, apples and oranges.

[Mr. Desmond 430]

8 hours ago, newtogolf said:

Reagan was fixing a problem he inherited from congress for the time limited relief for illegal immigrants that granted amnesty to illegal immigrants who could prove were in the country for more than six years.  Reagan didn't want to separate children (who wouldn't qualify for amnesty) from parents so he and Bush (41) modified the mess Congress created.

The democrats are interpreting what was done by Reagan and Bush 41 and trying to equate it to Obama's open amnesty plan, apples and oranges.

Just saying that Reagan was not as conservative as extremists make him out to be... Bush also had a fair immigration plan, and the House defeated a bipartisan plan recently -- the extremists eat their own.

I do not admire or appreciate people or politicians whose motto is "my way or the highway" and that is what you have with the 60 or so extremists holding up any good legislation to get this country kicking forward. They need to be booted out so the economy can be more vigorous and we can solve problems, not let them fester and galvanize people and stagnate us. JMHO.

Edited November 27, 2015 by Mr. Desmond

[turtleback 734]

1 hour ago, Mr. Desmond said:

Just saying that Reagan was not as conservative as extremists make him out to be... Bush also had a fair immigration plan, and the House defeated a bipartisan plan recently -- the extremists eat their own.

I do not admire or appreciate people or politicians whose motto is "my way or the highway" and that is what you have with the 60 or so extremists holding up any good legislation to get this country kicking forward. They need to be booted out so the economy can be more vigorous and we can solve problems, not let them fester and galvanize people and stagnate us. JMHO.

I dunno, the only one I see saying my way or the highway (and then unilaterally implementing his agenda through executive orders) is the President.