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collapse's Downward Spiral (Limited Thread)


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3 minutes ago, collapse said:

grip.JPG

Nicklaus: no.
Watson: no.
Hogan: "golf begins with a good grip."

That's all you've got. Sorry, but no - this does not rise to meet the challenge of citing those three men saying that the grip is the most important part of the golf swing, nor does it cite them as saying improving someone's grip will have an appreciable impact on their scores or handicap.

I don't even know who wrote the other stuff, but it wasn't Ben Hogan.


For documentation purposes, my OP on this from the other thread where @collapse took things wildly off-topic:

2 hours ago, iacas said:

Please cite references from each where they say that a golfer will lower his handicap an appreciable amount just by changing their grip.

A good grip is important - you'll get no argument from anyone here on that - but it's nowhere near as important as you keep wanting it to be. It's several orders of magnitude less important. It's easy to fix, and results in very little changes to the overall motion and scoring capability of a golfer.

For the final time (because if I have to type it again, I'm just going to jump you straight to 50 warning points and you'll permanently be banned for trolling, given your now nearly 300-post history of ignoring and failing to respond to the many hundreds of posts and points and questions raised against your opinions), you could put me in a weak, palmy, reverse overlap grip and take two strokes a side and I'd still beat you. And I don't get a chance to play all that often.

Remember, you told a 20 handicapper that the time to work on the "big moves" was over - that it was just about the "small stuff" from there on out.

You can use this thread, @collapse, to attempt to cite your sources in ways that meet the requirements. Until then, this is relevant:

38 minutes ago, iacas said:

I'm going to make this very easy on you: cite your sources.

Cite the sources for each of them saying that the grip is so important, it will single-handedly and dramatically improve a player's scores.

Until you do so, none of your posts will be confirmed.

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  • Administrator

Hogan: no.
Nicklaus: "The foundation of the golf swing is the grip." He does not talk about how it is the most important, he simply says it's one of the first things. He also says it doesn't make a lot of difference what kind of grip you use. He goes on to say that he grips it in the palm, which almost nobody teaches and which contradicts Hogan's advice. He makes no mention of how the grip will make a sizable change to someone's scores.
Watson: no.

in a lot of ways this video does more to argue against what you've been saying than FOR it.

So, you've yet to cite any sources that do as requested: talk about how the grip is the most important thing (you don't seem to understand that "fundamental" or "foundation" is not the same as "most important"), nor how improving a 20-handicapper's grip (or 24) is going to dramatically improve his scoring, ballstriking, etc.

Once again, you could put Jack Nicklaus in his heyday in ANY grip you wanted and he'd totally kick your ass on the golf course even if you got to throw the ball once per hole for free.

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I have only said the the grip is the important thing and related it to the natural hang of the hands.Everything else is what you have added yourself.

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1 minute ago, collapse said:

I have only said the the grip is the important thing and related it to the natural hang of the hands.Everything else is what you have added yourself.

That is categorically incorrect.

You have stated time and time again that the grip is the most important thing in the golf swing. Neither of your citations so far even say that.

You have also said to 20-handicappers that all of the "big move" things must be fine and they need to focus on "small move" type things, or "small muscle" type things; i.e. the grip.

The grip is nowhere near as important as you make it out to be.

Meanwhile, back on the farm, you post nonsense about reverse pivots. Your act is wearing incredibly thin. You refuse - constantly - to respond to posts and questions and points raised against you, in all manner of threads. So you're being held accountable to the one thing you hold most dear: the importance of the grip, and the many, many comments about it that you've made.

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1 hour ago, iacas said:

In a lot of ways this video does more to argue against what you've been saying than FOR it.

Ha, yeah I was thinking the same thing when I watched it.

1 hour ago, iacas said:

Once again, you could put Jack Nicklaus in his heyday in ANY grip you wanted and he'd totally kick your ass on the golf course even if you got to throw the ball once per hole for free.

@collapse, you need to finally come to terms with this.

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  • Administrator
8 minutes ago, collapse said:

I have come to terms with it.So have you, so all is good.

All is not good.

Two ways your content moderation limitations are lifted:

  • You do what was asked of you in this thread.
  • You make a sincere post that addresses the topic at hand (no pun intended) and change your behavior here on the site.

I'm not holding my breath for either one.

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1 minute ago, iacas said:

All is not good.

Two ways your content moderation limitations are lifted:

  • You do what was asked of you in this thread.
  • You make a sincere post that addresses the topic at hand (no pun intended) and change your behavior here on the site.

I'm not holding my breath for either one.

I have fulfilled the request to provide evidence of  the Jack and Hogan grip position.There is nothing more to be said.The lifting of the limitations is now your side of the deal to fulfill.

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Just now, collapse said:

I have fulfilled the request to provide evidence of  the Jack and Hogan grip position.There is nothing more to be said.The lifting of the limitations is now your side of the deal to fulfill.

You absolutely have not done that.

Look, one more stupid post from you and I'm just banning you through the end of the year. You're not worth this much time.

And, to give you a fighting chance, I'm letting the first three other moderators make the call on what qualifies as "stupid." Because I'm done wasting my time on you.

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2 hours ago, collapse said:

Jack starting at the 1:40 mark..

I thought what Nicklaus said about the grip to be contradictory. He says it's the foundation and there's a proper way to do it and it's a weaker grip but then says that overlapping, interlocking or baseball makes no difference. And then he cites his grip helps him prevent hooks, which to me sounds like he's adapting his grip to his swing - the big motion, which makes the grip incidental and the big moves more important.

Didn't Hogan switch from a strong grip to a weak grip? If there is one fundamentally correct grip, then why did he switch grips?

As for pros giving advice - I just have seen too many examples of them saying do this, but their actual sawing they do something different. The proof is there to see in video and photos. They know their swing, they don't know how to fix all sorts of different swings. 

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1 hour ago, collapse said:

I have fulfilled the request to provide evidence of  the Jack and Hogan grip position.There is nothing more to be said.The lifting of the limitations is now your side of the deal to fulfill.

Jack and Hogan gripped the club differently. So.....what's your point again? And I'd appreciate your thoughts on what Iacas said earlier in regards to how important the grip is to a good swing:

If Iacas took a strong or weak grip, overlapped or interlocked, he'd school you on the golf course....hell he'd beat me too.

1. Do you agree he'd beat you? If so, why would he be able to?

"Foundation" and "Fundamental" are really just rhetorical terms regarding the grip. We have to hold the golf club to use it and we only hold it with our hands. But surely you can understand that something having so many different variations yet producing solid results with any of these variations can hardly be "most important."

 

 

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7 hours ago, Vinsk said:

Jack and Hogan gripped the club differently. So.....what's your point again? And I'd appreciate your thoughts on what Iacas said earlier in regards to how important the grip is to a good swing:

If Iacas took a strong or weak grip, overlapped or interlocked, he'd school you on the golf course....hell he'd beat me too.

1. Do you agree he'd beat you? If so, why would he be able to?

"Foundation" and "Fundamental" are really just rhetorical terms regarding the grip. We have to hold the golf club to use it and we only hold it with our hands. But surely you can understand that something having so many different variations yet producing solid results with any of these variations can hardly be "most important."

 

 

My point revolves around the natural hang of the arms (specifically lead arm) and how the correct grip needs to be adapted to that.I posted the expressed opinions of Jack and Hogan on the importance of the grip.I also previously posted photos of the natural arm position and the angle it takes on  with Justin Rose holding a club in a relaxed posture .Iacas countered with a photo of Adam Scott holding a club in a seemingly contradictory way.The fact is,that Iacas photo came from an AS video in which Adam is notably taking his lead hand grip in what was almost his trademark manner yet never mentioned but for once on a PGA tour broadcast 2 or 3 years after he had begun doing it.I don't know how my point can be much clearer from what I have posted. 

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2 hours ago, Mjrowe1 said:

After a good weeks short game practice I went out and had 37 stableford points, 1 better than my handicap, new GA 12.9. Anyone living in Melbourne knows that today was one of the windiest days of the year and ball striking was difficult. Pretty happy with the result.

 

Lessons learned today was, swing it easy when the conditions are like that, the short game and putter aspect of the game are more important than any gives credit for. 

 

5 am back on the grind at the gym working on seperation.

The importance of putting and short game are well recognized.Yet keep in mind, Sam Snead said if he had it to do all over again,he would work on the driver and 100yd in game.The old adage was Drive for show putt for dough.The new adage is ,drive for dough,putt for more dough.

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Here's Hogan saying what he thinks is the most important part of the swing. It's not the grip.

Here's Gary Player saying what he thinks is the single most important thing in the golf swing. Not the grip.

 

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2 hours ago, collapse said:

My point revolves around the natural hang of the arms (specifically lead arm) and how the correct grip needs to be adapted to that.I posted the expressed opinions of Jack and Hogan on the importance of the grip.I also previously posted photos of the natural arm position and the angle it takes on  with Justin Rose holding a club in a relaxed posture .Iacas countered with a photo of Adam Scott holding a club in a seemingly contradictory way.The fact is,that Iacas photo came from an AS video in which Adam is notably taking his lead hand grip in what was almost his trademark manner yet never mentioned but for once on a PGA tour broadcast 2 or 3 years after he had begun doing it.I don't know how my point can be much clearer from what I have posted. 

You have no point other than parroting the same troll statements over and over and messing with people's My Swing thread. I sincerely doubt your HC is 8.3 as well. Otherwise you would know.

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  • iacas changed the title to collapse's Downward Spiral (Limited Thread)
Note: This thread is 2050 days old. We appreciate that you found this thread instead of starting a new one, but if you plan to post here please make sure it's still relevant. If not, please start a new topic. Thank you!

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