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iacas

GAME GOLF Strokes Gained Updates!

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This was pointed out in the other thread, but I'd like to create this new thread here to keep track of the updates to GAME GOLF's Strokes Gained stats.

As many know, TST has an "Advisory Panel" which aims to do a few things, but high on that list is to increase the communication between real-world golfers, stats geeks like myself and @RandallT, and GAME GOLF for the betterment of the GG platform and, ultimately, for more enjoyment from golfers.

https://gamegolf.desk.com/customer/en/portal/articles/2198476

Quote

More Features Coming Soon!
The goal of the first iteration is to aggregate all our users' data and display it in the most concise way possible for everyone to understand. That said, we plan to continue to expand the feature to include more for our users to assist their improvement. If you have a suggestions, please post it (or vote for an existing one) in the following user forum post: http://myexperience.gamegolf.com/forums/236342-feature-requests/suggestions/10706070-strokes-gained-overview-feature-improvements

Within the last week or so, GAME has rolled out two improvements to their Strokes Gained portion of the site.

Change #1: Comparisons to More than Scratch Golfers

Here's a look at my new Strokes Gained insights page:

5699317d16011_ScreenShot2016-01-15at12.4

In that screenshot I've compared myself to a 10 handicap.

(Yes, they've still got the negative sign backward… strokes gained in this case should be positive. We're working on them to change that… ;-) No promises though! :-D).

This is great news if you're a 15 handicapper wanting to see where you need to improve to get down to a 10 - just compare yourself to a 10. Or compare yourself to a typical 15 handicapper to see if you have any glaring weaknesses (or strengths!).

Change #2: Strokes Gained for Specific Rounds

This was mentioned above by @toursauce, and you might miss it the first time through (as I did), but it's right there in the top-right-hand corner:

5699329842d58_ScreenShot2016-01-15at12.5

Choose a few rounds if you want to limit a round with bad weather, a round where you were spraying your driver everywhere, or maybe even a round where you were super-hot with the putter. All of those could throw off your Strokes Gained average.

I selected one round where I shot 75 and noted that my putting, normally a strength, was actually a weakness on that day. I gained 0.78, 0.49, and 0.34 strokes with the other three categories, but lost 1.57 putting. That day I hit 61% GIR but had 1.72 putts per hole.

http://www.gamegolf.com/player/iacas/round/642797

I'm not 100% sold on my putter costing me there (I had one hole where I played two shortish shots in a row, for example, and I made a few six- and seven-foot putts), but you (and I) shouldn't really look at Strokes Gained in only one round for too much meaning, anyway.


So, two cool new additions. Go check 'em out!

If you don't have a GAME GOLF unit, what are you waiting for! Yes, GAME GOLF is one of the 2016 TST sponsors, but we've partnered with them because we love what they're doing, and think this is the best system going. It's only getting better, too, and with the TST Advisory Board, will continue to do so.

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So can you compare to a tour pro, versus comparing to a specific handicap? Or would that just essentially be you comparing to a +5 handicap or something like that?

I'm just curious if there are comparison points above the level of a scratch golfer.

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4 hours ago, iacas said:

I selected one round where I shot 75 and noted that my putting, normally a strength, was actually a weakness on that day. I gained 0.78, 0.49, and 0.34 strokes with the other three categories, but lost 1.57 putting. That day I hit 61% GIR but had 1.72 putts per hole.

I'm not 100% sold on my putter costing me there (I had one hole where I played two shortish shots in a row, for example, and I made a few six- and seven-foot putts), but you (and I) shouldn't really look at Strokes Gained in only one round for too much meaning, anyway.

Was the course rating around 75? You just about broke even with the baseline so assuming the SG comparison was to scratch? Or does GG have average score of 75 for scratch on a CR ~ 72? If the latter, that would strike me as a bit high. If that was a multi-round average 1.72 putts per hole would be pretty consistent with an average score of ~ 75-76 and the 61% GIR ~ correlated with an average score of 72.

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I think the comparison to different handicap levels is really cool and very useful.  It does make me wonder though whether the further you get from pro level the wider the variations in ways to attain that level.

So maybe for the pros they all have pretty much the same game and it comes down to how well they execute their shots on a given day under pressure.  So the theoretical average pro is actually close to where a lot of the pros are in real life.  

For a 10 handicap though you might be able to achieve that level with a wide variety of playing styles - wild drives but a magic short game, short hitter but great at putting.  When you average all that out you might get a theoretical 10 handicap player that very few real players actually play like.  It might be even better if you could somehow filter the results that match your style, like 'I have a strong game off the tee so can you compare me against the subset of 10 handicaps that also have a good driving game to show me how much I need to improve in the other areas'.  

In any case it is a good step forward and I'll definitely be using it.

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I think it's a great platform for players to track key elements for areas to improve.

22 hours ago, iacas said:

Change #2: Strokes Gained for Specific Rounds

Would the ability to compare SG over a selected time period (Dec vs Jan or Nov vs Jan) be an option for user be beneficial?

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23 hours ago, iacas said:

 

If you don't have a GAME GOLF unit, what are you waiting for! Yes, GAME GOLF is one of the 2016 TST sponsors, but we've partnered with them because we love what they're doing, and think this is the best system going. It's only getting better, too, and with the TST Advisory Board, will continue to do so.

Well, I thought a new hybrid, plus getting a 4-hybrid, was going to be my first golf purchase of 2016, but now I think it's going to be a GAME GOLF system.  

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11 minutes ago, Shindig said:

I think it's going to be a GAME GOLF system

You'll enjoy using GG, I suggest buying the "New Live" device. I think I read somewhere it was available to loyal customers at a significant discount. Contact GG and inquire.

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5 hours ago, ZappyAd said:

I think the comparison to different handicap levels is really cool and very useful.  It does make me wonder though whether the further you get from pro level the wider the variations in ways to attain that level.

So maybe for the pros they all have pretty much the same game and it comes down to how well they execute their shots on a given day under pressure.  So the theoretical average pro is actually close to where a lot of the pros are in real life.  

For a 10 handicap though you might be able to achieve that level with a wide variety of playing styles - wild drives but a magic short game, short hitter but great at putting.  When you average all that out you might get a theoretical 10 handicap player that very few real players actually play like.  It might be even better if you could somehow filter the results that match your style, like 'I have a strong game off the tee so can you compare me against the subset of 10 handicaps that also have a good driving game to show me how much I need to improve in the other areas'.  

In any case it is a good step forward and I'll definitely be using it.

Kind of makes sense.

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On ‎1‎/‎15‎/‎2016 at 0:00 PM, iacas said:

Change #1: Comparisons to More than Scratch Golfers

I feel much better now, thought my game was going down the tubes........

strokes-gained.thumb.png.9bd9c236d99419e

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My understanding is that Game Golf data is all collected automatically by GPS, which brings two huge problems to mind when talking about "strokes gained" statistics. 1) GPS cannot render accurate putting distances, so strokes gained putting stats would be virtually useless; 2) GPS cannot accurately determine the lie-type classifications that are essential to Broadie's calculations. So how does Game Golf overcome these, or does it? Is it really a distance-based stat similar to strokes gained that does not take lie types into account?

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7 minutes ago, kickingwater said:

1) GPS cannot render accurate putting distances

What makes you say that? GPS, depending on what is used, can track positions to within feet.

You can also manually drag the shots into position when you review your round on the computer. This ensures all the distances are precisely correct.

8 minutes ago, kickingwater said:

2) GPS cannot accurately determine the lie-type classifications that are essential to Broadie's calculations. So how does Game Golf overcome these, or does it? Is it really a distance-based stat similar to strokes gained that does not take lie types into account?

This I do not know the answer to, but I'd imagine there's someone who does know the proper answers.

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Pretzel,

The GPS available to civilians has a variance of accuracy of up to 4 or 5 yards.  This can't account for distances measured in feet. So are you saying GG has a manual override to make putting distances accurate? Do you have to go back and review your round on a computer after your round to do this?

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15 minutes ago, kickingwater said:

Pretzel,

The GPS available to civilians has a variance of accuracy of up to 4 or 5 yards.  This can't account for distances measured in feet. So are you saying GG has a manual override to make putting distances accurate? Do you have to go back and review your round on a computer after your round to do this?

When you upload the round to your computer, it asks you to look over it to make sure the pin placement/shots are all correct. This lets you move shots, as well as add or remove any shots that were mis-tagged to ensure your round is accurate.

The primary reason for having you look it over is that the unit does not know the pin locations each day. It also gives you the opportunity to correct any errors that may occur due to the nature of GPS. 

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Wobbly as the GG SG stats are it's still useful especially when combined with the other GG insights. I don't mind the editing and my rounds are very close to what actually occurred give or take a few feet of putts. I don't measure exact so I move putting tags to the nearest foot or so. For most there isn't much to learn they didn't already know, amateurs are poor ball strikers. I use it more as a strategy tool.

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Sorry if this has been covered, but did they change the way putt distance works?  I used to enter my putt distances after each round and it was always distance to the hole.  I stopped doing that when I got the Live version because I stopped reviewing everything on a computer.  But today, I wanted to enter putt distances and it seems to give me the distance from putt 1 to putt 2 rather than to the hole.

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Note: This thread is 1383 days old. We appreciate that you found this thread instead of starting a new one, but if you plan to post here please make sure it's still relevant. If not, please start a new topic. Thank you!

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