AJGA Rules Suck

[Pretzel]

4 minutes ago, dak4n6 said:

What the heck is a 'helicopter parent'?

The person who is prone to over-advising their player to the point of frustrating them more than helping them. It's very common in competitive tournaments, especially in the slightly younger age divisions (10-14 or so) at least in the tournaments I play.

[iacas]

19 minutes ago, dak4n6 said:

What the heck is a 'helicopter parent'?

…

Personally, I have never seen or experienced a 'helicopter parent', and we have played in casual and money rounds with many other parent/kid teams.

Seriously?

Watch "The Short Game" on Netflix. Or attend a USKG event or something.

They're all over. They have to "help" their kid do everything.

[dak4n6]

8 minutes ago, iacas said:

Seriously?

Watch "The Short Game" on Netflix. Or attend a USKG event or something.

They're all over. They have to "help" their kid do everything.

Glad I have never encountered them. Actually, when our daughter started out, we had to play a round in the midst or behind a USKG tournament sponsored by our course, and it was truly ridiculous. We were glad that we got a heads up to not join that organization. IMO, it's just a for profit scheme. The JGA is much more low profile, run more along the lines of HS tournaments.

[vangator]

My kids are golfers, but they played basketball and volleyball.  They were tall, I'm not.

Some of the parents at those games should be shot.  Hadn't heard the term "helicopter Parents", but I know what you mean.  Let the damn coaches do the coaching!

[wolfpackguy]

The term "helicopter parents" goes far beyond golf and sports in general for that matter.  It's a term used in pop culture to describe the trend of most parents in today's society being over protective of their kids.  These parents assume that every stranger is a child molester and that their 10 year old cannot go to a public bathroom alone in fear of them being assaulted. Their children are only allowed to play with other kids at scheduled "play dates" in which there is always adult supervision.  If anything is "touched" in which they deem as having germs, mom is quick and at the ready with the bottle of hand sanitizer, less their precious child catch leprosy and die.  The polar opposite term for "helicopter parents" is "free-range parents". 

[turtleback]

A helicopter parent is one who hovers over everything in their kids life to insure they are successful.  This includes intrusive participation/coaching in sports, inappropriate attempts to influence the students' teachers, and even cases of parents attempting to intervene with employers.

In my own personal definition regarding sports involvement, anything more than being a spectator raises serious helicopter concerns.  ESPECIALLY if the parent has no professional qualifications.  I therefore exempt Deacon Palmer and Davis Love 2nd, among others.

Earl Woods was a classic helicopter parent, IMO.

[DaveP043]

On 1/28/2016 at 9:26 PM, dak4n6 said:

In our local JGA tournaments, players don't have caddies. After playing for only 4 years, at the age of 15, my stepdaugter could use some input during play. Do they want to drive young players away from golf because of frustration? They're doing a good job.

This is the post that started the discussion of "helicopter parenting."  In my humble opinion, if a child's frustration from tournament golf is enough to drive them away from golf in general, I'd suggest that the child isn't ready for tournament golf.

[iacas]

14 hours ago, dak4n6 said:

Glad I have never encountered them. Actually, when our daughter started out, we had to play a round in the midst or behind a USKG tournament sponsored by our course, and it was truly ridiculous. We were glad that we got a heads up to not join that organization. IMO, it's just a for profit scheme. The JGA is much more low profile, run more along the lines of HS tournaments.

It's not a "just for profit scheme." The USKG events my daughter has played in (you also don't really "join the organization") have been reasonably well priced and well run. They get nice trophies and place decent golf courses. I considered running a USKG tour here in the Erie area, but just don't have the time.

The tournament director makes some money, as does USKG the group, but… I looked at how much, and let's just say you'd make more working at McDonald's for the time you've gotta put in.

Helicopter parenting is not specific to USKG at all.

[SavvySwede]

2 hours ago, turtleback said:

A helicopter parent is one who hovers over everything in their kids life to insure they are successful.  This includes intrusive participation/coaching in sports, inappropriate attempts to influence the students' teachers, and even cases of parents attempting to intervene with employers.

In my own personal definition regarding sports involvement, anything more than being a spectator raises serious helicopter concerns.  ESPECIALLY if the parent has no professional qualifications.  I therefore exempt Deacon Palmer and Davis Love 2nd, among others.

Earl Woods was a classic helicopter parent, IMO.

I wouldn't say that, Tiger's parents never made or told him to practice. Not getting to practice or play was his punishment for misbehavior.

[dak4n6]

6 hours ago, DaveP043 said:

This is the post that started the discussion of "helicopter parenting."  In my humble opinion, if a child's frustration from tournament golf is enough to drive them away from golf in general, I'd suggest that the child isn't ready for tournament golf.

But they might, just might, get up to tournament golf if you give them a chance at the beginning. My daughter generally strikes the ball well (esp her driver - she wows adults all the time), however, this past year was her first playing individual tournaments, and a few times she shot scores that were very high for her and came off the course saying 'I suck'. I guess the pressure got to her. So she should just quit, and forego the hopes of at least a partial scholarship? 

[Pretzel]

19 minutes ago, dak4n6 said:

But they might, just might, get up to tournament golf if you give them a chance at the beginning. My daughter generally strikes the ball well (esp her driver - she wows adults all the time), however, this past year was her first playing individual tournaments, and a few times she shot scores that were very high for her and came off the course saying 'I suck'. I guess the pressure got to her. So she should just quit, and forego the hopes of at least a partial scholarship? 

No, but if she is so discouraged by it perhaps golf is not what she enjoys the most? While any girl who can break 85 is pretty much guaranteed a golf scholarship, it's not worth it if she doesn't enjoy it. I shot some really awful scores too at first, but it always motivated me to get better and it would've only been uglier if I had parents trying to tell me how to fix it during those poor rounds.

I'm just saying that having a parent there coaching oftentimes increases the pressure and leaves everyone unhappy after a poor round, much more so than if the player was without a parent coach. Take it from someone who has seen it happen many, many times before.

[natureboy]

On 1/28/2016 at 10:05 AM, DaveP043 said:

I don't claim to know much about junior golf, but this seems odd to me.  Why would a young golfer become frustrated when they're required to make up their own minds about golf decisions?  It seems to me that evaluating the situations, making choices, sometimes wrong ones, and learning from them, is a big part of the learning process, both in golf and in life.  And don't most teenagers WANT to make their own choices, to be more independent from their parents?  Again, this is just my (relatively uninformed) opinion.

They don't want that responsibility if it means they will be subjected to deep cross examination and dressing down for 'failing to perform' based on their choice. If keeping a 'stage/golf' parent reasonably happy while still doing something you enjoy is important to you as a teen (at least on some level), I expect it's easier to just go with the flow most times.

On 1/26/2016 at 4:02 PM, Pretzel said:

Today I found out two things:

1) I have been granted membership in the AJGA due to my tournament performance last year, with two top 3's in big tournaments and every other finish being a top 10 besides one.

2) You lose eligibility to compete in AJGA tournaments as soon as your start college

So now I am an AJGA member who can't actually play in their tournaments, for the next two years. I understand that the AJGA is meant for people who want to prepare for college golf and impress coaches, but excluding college students is kind of dumb. I want to prepare for college golf and impress the coach at my current school, but I can't play in AJGA tournaments (where most coaches actually look) because of their eligibility rules.

Do they have an eligibility appeals process or committee?

[dak4n6]

I am taken aback with all the anecdotal reports of over the top golf parents. My stepdaughter and I have always had a great on course relationship. She is always receptive and responsive and sometimes asks for my advice. It is actually over everyday life that we sometimes clash.

Oh well, I was just wondering what the big deal is about caddying, and now I know. Thanks for all your replies.

BTW pretzel, she averages low 90s on mid-level courses. She won the women's club champ at a course where she is an associate member with a blistering 84 (yes I caddied for her), so we have our fingers crossed...

[Fourputt]

54 minutes ago, dak4n6 said:

But they might, just might, get up to tournament golf if you give them a chance at the beginning. My daughter generally strikes the ball well (esp her driver - she wows adults all the time), however, this past year was her first playing individual tournaments, and a few times she shot scores that were very high for her and came off the course saying 'I suck'. I guess the pressure got to her. So she should just quit, and forego the hopes of at least a partial scholarship? 

No, you teach her that sometimes you play well and sometimes you suck.  That's golf and that's life.  You take the bad with the good and stay on an even keel.  You can commiserate with her after the round and help her get back up, but carrying her through the round is never going to teach her to handle adversity well.  The golfer who ultimately can't handle adversity had best just give it up, because there is always going be at least a measure of it from time to time.

[natureboy]

On 1/31/2016 at 7:16 AM, GolfLug said:

So the general consensus of all the experienced folks here is that most parents are 'helicopter' parents and when it comes to tournaments they are inexplicably incapable of using common sense, or modulating their advise to just a caddy's level (not just a few memorable ones like @Pretzel mentioned, but most or even all of them), completely disregard the basic tenants of the game like proper pace of play, use their great power over their children and inevitably start coaching and holding up play on the 5th hole to the chagrin and annoyance of everybody else involved. And the only way the parents know how to be around their children regardless of whether they are in a tournament or on a range is to do all the thinking and decision making FOR them they learn no self reliance creating soft citizens with no decision making skills. Got it. Man, these parents!! Get them outta here..!

So when it comes to tournaments, drop them off at parking lot in the morning and pick them up at 4 pm. Will do.

That interpretation is a bit hyperbolic.

I think people are responding to why that 30' rule is in effect. Part of golf is the self-reliance with the availability of discussing options or perspective with an 'advisor' (when available). Clearly some 'bad apple' parents have gone over the line and ruined it for those able to strike a more reasonable balance. I would think that an engaged parent who wants to help could quietly observe a round from 'the ropes' and make some valuable insights post-round when they are more likely to be appreciated anyway.

On 1/31/2016 at 8:21 PM, SavvySwede said:

You're really going to deny there is a different dynamic of power between these two relationships? A caddy will always be a subordinate. The parent is in charge even if their child is rebellious and doesn't may not want to believe it.

It's like the difference between your boss saying, "We need to buy stock in X".,, and having your financial adviser saying, "I recommend an investment in X".

Edited February 3, 2016 by natureboy

[dak4n6]

2 minutes ago, Fourputt said:

No, you teach her that sometimes you play well and sometimes you suck.  That's golf and that's life.  You take the bad with the good and stay on an even keel.  You can commiserate with her after the round and help her get back up, but carrying her through the round is never going to teach her to handle adversity well.  The golfer who ultimately can't handle adversity had best just give it up, because there is always going be at least a measure of it from time to time.

Yes yes, this is obvious stuff (but thanks for the input). I'm just saying after only 4 years of playing, she can still use some reminders in this difficult game. How well did you play after 4 years?

When you start teaching a kid how to ride a bike, do you just throw them on and tell them to go for it, knowing that falling will build character and teach them to not do that, or do you run along holding the seat for the first bunch of times?

[David in FL]

1 hour ago, dak4n6 said:

Yes yes, this is obvious stuff (but thanks for the input). I'm just saying after only 4 years of playing, she can still use some reminders in this difficult game. 

After almost 50 years of playing this game, I can still use some reminders...

Such is this maddening game.

[dak4n6]

2 minutes ago, David in FL said:

After almost 50 years of playing this game, I can still use some reminders...

Such is this maddening game.

Accelerate through the ball with good tempo no matter what kind of shot you have.

That'll be $50. You're welcome

(Actually I have to remind her that all the time with chips and putts)