Often pushing drives badly, rarely hooking, never slicing - advice needed

[Chas]

The last six months or so I seem to have developed a nasty push with my driver, often into deep rough or even the adjacent fairway. Just horrible. My distance is pretty much where I want it to be given my physical condition and general joint stiffness at the moment (250-280, depending), but my accuracy - ugh! I never slice, but occasionally produce a duck hook if I didn't make the big push. Some rounds about 1 of 3 drives actually stay on the fairway - it's killing my game. I've searched the forum on the subject of pushes but haven't come up with analysis that really does it for me.

I'm certain that at the top I'm shifting to an inside-to-outside swing plane. Heck, I can see it easily if I just make practice swings and watch the path of the clubhead going through the contact zone. If you stand in the sun with just the right angle of light you can easily see the clubhead path - not a pretty sight sometimes. And I never see the opposite, out-to-in pull type of swing, with driver at least. The clubface is reasonably square, hence the mostly straight hits - not much good to me when I'm off by 10 or more degrees. I mean if you're gonna push like that, better you put a nice draw on the ball as well ..... . But no, that's not what I'm looking for. I need to cure that blasted push . The question is, how?

One thing I think I'm doing is letting the V in the arms break down at the top, i.e. still moving my arms further back when I'm loaded up and my shoulders are fully turned. I suppose you could call this "overswinging", i.e. reaching for that extra bit of distance that just kills you. When I really work to prevent this happening (very difficult for some reason), I feel much more in control in the transition and seem to lose the big pushes. It seems to help when I also keep my left hand fully extended from my shoulder all the way up and down. Again, a greater feeling of cohesion in the arms/upper body and much more confidence. The stupid thing is that my drive distance doesn't suffer noticeably when I don't over-reach at the top, but it's very hard to convince my subconscious NOT to do this for some reason.

Any ideas, folks? Clever drills, tips, you-name-it ...... Has anything like this happened to you? Missing more than half of the fairways to the right in a big way with driver is discouraging, the pressure on the rest of my game is just ruinous and it takes a lot of the pleasure away even though the rest of my game has been making decent progress.

[geezer]

By the sounds of it, you've already got the problem sorted. Don't 'overswing' as you put it.

I know you said this is difficult. But thats what learning the game of golf is all about, training your body to subconsiously move into a pre-determined sequence of positions.

You need to work on the pre-determined bit. You may have been overswinging for a while, so you need to train your body out of that habit.

Practice makes permanent, practice makes permanent, practice makes permanent.

[dbornack]

Just a quick note:

- Sounds like a bit steep on the downswing
- Your body is in front of the ball at impact - Try to keep your Axis even, or behind the ball until impact.

[907golfer12]

I had this exact same problem, nd at my leson yesterday my instructor told me that I was lining up with my shoulders a bit open. He had me bring my right shoulder back and then I stopped hitting a usual push drive. So check your shoulders, hope this helps.

[Ben]

Just a quick note:

I like that.

To elaborate on the second part a little. Lateral sway. Your left side (think your hip) is moving to the left and moving past the ball, as opposed to turning to the left and staying behind the ball.

[Chas]

Thanks for the pointers, which all seem to make sense. Unfortunately I've been playing long enough that it isn't going to be easy to get rid of the problem. It feels so different to "stay behind the ball" like I know I need to do. To my mind it feels like I'm not going to make it into the proper position in time for a solid hit - which isn't true of course. I also subconsciously fear the big hook, which does indeed result if I actually do stay too far back coming down .....

O well, thanks for the encouragement. It helps. I did have a good session chipping into the practice green a few days ago. That's one area I seem to be making steady progress in, at least.

[Platnumn]

I agree with everyone else, slow your arms down, focus on the contact point. Also dont swing as much inside out?

[osean79]

Chas, I have the same exact problem as you do. The 10-15 degree push to the right going 250-270 yds, ending up in the woods or the deep rough having to punch out instead of making a nice easy 2nd shot on to the green =P. I have figured out a way to reduce the push to a safer 5 degrees by gripping the right hand in a strong grip. Meaning, it'd see 3 knuckle of the right hand and the thumb positioned on the left side of the club at address. One more thing i do is to focus intently on the ball on the down swing and make sure to contact through the ball and keep looking down at that spot for abit after impact. Whenever I look up too quickly after impact, i find a big push/slice that leaves me on the other fairway, (i think that's from my body lurching up and sliding as I look up too early). The change in grip helped me tone down the big push, how is your grip set up??

[mtrevors]

Honestly, since you "know" what's wrong I think the best thing for you to do is see a sports shrink. Since you need help unlearning and then learning it correctly. Just think of it as a mental lesson

[Chas]

One more thing i do is to focus intently on the ball on the down swing and make sure to contact through the ball and keep looking down at that spot for abit after impact. Whenever I look up too quickly after impact, i find a big push/slice that leaves me on the other fairway, (i think that's from my body lurching up and sliding as I look up too early). The change in grip helped me tone down the big push, how is your grip set up??

Both good suggestions, although I wouldn't want to strengthen the grip as a "cure" for some other major ill. You know, like aiming 30 deg left to compensate for a big slice - we've all seen it done. But maybe my grip is indeed a bit weak for my driver action, I'll try adding a right knuckle or so and see.

Keeping my head down through the ball is something I'll consider also. Maybe I don't do this as well for driver as for other clubs, out of anxiety as to result perhaps. One of those vicious cycles that can easily happen in golf. The golf psych idea is not bad either, but I'm not sure I've got the time to invest in it. Certainly psychology has a lot to do with it - we are talking GOLF after all, grrrrrrr Thanks again chaps. All good ideas to work on.

[albatroz]

Invest in hiring a good Golf Pro to study what seems to be a hindrance in your golf swing . With the tech they have at their hands they can pin point immediately the problem and give you a sure solution on how to cure what ever ailes you . Be sure that these are accredited Pros and have tons of good feedback from past pupils . Take TIGER and PHIL as examples . They too needed someone to give them sound advise .

[Leek]

The last six months or so I seem to have developed a nasty push with my driver, often into deep rough or even the adjacent fairway. Just horrible. My distance is pretty much where I want it to be given my physical condition and general joint stiffness at the moment (250-280, depending), but my accuracy - ugh! I never slice, but occasionally produce a duck hook if I didn't make the big push. Some rounds about 1 of 3 drives actually stay on the fairway - it's killing my game. I've searched the forum on the subject of pushes but haven't come up with analysis that really does it for me.

OK, if you are hitting a big push, your swing is coming from the inside, and you clubface is square to that path. It's really a hook swing without the flip.

The first thing to do is fix the path.

[hippsalan]

Chas,

Pushing and slicing are sometimes caused by your body outracing your arms on the downswing. Try this next time you go to the range: At address, assuming you're a righty, feel that your upper left arm is connected to your outer left pec (chest) and then turn your body back and through while feeling this connection with your upper left side. Your swing will feel shorter and tighter so start with a short iron and make 3/4 swings. When you get your arms and body swinging together correctly you will feel effortless power and more consistent drives and irons. Let me know if that works.

If you would like more info on a simple swing I'm teaching my students right now visit http://golfswingconnection.com

Alan Hipps

[ks8829]

I had the same problem last week, I was pushing my driver near the end of the round.

I realize that I was getting lazy and not making a complete turn on my back swing thus when I was swing forward on impact my club head was delayed and not returning to the ball.

The other reason I might push the ball is if I am trying different arm position farther from the ball and my timming is off. I will remember to bring my arm in more and help bring the timming of my swing together with my arms and body.

Good luck, I am sure you will figure it out soon.

[supercow]

Other thing you could try is to reduce your spinal tilt away from the target and attempting to reduce the amount of head movement backward on the downswing. In both cases, both moves can increase launch angle and inside out swing path but sometimes this can be taken to extremes which can lead to a push.

[Chas]

More good advice from all, thanks with that. Alan, I'm sure that's part of it. Usually when I really push one big, I notice that I've made too fast of a return move with my body, so my arms lag behind and are not in synch. I'm working on it.

Also I read in this month's Golf Digest the piece about pushing that talks about making sure that your left arm (for a right hander) turns counter-clockwise properly coming down. The dimple on the inside of your left elbow (i.e. not the pointy side that you poke people with ) should be pointing slightly in the forward direction (i.e. slightly towards the target) in the contact zone. This means that your wrist is likely to be somewhat pronated as well, all of which should help to prevent the push and/or slice. Many good golfers really do this in spades, it's obvious when you look for it. Anyway, I'm going to try it on the range next time.

[Chas]

I like that.

Ben,

I played Torrey Pines South yesterday and didn't hit a blasted fairway for the first seven holes or so. Stinko. But then I got to thinking, and perhaps even remembering your post, that maybe I was sliding my hips forward on the down swing. So I just concentrated on rotating my hips back around without any lateral movement as I came down. It certainly felt like a different motion, which tells you something, no? I proceeded to hit the next three fairways in a row, and from then on felt much more confident with the driver. After that the tendency was to hit a draw that became a hook once or twice, but still this is something I'd rather be dealing with than a consistent push. It's important to still have a full weight shift, hanging back can lead to a hook. So the old umbrella drill is in order: stick it in the ground next to your left hip and don't touch it as you come forward. Now I just gotta find me an old umbrella .... Thanks for your suggestion Ben, I really think that it worked for me yesterday. Charles. p.s. you ought to see the Championship tee box on the par 5 13th that they are going to set up for the Buick and the U.S. Open (no grass on it yet). Long carry over a canyon to the fairway, and any sort of a draw puts you into a large tree or worse to the left. Truly awesome hole.