Should the act of "dropping" be eliminated in favor of always placing?

[bkuehn1952]

Other than on the green, is it fair to say:

• one drops a ball when a decision is made to move the ball (or it is in a water hazard) because of a condition or feature making play of the ball more difficult or impossible, 
• one places/replaces a ball when an outside agency or someone other than the player/partner/caddie moves the ball and the spot is known

I am looking for a "rule" that easily tells me when to place and when to drop.  Similar to the short cut "rule" of  "2 clubs when penalized, 1 club when free relief."

[bubble]

I vote no dropping is great it gives a chance for a lie.

sometimes I dont take a drop because I know the lie will be bad

a good example is water in a bunker, a drop will certainly plug the ball and playing in water is not difficult with a bit of practice.

another it a cart path surrounded by big rough.

[Fourputt]

3 hours ago, bkuehn1952 said:

Other than on the green, is it fair to say:

• one drops a ball when a decision is made to move the ball (or it is in a water hazard) because of a condition or feature making play of the ball more difficult or impossible, 
• one places/replaces a ball when an outside agency or someone other than the player/partner/caddie moves the ball and the spot is known

I am looking for a "rule" that easily tells me when to place and when to drop.  Similar to the short cut "rule" of  "2 clubs when penalized, 1 club when free relief."

Place the ball if the spot is known, or if it's on the putting green (relief on the putting green is the point that is nearest where the ball lies that gives relief which still makes it a precise point for placement - no additional clublength like you get through the green).  

[pumaAttack]

Does anybody remembering playing Microsoft Golf?

You could hit it into the water and take a drop.  But they were a little loose on the drop rules. You could literally drop the ball 300 yards further on the hole and right next to the pin.

Birdie the easy way.

[Fourputt]

16 minutes ago, pumaAttack said:

Does anybody remembering playing Microsoft Golf?

You could hit it into the water and take a drop.  But they were a little loose on the drop rules. You could literally drop the ball 300 yards further on the hole and right next to the pin.

Birdie the easy way.

Not in the later versions after Microsoft took over the Links franchise.  There were still some oddities about the drops, but they were never closer to the hole.  

[Golfingdad]

1 hour ago, Fourputt said:

Not in the later versions after Microsoft took over the Links franchise.  There were still some oddities about the drops, but they were never closer to the hole.  

I only remember PGA Tour golf on the Sega Genesis where if you hooked your drive on 18 at Sawgrass into the water, it dropped on the edge for you, but gave you a perfect "Jesus" stance right on top of the lake. ;)

[Lihu]

I voted no because of all the times I end up in a divot or other indentation (possibly an old divot that grew back a little). It's cheating to move the ball unless governed by a rule, so placing the ball is kind of like doing that.

My actual preference is to play as it lies, except where prohibited like flower beds, staked trees, environmentally sensitive areas, etc. One playing partner told me I had to take a drop from a red hazard, but I noted that as long as I don't ground the club I can play it out of a hazard. He was busy looking it up while I made my shot.

[jsgolfer]

I voted drop should stay the same.  Doing a proper drop is an art to get a better lie, as well as sometimes it's better to play as it lies as the drop could be worse.   The drop requires you to think, if you just place it, you could end up with a better lie than someone who hit it in the fairway or not as far off line

[Asheville]

12 hours ago, Mike Boatright said:

Dropping the ball is almost always for relief in pga tournaments the players drops it twice on purpose then places his ball it's stupid. Hitting a great tee shot down the middle and find it lands in a divot full of sand is bad luck but is also been up for discussion for a free drop because hitting a fairway shouldn't penalize you. Assume your getting relief from a cart path then it should be relief not have it fall in a small gopher hole impression. The only time golf is play is at it lies is in the fairway and rough in play where you don't get relief only and in the summer no winter rules. Trust me guys the game is hard enough why do people insist on making it harder.

I hope your other 399 posts indicate a better understanding of the principles behind the Rules of golf. (Hint, read Tufts.) 

[natureboy]

7 hours ago, bubble said:

I vote no dropping is great it gives a chance for a lie.

sometimes I dont take a drop because I know the lie will be bad

a good example is water in a bunker, a drop will certainly plug the ball and playing in water is not difficult with a bit of practice.

another it a cart path surrounded by big rough.

Yes, you're already getting relief plus you have the option not to take it. Already seems pretty fair.

[DrvFrShow]

In a practice or casual round I place. When I'm playing in a competition I drop.

[pumaAttack]

23 hours ago, Fourputt said:

Not in the later versions after Microsoft took over the Links franchise.  There were still some oddities about the drops, but they were never closer to the hole.  

 

Damn, why did they have to fix that bug?!

[jgreen85]

On 3/15/2016 at 8:57 AM, Golfingdad said:

Consider this:  A close match comes to the finishing hole tied and Player A hooks his tee shot OB.  He gets to re-tee (perfect lie), and plays that ball to a par for a double-bogey finish.  Player B hits two perfect shots and then a decent third that is about to land on the fringe 10 feet from the hole but it hits a sprinkler head, bounds over the green, and OB.  Now he has to drop near his previous shot and cross his fingers and hope that it doesn't bound into a divot hole.  If we were judging who's more entitled to a better lie there, I don't think anybody would choose Player A, so it's not really about entitlement.

In your cart path example, though, I kind of agree.  I could see people gaming the system with being allowed FREE placements.  Part of what goes into deciding to take a cart path (or similar) drop is the lie vs. the possible upcoming lie.

While admittedly not being a rules expert or an expert on the principles either, I think I would advocate for replacing penalty drops with places, but requiring that free drops remain drops.  You're taking a gamble on a better lie, you shouldn't be guaranteed one.  With the penalty drops, there is no such gamble.  You're forced to drop after having already been punished.  (So I voted "other")

I agree. 

[rehmwa]

Practice, casual rounds, do whatever you like.  Tee it up in the fairway.  Have fun.

Tournaments, etc?  No reason to change this rule.  Sometimes it's a bit silly, but that's part of the charm of trying to stay true to 'hit it as it lies' - a drop simulates a landing better than placing it.  Frankly, we should throw it down at the ground if we really want to meet the philosophy.....  ; )

 

 

(it's weird though, but my very BEST games/best scores, without exception, ever have been days when I played absolutely true to the rules - when you are hitting clean, it's kind of neat how you can still hit a good shot from odd lies as long as you maintain form and focus......there's a lesson in there somewhere)

[Big Lex]

I voted for #1--okay with eliminating dropping.

I admit, this is probably contrary to the basic principles of the game, one of them being that we have uneven, random playing fields and you have to deal with whatever you get.

But overall, I think this is one aspect of the game where changing would do more good than harm.

Yes, we would lose a bit of the randomness in these circumstances. But drops occur infrequently among the total number of strokes made, so it really doesn't decrease the randomness of the game overall by MUCH.

The benefit would be that it speeds up play to a degree when we are talking about drops on slopes....avoiding the multiple-drops-then-place scenario.

Placing the ball ALL the time (i.e., rolling it over in the fairway, etc.) is too much, and it removes an element of skill, so I'm not advocating that in any way.

But placing a ball in the penalty situations....you are already being penalized....and there are still restrictions on where you drop, so placing the ball doesn't necessarily guarantee you can get a perfect lie every time. You may be placing on hard pan or in clover or in some sort of condition you don't think is ideal.

And it's not like there aren't already situations where we make exceptions to the total concept randomness. We allow local rules of lift/clean/place under certain circumstances. When conditions are wet, for example, lift clean and place is used because we do NOT want the chance that something random like a mud-ball on a drive in the fairway will unduly affect the outcome of a competition. And everyone gets to clean their ball on the putting green, again something that goes against randomness, for a good reason. We are allowed to fix pitch marks on a green, even in our line, etc.

In all I think it would be a good move to eliminate dropping and just place the ball.

Edited April 13, 2016 by Big Lex

[MacDutch]

Golf isn't supposed to be easy. Placing in the rough is a bit like teeing it up. You could get a better lie in the rough then someone who hits it on the fairway. Rough is there for a reason. So I voted for 'let it be the way it is'

[Howling Coyote]

Really...

I think dropping should continue and more.  I am of the opinion that golfers should be blindfolded and spun around before dropping -except that this would take more time- since often they try to cheat.  Sometimes they don't like the lie and try to do the drop such that the ball rolls into the cart path, etc.

[Martyn W]

2 hours ago, Howling Coyote said:

Really...

I think dropping should continue and more.  I am of the opinion that golfers should be blindfolded and spun around before dropping -except that this would take more time- since often they try to cheat.  Sometimes they don't like the lie and try to do the drop such that the ball rolls into the cart path, etc.

In accordance with the principles, I do not disagree with your (albeit tongue-in-cheek) suggestion. The drop was always intended to give the same random result as the result of a stroke.

Some interesting bachground from ruleshistory.com:

The method of dropping a ball had a few early variants: 
1754 throw it at least six yards; 1776 Edinburgh Burgess throw it over your head; 1809 HCEG, 1830 Montrose, 1839 Royal Perth and 1812R&A, face the hole, and drop over the head; and the latter to be adopted over the shoulder from Perth 1825 and Blackheath 1828. 
When the 1899 rules came into force, the procedure was well detailed: behind the hazard, face the hole, stand erect and drop it from your head on a line from the hole.
In 1908 the new procedure of dropping over the shoulder introduced. It lasted until 1984, when the present method of dropping at arm's length was introduced.

Edited April 18, 2016 by Martyn W