University of Virginia student Otto Frederick Warmbier was sentenced for crimes against the state

[Valleygolfer]

Ouch... I am not sure why you think it is a good idea to go to North Korea... I am going to assume that they planted this on him and beat the admission of guilt into him.

 

http://www.cnn.com/2016/03/16/asia/north-korea-warmbier-sentenced/index.html

Edited March 16, 2016 by Valleygolfer

[rkim291968]

On 3/16/2016 at 1:25 PM, Valleygolfer said:

Ouch... I am not sure why you think it is a good idea to go to North Korea... I am going to assume that they planted this on him and beat the admission of guilt into him.

 

http://www.cnn.com/2016/03/16/asia/north-korea-warmbier-sentenced/index.html

Many tourists are going to NK to see how "bad" the regime is.  They want to experience it.   It's easier & better to spend a week in a county jail.   

[Valleygolfer]

1 minute ago, rkim291968 said:

Many tourists are going to NK to see how "bad" the regime is.  They want to experience it.   It's easier & better to spend a week in a county jail.   

If that is true, that has to be the dumbest and saddest reason to jeopardize your freedom.

[jamo]

8 minutes ago, rkim291968 said:

Many tourists are going to NK to see how "bad" the regime is.  They want to experience it.   It's easier & better to spend a week in a county jail.   

I don't know why you'd want to take the chance. 

[RandallT]

On 3/16/2016 at 4:25 PM, Valleygolfer said:

I am going to assume that they planted this on him and beat the admission of guilt into him.

Good assumption, but this is supposed security footage of him taking the sign. Could be faked, but it seems like he may have actually been dumb enough to try to take some memorabilia. I hav read it may have been for a friend's mom who wanted something cool from North Korea for her church??

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3494513/American-student-detained-North-Korea-sentenced-15-years-hard-labor-trying-steal-political-banner.html

Quote

According to Warmbier's statement on Monday, he wanted the banner with a political slogan on it as a trophy for the church member, who was the mother of a friend.

In his comments, Warmbier said he was offered a used car worth $10,000 by a member of the church.

He said the church member told him the slogan would be hung on its wall as a trophy. He also said he was told that if he was detained and didn't return, $200,000 would be paid to his mother in the form of a charitable donation.

Warmbier identified the church as the Friendship United Methodist Church, which is in his hometown of Wyoming, in Ohio.

Meshach Kanyion, pastor of the church, would not confirm whether he knows Warmbier or if he is a church member.

'I don't have any comment at this time,' he told The Associated Press.

 

[Pretzel]

It just doesn't seem smart to tempt fate in that way, assuming he really did attempt to take the poster as he was accused of doing. 

The funny thing is, if he had asked his guide if he could have a copy of the poster to "spread North Korean values into western culture" and allow his community to "better understand and appreciate the country as a whole" they might have been willing to give him a poster to take back and hang on his wall. They seem all too eager to spread their propaganda, provided you receive it only through official channels. 

[Abu3baid]

On March 16, 2016 at 11:25 PM, Valleygolfer said:

Ouch... I am not sure why you think it is a good idea to go to North Korea... I am going to assume that they planted this on him and beat the admission of guilt into him.

 

http://www.cnn.com/2016/03/16/asia/north-korea-warmbier-sentenced/index.html

I see no signs of physical abuse on him what so ever, actually when I hear him he sounds legitimately upset that he was caught and guilty.

[Valleygolfer]

6 hours ago, Abu3baid said:

I see no signs of physical abuse on him what so ever, actually when I hear him he sounds legitimately upset that he was caught and guilty.

He may have tried to grab the poster but the video is not clear enough to prove. Secondly, beating or torturing could have been done under the clothes or with lack of sleep.

Quote

 I never, never should have allowed myself to be lured by the United States administration to commit a crime in this country

I doubt that the US government is sending tourists to tear down the establishment, one poster at a time...

[Lihu]

9 hours ago, RandallT said:

Good assumption, but this is supposed security footage of him taking the sign. Could be faked, but it seems like he may have actually been dumb enough to try to take some memorabilia. I have read it may have been for a friend's mom who wanted something cool from North Korea for her church??

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3494513/American-student-detained-North-Korea-sentenced-15-years-hard-labor-trying-steal-political-banner.html

 

Not faked***. . .just plain stupid. I have no idea why anyone would consider doing anything like that, especially while we are technically still at war with the state? He went via China, so I guess he got a false sense of security while in China possibly thinking the conditions were more or less the same in North Korea? Why would any American want to go to North Korea?

That 15 year hard labor sentence is ridiculous, and it's probably what a native North Korean would face. Even a month of hard labor would be cruel enough.

 

***If it was and someone in the west found out that it was fake, the entire set of plotters in any fake conspiracy would be executed to save face for the state.

 

8 hours ago, Pretzel said:

It just doesn't seem smart to tempt fate in that way, assuming he really did attempt to take the poster as he was accused of doing. 

The funny thing is, if he had asked his guide if he could have a copy of the poster to "spread North Korean values into western culture" and allow his community to "better understand and appreciate the country as a whole" they might have been willing to give him a poster to take back and hang on his wall. They seem all too eager to spread their propaganda, provided you receive it only through official channels. 

I bet he could have gotten a better quality copy, when going back via China. . . 

 

[newtogolf]

As a parent my heart goes out to him and his family for him being so stupid.  You couldn't pay me enough to go to North Korea and if I was there I'd certainly not do anything that would give them a reason to detain or arrest me.  

Sadly, it's just another example of the entitlement and arrogance that kids in this country have with little appreciation for the ramifications of their actions.  I doubt the video is fake, if they just wanted to arrest him they'd have charged him as a spy.  

I'm not sure what the US can do on his behalf, it's not like we're friendly with North Korea these days and they appear to have proof that he tried to steal something.

[Lihu]

13 minutes ago, newtogolf said:

As a parent my heart goes out to him and his family for him being so stupid.  You couldn't pay me enough to go to North Korea and if I was there I'd certainly not do anything that would give them a reason to detain or arrest me.  

Sadly, it's just another example of the entitlement and arrogance that kids in this country have with little appreciation for the ramifications of their actions.  I doubt the video is fake, if they just wanted to arrest him they'd have charged him as a spy.  

I'm not sure what the US can do on his behalf, it's not like we're friendly with North Korea these days and they appear to have proof that he tried to steal something.

Agree, but I was trying to be somewhat nicer.

When Korea re-unifies, I'm sure he would be released. I hope it will happen pretty soon, but the war on terror has been pretty good for the North Korean*** economy.

 

***North Korea has a lot of factories building stuff, but you never see anything marked "Made in North Korea". Instead, "Сделано в России". And the $20 billl you just spent is also likely made in North Korea.

[RandallT]

43 minutes ago, newtogolf said:

Sadly, it's just another example of the entitlement and arrogance that kids in this country have with little appreciation for the ramifications of their actions.

This hits home for me. Despite all of our country's ills, I get the sense that we are raising a generation that has taken our country's freedoms for granted to some degree. A large number of young adults expect everything to be so perfect, and they express the most grievous victimhood and shock that the world they are just starting out in is not perfect. In my day, we'd be embarrassed to exhibit such cluelessness. 

He clearly had no idea what he was dealing with, although the evidence is everywhere. He simply chose to stick his head in the sand and pretend the world is better than it is.

When you travel and live abroad, I think you represent our country, and you should be on good behavior. Be respectful of other cultures- obey their norms and customs. Do not steal stuff, particularly in brutal dictatorial regimes- duh. 

He committed a bad mistake for himself, his family, and his country, and he'll pay dearly for it. I agree the penalty should be less, but I'm not shocked in the least. What the hell did he expect?

[Tee2Trees]

I'm starting to think he really did sneak onto the forbidden "employees only" floor and take a trophy.

 

BTW, check out the blurb from the outfit that arranges these tours abroad:

Young Pioneer Tours is an adventure travel company formed in 2008 and based in mainland China. Specialising in travel to North Korea, we are an adventure tour operator that provides “budget tours to destinations your mother would rather you stayed away from”.

[colin007]

it all seems very bizarre.  he has a terrible cry face.

[Lihu]

1 hour ago, RandallT said:

This hits home for me. Despite all of our country's ills, I get the sense that we are raising a generation that has taken our country's freedoms for granted to some degree. A large number of young adults expect everything to be so perfect, and they express the most grievous victimhood and shock that the world they are just starting out in is not perfect. In my day, we'd be embarrassed to exhibit such cluelessness. 

He clearly had no idea what he was dealing with, although the evidence is everywhere. He simply chose to stick his head in the sand and pretend the world is better than it is.

When you travel and live abroad, I think you represent our country, and you should be on good behavior. Be respectful of other cultures- obey their norms and customs. Do not steal stuff, particularly in brutal dictatorial regimes- duh. 

He committed a bad mistake for himself, his family, and his country, and he'll pay dearly for it. I agree the penalty should be less, but I'm not shocked in the least. What the hell did he expect?

This reminds me a little bit of the caning incident in FE https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_P._Fay

The punishment is so severe to our culture*** because we are accustomed to kids vandalizing things. What bothers me a little bit is this young adult was raised and funded by a church. I think they should re-evaluate their way of thinking just a little bit to more traditional Christian values.

 

***I certainly think this should be reduced to 1 month, and/or that he pay a $200,000 fine or something like that?

[Valleygolfer]

1 hour ago, colin007 said:

it all seems very bizarre.  he has a terrible cry face.

I don't think he knows yet how bad things are going to get... That cry face is just the thought of spending 15 years behind bars and losing his ipod but still deeply believing that the U.S. is going to save him and things will "all better"...

21 minutes ago, Lihu said:

 What bothers me a little bit is this young adult was raised and funded by a church. I think they should re-evaluate their way of thinking just a little bit to more traditional Christian values.
 

Another reason church and state should be separate. Religion does not prove that you know better.

[turtleback]

3 hours ago, newtogolf said:

As a parent my heart goes out to him and his family for him being so stupid.  You couldn't pay me enough to go to North Korea and if I was there I'd certainly not do anything that would give them a reason to detain or arrest me.  

Sadly, it's just another example of the entitlement and arrogance that kids in this country have with little appreciation for the ramifications of their actions.  I doubt the video is fake, if they just wanted to arrest him they'd have charged him as a spy.  

I'm not sure what the US can do on his behalf, it's not like we're friendly with North Korea these days and they appear to have proof that he tried to steal something.

These trips are the very height of moral obtuseness.  I hope this gets wide play and the companies that run these little torture-tourism trips get shut down by the market.  15 years is still too high a price to be paid, but that is the chance he (wittingly or unwittingly) took.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/northkorea/12195472/North-Korea-is-a-prison-camp-and-torture-chamber.-Why-not-go-there-on-holiday-and-take-some-hilarious-selfies.html

[Lihu]

Obviously an embarrassing situation for the Church: 56eb1e6a15c82.pdf