USGA/R&A Re-Evaluating All Rules, Top to Bottom

[Golfingdad]

25 minutes ago, iacas said:

I think there's almost no chance of using a standard measurement like feet, inches, meters, etc.

Hmm, then I wonder what they will do.  I checked the Code 2 stuff and their "standard relief" still references clublengths.

[bkuehn1952]

1 hour ago, iacas said:

… I don't really remember seeing spike marks much lately. @DaveP043, you were playing back in the metal spike era, as was I. The change, overnight, was remarkable. Spike marks just don't really exist anymore...

Beyond traditional spike marks, I occasionally note scuff marks where a player doesn't lift their feet walking or sort of spins in place.  Follow a group where someone is doing that and it makes putting a bit more difficult.  If these scuff marks will be repairable, that will be a nice change.

[sjduffers]

2 hours ago, Golfingdad said:

Hmm, then I wonder what they will do.  I checked the Code 2 stuff and their "standard relief" still references clublengths.

I'm guessing steps (ie approximately yards): yes the tall guys with long legs will have an advantage, but (nearly?) everyone comes equipped with the measuring tool, without having to go back to the bag to pull out a driver or a gigantic long putter. 

[colin007]

3 hours ago, bkuehn1952 said:

Beyond traditional spike marks, I occasionally note scuff marks where a player doesn't lift their feet walking or sort of spins in place.  Follow a group where someone is doing that and it makes putting a bit more difficult.  If these scuff marks will be repairable, that will be a nice change.

Yeah, basically this. Guys drag their feet at every single course I play at. But honestly, the guys on tour already fix spike marks under the guise of fixing pitch marks.

On 1/15/2017 at 2:27 PM, iacas said:

Don't take any as gospel. Just the latest rumors… albeit from some good sources I'll never name.

 

[Rulesman]

http://www.golfchannel.com/news/golf-central-blog/usga-ra-considering-significant-rules-changes

[natureboy]

6 hours ago, Golfingdad said:

Hmm, then I wonder what they will do.  I checked the Code 2 stuff and their "standard relief" still references clublengths.

 

3 hours ago, sjduffers said:

I'm guessing steps (ie approximately yards): yes the tall guys with long legs will have an advantage, but (nearly?) everyone comes equipped with the measuring tool, without having to go back to the bag to pull out a driver or a gigantic long putter. 

 

I suspected they would just go with nearest point of relief and remove the added club lengths.

Geoff Shackleford seems to confirm that's their solution.

[iacas]

2 hours ago, Rulesman said:

http://www.golfchannel.com/news/golf-central-blog/usga-ra-considering-significant-rules-changes

I love the "as first reported by…" bit. No. How old is this thread after all? It's not new news.

[sjduffers]

32 minutes ago, natureboy said:

I suspected they would just go with nearest point of relief and remove the added club lengths.

Geoff Shackleford seems to confirm that's their solution.

Fine when there is an NPR (e.g. cart path relief), but what about an unplayable or relief from a lateral water hazard, both currently measured with 2 club lengths?

Are you saying that the unplayable option of 2 clubs length is no longer an option (that would certainly affect more than a few cases if you'd have to go back in line with the flag which is not always possible, or go back to the previous spot, which is typically nearly an additional stroke), or that you get to drop (or place?) right on the red line?  That makes little sense to me...

Edited January 25, 2017 by sjduffers

[dkolo]

3 hours ago, sjduffers said:

Fine when there is an NPR (e.g. cart path relief), but what about an unplayable or relief from a lateral water hazard, both currently measured with 2 club lengths?

Are you saying that the unplayable option of 2 clubs length is no longer an option (that would certainly affect more than a few cases if you'd have to go back in line with the flag which is not always possible, or go back to the previous spot, which is typically nearly an additional stroke), or that you get to drop (or place?) right on the red line?  That makes little sense to me...

I'd guess they get rid of club length benefits on free relief and leave it for relief when you're taking a penalty to get relief (hazards, unplayables, etc.)

[natureboy]

3 hours ago, sjduffers said:

Fine when there is an NPR (e.g. cart path relief), but what about an unplayable or relief from a lateral water hazard, both currently measured with 2 club lengths?

Are you saying that the unplayable option of 2 clubs length is no longer an option (that would certainly affect more than a few cases if you'd have to go back in line with the flag which is not always possible, or go back to the previous spot, which is typically nearly an additional stroke), or that you get to drop (or place?) right on the red line?  That makes little sense to me...

I don't know. I only saw that Shackelford seemed to think that was the approach.

Speculation would be (if this is what they plan to do) that you would get to do nearest point of full relief or full relief to either side of the obstacle you are taking unplayable for no nearer the hole for the 'lateral option' and still get the 'as far back as you want on the line with the hole. If they do embedded balls 'through the green' then the potential advantage of getting club length onto the fairway absent an obstacle wouldn't be an issue, I think.

BTW, Golf Channel reports that the official announcement will come in March followed by a comment period.

13 minutes ago, dkolo said:

I'd guess they get rid of club length benefits on free relief and leave it for relief when you're taking a penalty to get relief (hazards, unplayables, etc.)

Or this.

Edited January 25, 2017 by natureboy

[iacas]

8 hours ago, natureboy said:

Speculation would be (if this is what they plan to do) that you would get to do nearest point of full relief or full relief to either side of the obstacle you are taking unplayable for no nearer the hole for the 'lateral option' and still get the 'as far back as you want on the line with the hole.

That won't work at all.

Players can take an unplayable whenever they want. There's not necessarily any sort of "obstacle" from which you can find the nearest point of relief, nor is there always going to be some sort of clear margin. Heck, I've seen players take unplayable lies not because of the lie (or stance or area of swing) but because they didn't like the target line they had.

Even those reasonably familiar with the Rules of Golf know that taking an unplayable lie doesn't guarantee that the player won't just get another crappy lie or shot from which he has no real choice but to take another unplayable.

I'll chalk this one up to a brain fart, @natureboy, because it looks really bad on you otherwise.

[natureboy]

On 1/25/2017 at 8:41 AM, iacas said:

That won't work at all.

Players can take an unplayable whenever they want. There's not necessarily any sort of "obstacle" from which you can find the nearest point of relief, nor is there always going to be some sort of clear margin.

The reference to obstacles was about how they would handle drops without club lengths options for things like hazards, obstructions, GUR, etc and possibly for an obstacle that you are taking unplayable for.

Absent an obstacle you take relief relative to the current lie of the ball or you play from the prior position. Maybe with the unplayable they'd let you go as far sideways as you want no nearer the hole, but that seems like it would be too radical/generous.

If you have the insider dish on how they'll be handling elimination of club lengths on penalty drops, why not share it?

Edited February 4, 2017 by natureboy

[iacas]

2 hours ago, natureboy said:

The reference to obstacles was about how they would handle drops without club lengths options for things like hazards, obstructions, GUR, etc and possibly for an obstacle that you are taking unplayable for.

You're not getting it. There's no "obstacle" in an unplayable ball. The player can declare a ball unplayable almost anywhere. There's no "obstacle" to go to the edge of.

And you weren't talking about water hazards, GUR, etc. up above. You talked about the edge of the obstacle when taking an unplayable.

2 hours ago, natureboy said:

If you have the insider dish on how they'll be handling elimination of club lengths on penalty drops, why not share it?

I didn't say I had this specific bit.

[iacas]

March, it looks like, is when the first draft will be made public. 2018 will be missed, but January 1, 2019 is on the table for sure, chopping off the last year of the typical four years that a set of Rules is given reign.

http://www.golfdigest.com/story/years-in-the-making-a-fundamental-overhaul-of-the-rules-of-golf-expected-to-be-revealed-in-march

Quote

What’s expected to be revealed is nothing short of the biggest restructuring of the Rules in decades. “It doesn’t fundamentally change how you think golf is played,” Davis said. “What it does do is fundamentally change the understanding of the rules, why they are the way they are, and how they’ll be communicated.”

…

Bodenhamer said that the roll out for the newly proposed Rules is expected to take place in March, followed by a six-month comment period where the USGA and R&A will solicit feedback from any and everyone in the golf community. From there, the two governing bodies will regroup to finalize language that will be revealed in late 2017 or early 2018 and go into effect Jan. 1, 2019, a year ahead of the normal timing for Rules changes.

[Asheville]

I know that I'm hoping for fewer "excepts" and "unlesses". :)

[iacas]

35 minutes ago, Asheville said:

I know that I'm hoping for fewer "excepts" and "unlesses". :)

Have you looked over Code Two?

[Asheville]

I did, when it first came out, and recall not thinking much of it. However, I'm quite invested in the principles inherent in today's Rules. 

[iacas]

1 minute ago, Asheville said:

I did, when it first came out, and recall not thinking much of it. However, I'm quite invested in the principles inherent in today's Rules. 

You should take another look at Code Two.