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Presidential Race 2016


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Who do you want to see as our next President?  

81 members have voted

  1. 1. Who will you vote for as our next President?

    • Hillary Clinton (D)
      28
    • Bernie Sanders (D)
      16
    • Donald Trump (R)
      32
    • Ted Cruz (R)
      5


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Just now, saevel25 said:

You get enough wasted votes and they don't become wasted anymore ;)

Your guy is not going to win.

And so I wasn't going to make a nearly infinitely scrolling list of all the people for whom someone might vote.

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2 hours ago, newtogolf said:

8 years of GW and 8 years of Obama has placed us in a big mess, something radical needs to be done and the solution definitely isn't Bernie or Hillary.  

You've been around a little longer than me, and you clearly follow politics more than me, so you must realize that a version of this sentence gets repeated ad nauseum by about half of the country EVERY 4 years.  Yet, we're still here and ticking along strongly.

This statement is like the TaylorMade marketing of politics.  Every 3 months its "10 more yards! with the tech in this new driver," yet somehow, miraculously, we're not all hitting 1,200 yard drives at this point, so what gives?

Certainly there are ups and downs in various areas all of the time.  We take some steps forward and some steps back, but in general, we're usually going strong.

Maybe, just maybe, "big mess" is just being a hair hyperbolic?:beer:

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12 minutes ago, Golfingdad said:

yet somehow, miraculously, we're not all hitting 1,200 yard drives at this point,

What?  you aren't?

I think there is plenty of proof in these forums that a lot of guys are regularly hitting half that anyway......

(for the slow people, I'd like to add this ----- >   :whistle:;-)

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1 hour ago, saevel25 said:

How is that? Explain to me how Trump is making them vote for Bernie?

I think it's more to do with Bernie stating he wants to give out free education. A lot of those people are saddle with mountains of college debt.

From a poll done on demographics, Democrats have a big lead with the Millennials before Trump even announced he was running. The same group Bernie is identifying with. It was just a matter of them finding a candidate they like. They like the cool old dude over the stuck up white woman.

I am giving Trump ZERO credit for those people voting for Bernie.

I'm hypothesizing that fear of Trump would drive millennials to vote. Granted, if it's a factor, it's not big.

In terms of Bernie vs. Hillary, I don't think it's that simple. Only 65% of Bernie supporters say they'll vote for Hillary. It's just a poll, but there's something else there.

I'm cynical too, but if the election is just a matter of "free tuition" or "who's cooler", we wouldn't have so much uncertainty. It's easy to draw perceived conclusions using demographics as if you knew them all along.

Edited by chspeed
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13 minutes ago, chspeed said:

I'm hypothesizing that fear of Trump would drive millennials to vote. Granted, if it's a factor, it's not big

I don't see it that way. It just doesn't make sense. It would make more sense if the minority group unified and supported the best candidate they thought could defeat Trump. I think the policies of the Millennials identify with the cool old dude over Hillary.

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9 hours ago, Patch said:

 

Your point is you want to keep the same type of people (mindsets) running the country who, imo are doing a poor job due to their handlers, and their own personal agendas once elected. I want something better from our elected officials. 

You say they are doing a poor job.  I look at what Obama has accomplished and say he has done a great job. Why would I want to turn that success over to a man who has no experience in politics?  

Even if you disagree that Obama has done a great job, would you honestly rather have a lawyer fix your car and a mechanic represent you in court?

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I'm not really surprised by the Sanders votes.

It's amazing that these two candidates are so popular. So, I have not lost hope in our site (hoping reflective of our country). To the crowd of "government is not doing what we want" voters, the younger ones seem to converge to Sanders and the older ones to Trump. I'm kind of in the middle.

Crazy old guy versus a tacky Dangerfield-like golfer. Better choices given the alternatives. :-D

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18 minutes ago, pumaAttack said:

Even if you disagree that Obama has done a great job, would you honestly rather have a lawyer fix your car and a mechanic represent you in court?

Politics does not require training and certification like those professions, nor are they done alone - there are thousands of people supporting the President of the United States.

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I usually vote for Republicans....I don't think I've ever voted for a Democrat for president. That said, I agree with Republicans primarily on the economic policy/fiscal front and the limited government principles. I usually agree more with Democrats on social issues. The former seems more important to me, so that's why I think I'm a Republican voter.

This time, though, I don't know. I don't know who I will vote for. The only one I'm sure I won't vote for is Sanders. I strongly oppose his ideas about the nature and scope of government and just couldn't vote for him.

I like Hillary Clinton's intelligence and the fact that she seems to be a classical politician who seeks compromise, etc.; well, I'm sort of generalizing from her husband, but Bill Clinton did a lot of good things because he was able to make friends in both parties and get people to make compromises. If Hillary were the same, that would be good for the country.

But I don't really like her as a person. I just don't think she has as much backbone and integrity as I'd like. I don't like her as our head of state, our representative in the world. I think the healthcare law was poorly done, and I think she will make that situation worse and not better.

I don't like Donald Trump because he is the least presidential, and I absolutely cannot see him being the face of the nation and our representative in the world. He is crass, openly crass, and I don't like that. I know things get nasty and every person has flaws and warts, but he seems to make a spectacle of it and I just don't think this is what I want in a leader. I like his stance on healthcare and trade, but I have little confidence that his ideas have practical legs. Maybe they do, but I don't know, and given that his life's work has nothing really to do with governing, I don't think HE knows whether his ideas are any good, either. He just knows they resonate with voters.

Cruz is the most intelligent legal mind of all the candidates by a mile, and he follows his convictions and would be a formidable head of state and representative. I'm just not sure about him. He's too right wing for me socially, and I'm not sure he hasn't drunk too much of the Kool-Aid regarding taxes and so forth. I said I agree with Republicans on fiscal policy and the economy. I do, in general and in principle, but I also think special interests have made the Republicans too intransigent on taxes and so forth. It is NOT 1981 anymore. We do NOT have double digit inflation. Taxes are already low. Lowering taxes further is not likely, in my view, to produce a major surge in economic activity.

I'm slightly leaning toward Hillary. I would be more willing to vote for Cruz than Trump. I've almost ruled Trump out, but I want to hear what he says in the coming months and how the general election race goes after the conventions.

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My thoughts on Sanders and why people around my age (I'm 26) are supporters. I went to college for one year I made the bad decision when I was 17 to attend a private college and that one year put me $22,000 in debt (after about 18K in scholarships and grants) everyone says we want free college NO we want AFFORDABLE college I think community college should be free and Universities and Private schools should make their tuition more reasonable so that graduates aren't crippled with debt for the next 30 years of their lives.

The second reason I am a huge supporter is the federal legalization of cannabis. Now I am not a user my job drug tests for it I did when I was younger and find it to be much safer than alcohol. But the war on drugs costs us billions and billions of dollars not to mention the people locked away in jail or prison over needless marijuana offenses. Even just think about the amount of tax dollars it can bring in. In Colorado the fiscal year ending June of last year they brought in over 70 million dollars in tax revenue nearly doubling what was made in alcohol tax. I just cannot believe this is even an issue and the public perception is starting to sway so I believe it is just a matter of time. I honestly think that there's really only one statistic that needs to be brought up that should sway anyone against marijuana is that in states that have legalized marijuana painkiller overdoses have dropped by 25%.... TWENTY FIVE PERCENT! That's incredible and as it is more widely accepted that number will go even higher. That's my spiel.

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11 minutes ago, Lugowskins said:

My thoughts on Sanders and why people around my age (I'm 26) are supporters. I went to college for one year I made the bad decision when I was 17 to attend a private college and that one year put me $22,000 in debt (after about 18K in scholarships and grants) everyone says we want free college NO we want AFFORDABLE college I think community college should be free and Universities and Private schools should make their tuition more reasonable so that graduates aren't crippled with debt for the next 30 years of their lives.

These are my thoughts exactly.  I did a little better if you look at it by total amount of debt accumulated but I spent 5 years at a private school.  I currently have $57,000 in school loan debt. While I can't say that the idea of those being wiped out is unappealing, all I really want going forward is for things to be more reasonable.  My school was great, but it wasn't worth the $35,000 per year price tag.  I'll probably be paying these things off at least another 10 years and that's nothing unforeseen pops up.

Being one of the first people in my family to go to college and being part of a family that, while able to live comfortably, is probably below the poverty line I didn't have anyone to tell me that I was perhaps making a poor decision.

On a side note, its asinine that student debt doesn't really help your credit, but it certainty can hurt it.  It shouldn't matter what kind of debt you have if you can prove that you are able to make payments each month.

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@Lugowskins One of the biggest causes of higher education costs is, sorry to say, costly athletic programs: namely football. There's a study I read recently that shows just under 50% of student fees go toward supporting athletic programs. Football is the most costly. Many big schools built gladiatorial arenas and they're practically a farm system for the NFL. These stadiums cost tens of millions to build and require very large budgets to maintain. The teams require marketing. Yes, they say they bring in money. Meanwhile other buildings used for academics on campuses are falling into disrepair and are in need of replacement. Costs of education are increasing. There are some serious questions that need to be asked. Do athletics warrant those kinds of expenditures?

*******

Part II. - Why our elections are like they are.

One of the biggest, if the the biggest problem we have right now is that lack of real journalism. There are no news sources that report facts except for your local news reporting what is happening in your neighborhood. But even that really can only be trusted to a point. The so-called news is all agenda driven. It's run by giant corporations who have an agenda and pay their employees to promote that agenda. Their broadcasts are paid for by other corporations that buy time to promote their products. These corporations have agendas. If they don't go along with certain agendas and instead report facts, they lose advertising. That means they lose income. Our information sources are for sale. 

So turn to blogs, you say. Well the bloggers all have agendas. They make the facts look the way they want them to look. And people buy that. Our news sources lie to us. The people reporting the news think they're telling us the truth, but they're repeating the messages they're told to tell us. It's their sources that are feeding them twisted information.

You can't trust any source of information unless you see the original sources. Those get quickly marked "classified" by governments. 

This is why we have elections like we do. Do you really think Hillary Clinton is the evil satanic woman that they've painted her as. Do you really think you have all the facts about her? No, you don't. All you have is the spin you've heard on the radio and TV from commentators. Sanders is a Liberal but since the media turned that word into a swear word he's using the word Socialist. Sanders isn't a socialist. This country has moved so far to the right in the past 30 years we forgot where the center is. Lyndon Johnson was a liberal - think Civil Rights Amendment, Voting Rights Act of 1965. Meanwhile Donald Trump, Ted Cruz, and John Kasich have shredded the Constitution in their speeches with various promises and ideas. What would Donald Trump say if he's elected and someone tells him "you can't do that, Mr. President. It violates the ___ Amendment."

It is well known that keeping people afraid works. Fear is the most primal of all emotions. It stimulates adrenaline production. It triggers the fight or flight mechanism in the most primitive part of the brain - the limbic system. Get a mob together with someone controlling this through speech, and you get indoctrination. 

"We have nothing to fear, but fear itself." - Franklin Roosevelt

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36 minutes ago, Lugowskins said:

My thoughts on Sanders and why people around my age (I'm 26) are supporters. I went to college for one year I made the bad decision when I was 17 to attend a private college and that one year put me $22,000 in debt (after about 18K in scholarships and grants) everyone says we want free college NO we want AFFORDABLE college I think community college should be free and Universities and Private schools should make their tuition more reasonable so that graduates aren't crippled with debt for the next 30 years of their lives.

There is more assistance today to pay for college than ever in history, yet the debt burden for students is higher than ever. It was much cheaper, inflation-adjusted, to go to college 50 years ago when there was practically zero money available. Does that make sense?

The only way it does, to me anyway, is to consider that pouring grant money and government-guaranteed loan money into the pot makes it LESS affordable, not MORE. So Sanders will make it WORSE, not better.

When federal and state money via loans (cheap, easy credit) began making its way into university treasuries, they began to spend it. They built better facilities. To attract more students, and get more of the free money. The bigger and nicer your school, the more it costs to go there. This gave them more money to hire faculty, which meant more salaries to pay, more benefits to pay. When one school does it, so does every other one, because they have to compete for the students. Eventually, the standard has been raised, and that costs more, and it eats up and eclipses the "free" money you poured into it.

I'm not saying there aren't other reasons for the escalation in education costs, but this is a big part of it. The free money increased the demand for a college education, and the price went up to meet the demand. Economics 101. 

It's an unintended consequence. You can't just argue for MORE money. Eventually, you run out of other people's money.

Edited by Big Lex
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35 minutes ago, Lugowskins said:

My thoughts on Sanders and why people around my age (I'm 26) are supporters. I went to college for one year I made the bad decision when I was 17 to attend a private college and that one year put me $22,000 in debt (after about 18K in scholarships and grants) everyone says we want free college NO we want AFFORDABLE college I think community college should be free and Universities and Private schools should make their tuition more reasonable so that graduates aren't crippled with debt for the next 30 years of their lives.

The second reason I am a huge supporter is the federal legalization of cannabis. Now I am not a user my job drug tests for it I did when I was younger and find it to be much safer than alcohol. But the war on drugs costs us billions and billions of dollars not to mention the people locked away in jail or prison over needless marijuana offenses. Even just think about the amount of tax dollars it can bring in. In Colorado the fiscal year ending June of last year they brought in over 70 million dollars in tax revenue nearly doubling what was made in alcohol tax. I just cannot believe this is even an issue and the public perception is starting to sway so I believe it is just a matter of time. I honestly think that there's really only one statistic that needs to be brought up that should sway anyone against marijuana is that in states that have legalized marijuana painkiller overdoses have dropped by 25%.... TWENTY FIVE PERCENT! That's incredible and as it is more widely accepted that number will go even higher. That's my spiel.

I can understand that people would like little to no student debt, I really do. I do wish they could find a better way to help people avoid so much student debt. I don't agree with legalization of marijuana. I just don't, mostly for personal reasons stemming from friends and family who have ruined their lives by using drugs. One of the reasons people give, like you did, that "but look at the money it can bring in" really bothers me. It's like saying, as long as we can make money off of it that's all that matters. We could sell special licenses to people who want to be able to speed, that could bring in a lot of extra money. I mean look at the small percentage of people who speed that actually get into accidents. Making something legal, just so we can get tax money from it just seems.... I'm not sure the word that fits without being insulting. That's all I have to say about this particular subject.

I still stand by the statement I made earlier, there's not a single candidate of the "big four" that I feel comfortable backing. The fact that these are what we have to work with is very disappointing.

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The ready availability of student loans PLUS the fact that banks are so willing to offer them because they cannot be excused means colleges do not have to compete on price.

That's the best single-sentence explanation for college costs being what they are that I've ever heard.

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2 minutes ago, iacas said:

The ready availability of student loans PLUS the fact that banks are so willing to offer them because they cannot be excused means colleges do not have to compete on price.

That's the best single-sentence explanation for college costs being what they are that I've ever heard.

This ^^

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