Playing a Round of Golf Solo

[Missouri Swede]

24 minutes ago, iacas said:

I don't think the USGA has said the rule exists to prevent sandbagging.

Here's what they say:

Quote

Playing alone and necessary peer review: To further support the key System premise of peer review, scores made while playing alone will no longer be acceptable for handicap purposes. This change underscores the importance of providing full and accurate information regarding a player’s potential scoring ability, and the ability of other players to form a reasonable basis for supporting or disputing a posted score. (Section 5-1: Acceptability of Scores)

 

[Lihu]

48 minutes ago, Groucho Valentine said:

As a matter of convenience a lot of us pick and choose all the time. This stuff isnt moses coming down from the mountain. Its just a game. I just have faith that most people will post accurately. People who are dishonest are going to be that way. The new rule won't prevent sandbagging or the guy who says he's a +2 and goes out in Open Qauli and shoots 100.  So Im not in favor of needless rules that inconvenience the majority of players. We're having a hard enough time keeping people in the game as it is.  I guess money games at clubs that have handicap components might like tighter controls, but sandbaggers get reps rather quickly. We don't need a rule to prevent it, IMO. 

I don't think it would prevent it. It could even make it easier to sand bag and do it legit.

Let's say someone in an all year playing/posting environment establishes his handicap in the wintertime and does not play winter rules. Plays as it lies and plays out of standing water, GUR and/or all those other adverse conditions while still adhering to the "must take" rules. On top of this, he's probably going to be 2-3 clubs longer on approach shots. So, let's say he plays 10 tournaments in the summer time and uses all the proper relief and plays solo rounds the rest of the time for "practice". He's definitely going to have a 2 or more stroke advantage over his handicap, and it's not really cheating or sand bagging on "purpose". Not the intent of the rule, but legitimate "sand bagging".

I think the rule is more or less what everyone is stating it is, a first step towards being compatible with a "universal" handicap system.

[Groucho Valentine]

2 minutes ago, Lihu said:

I don't think it would prevent it. It could even make it easier to sand bag and do it legit.

Let's say someone in an all year playing/posting environment establishes his handicap in the wintertime and does not play winter rules. Plays as it lies and plays out of standing water, GUR and/or all those other adverse conditions. On top of this he's probably going to be 2-3 clubs longer on approach shots. So, let's say he plays 10 tournaments in the summer time and uses all the proper relief and plays solo rounds the rest of the time for "practice". He's definitely going to have a 2 or more stroke advantage over his handicap, and it's not really cheating or sand bagging on "purpose". Not the intent of the rule, but legitimate "sand bagging".

I think the rule is more or less what everyone is stating it is, a first step towards being compatible with a "universal" handicap system.

I get that, but you cant control regional weather. The handicap system we have now is ok, IMO. A tournament player that plays all year around has a competitive advantage over a player that has to deal with winter with or without handicaps. If i can play all year around id be the king of golf lol

[DaveP043]

8 minutes ago, Lihu said:

say someone in an all year playing/posting environment establishes his handicap in the wintertime and does not play winter rules. Plays as it lies and plays out of standing water, GUR and/or all those other adverse conditions while still adhering to the "must take" rules. On top of this, he's probably going to be 2-3 clubs longer on approach shots. So, let's say he plays 10 tournaments in the summer time and uses all the proper relief and plays solo rounds the rest of the time for "practice". He's definitely going to have a 2 or more stroke advantage over his handicap, and it's not really cheating or sand bagging on "purpose". Not the intent of the rule, but legitimate "sand bagging".

We have year round posting here, and we see a definite trend for handicaps to rise through the winter and early spring, and fall through the better weather.  I don't think that means anyone is sandbagging, its an inevitable consequence of the decision to post scores year-round.  However, one of the two primary principles behind the handicap system is that a player will always try to shoot the best score possible, and someone playing out of standing water and GUR is intentionally not doing that.  In my mind, he's guilty of intentionally manipulating his score for handicap purposes.  This is where the requirement to play with someone else can decrease (not eliminate) sandbagging.

[Groucho Valentine]

50 minutes ago, iacas said:

They just… choose to ignore them and make up their own?

You're not in a golf league because you're not really playing golf. You're getting a score, and that score can be used to determine if you've won or lost, but it really lacks definition outside of your league, because you're not playing golf.

That specific stuff is probably , but the sentiment that we should only have to play by the rules we like is central to this solo rounds idea. Though even that is kind of OT given the OP.

As golfers we don't get to decide which rules we get to follow and which we do not.

It's a game, yeah, and what you do has no real effect on me, but let's call a spade a spade: you're cheating, because you're not following the rules of the game. Just as someone would by not following ESC, or not posting their really good rounds, or giving themselves any putt inside 4'.

Do I care much? Does it make you a bad person? No to both. But call yourself a spade and stop trying to justify your spade-ness.

So there are two things you'd have to defend in that statement:

• "needlessly" - the USGA clearly sees a need or they'd not have done it. That "need" may or may not be the world handicap system coming in the next… few years.
• "the majority" - I highly doubt the majority of golfers with handicaps are playing solo rounds.

What's that got to do with anything? Do you think people are going to leave golf because they can't post their solo rounds?

I don't think the USGA has said the rule exists to prevent sandbagging.

The less regulations that govern player behavior, the better.  This solo round thing is feels like morality police and i think its ridiculous. Most people who post scores are honest about it. They should continue to do so if they're playing solo.  Honesty should be player responsibility. We're going to say that the holy golf rules should be self enforced, but not allow the actual score to be player responsibility as well? I don't get it. So in that spirt, players should ignore that one if they see fit. Let that middle finger fly. I certainly do. 

[Lihu]

13 minutes ago, DaveP043 said:

We have year round posting here, and we see a definite trend for handicaps to rise through the winter and early spring, and fall through the better weather.  I don't think that means anyone is sandbagging, its an inevitable consequence of the decision to post scores year-round.  However, one of the two primary principles behind the handicap system is that a player will always try to shoot the best score possible, and someone playing out of standing water and GUR is intentionally not doing that.  In my mind, he's guilty of intentionally manipulating his score for handicap purposes.  This is where the requirement to play with someone else can decrease (not eliminate) sandbagging.

Sure, that's the intent, but there is no mandatory use rule for casual water relief or even cart path relief. The person in question could argue that he's playing out of standing water because relief would put him behind a tree or something like that? Or he could argue that there is a divot in the relief area and does not want to risk falling into it. Any lame excuse to make it "easier" for him. He could also be just skilled at swinging a club but stupid too, you can't really punish stupid and obstinate.

The principle to play as well as you can is an internal thing that you can't really prove one way or another.

I can see that it seems like this rule could reduce sand bagging, but in reality it's hard to prove someone is doing it even when witnessing their playing? If anything the new rule might possibly prevent vanity capping, but even that maybe not so much. Most people are focused on their own games too much to be watching what others are doing.

[DaveP043]

12 minutes ago, Groucho Valentine said:

 I don't get it. So in that spirt, players should ignore that one if they see fit. Let that middle finger fly. I certainly do. 

I think if you feel that strongly, you should inform your local Handicap Committee of your decision.  Don't rebel in secret, be a man, be proud of your choice!

[Jeremie Boop]

10 minutes ago, Groucho Valentine said:

The less regulations that govern player behavior, the better.  This solo round thing is feels like morality police and i think its ridiculous. Most people who post scores are honest about it. They should continue to do so if they're playing solo.  Honesty should be player responsibility. We're going to say that the holy golf rules should be self enforced, but not allow the actual score to be player responsibility as well? I don't get it. So in that spirt, players should ignore that one if they see fit. Let that middle finger fly. I certainly do. 

As one of the people that this new rule affects quite a bit, I have to admit there have been some pretty good points raised about how little it really means unless you compete. For me, tracking my HC is a measure of how I've improved and I could easily do that with an unofficial handicap tracking method. For people who do compete, they typically aren't playing alone as often as I do. Honestly, even just using competition rounds for handicap purposes is probably the most valid way anyway. At first I was very annoyed with this new rule, but as I've read other people's responses I've become more accepting of the fact that it really doesn't matter for someone like me. I was like you at first, feeling like it was a "slap in the face" as it were, saying I couldn't be trusted to be honest about my score so I can understand where you are coming from. That being said, if we are to follow the rules, we have to follow all of them regardless of if we agree with them or not. Heck, I think the seatbelt law is ridiculous, but I wear that dang belt because I don't want to pay a ticket!

[Elmer]

1 hour ago, iacas said:

They just… choose to ignore them and make up their own?

You're not in a golf league because you're not really playing golf. You're getting a score, and that score can be used to determine if you've won or lost, but it really lacks definition outside of your league, because you're not playing golf.

 

We have been down this road many, many, many times. 
I am hitting a golf ball, with a golf club toward a golf hole. Call it "modified golf league". Call it a "recreational golf league", but don't be elitist and say we are not playing golf.

This is no different than my kid's soccer league. When the other team is short a few players and they run 5 on 5, and forgo corner kicks should we belittle them for not playing "soccer"?
My league has a 70 year history and has allowed the democratic process to the run the league. Never do I pretend that shooting a 40 (for 9) in my league is the same as shooting a 40 in a PGA pro-am!
Not all of us are lucky enough to work on a golf course, be a pro or spend countless hours playing this game.
Some of us have play in a league to spend time with family & friends.
to bring it back OT
Some of us have no friends who golf and have to play alone when the we find the time.For the PGA or Rules of Golf to say my solo round is any less worthy because I cant be trusted or no one is with me is silly. It is a number and that number only matters to those who compete in competitions, not us hacking weekend warriors!
 

[Groucho Valentine]

10 minutes ago, DaveP043 said:

I think if you feel that strongly, you should inform your local Handicap Committee of your decision.  Don't rebel in secret, be a man, be proud of your choice!

 

I would gladly give some of those dudes at this one club the finger, lol. They're like stadler and waldorf. 

[Jeremie Boop]

5 minutes ago, Elmer said:

 It is a number and that number only matters to those who compete in competitions, not us hacking weekend warriors!
 

Are you saying that the score doesn't matter or the handicap? Either way, you are actually correct, it only matters if competing which is why not being able to post for a handicap for people like you and I who don't compete isn't important. Thusly, the rule shouldn't be a problem. As I previously mentioned, I too was upset with the change at first, but the more I thought about how little it mattered for someone like me who doesn't take part in tournaments the more I realized that I had nothing to be upset about.

[rehmwa]

12 minutes ago, Elmer said:

We have been down this road many, many, many times. 
I am hitting a golf ball, with a golf club toward a golf hole. Call it "modified golf league". Call it a "recreational golf league", but don't be elitist and say we are not playing golf.
 

I'm going to name it "Glof"

Glof is a lot more fun:  Glof we just play our own game:  Glof we smile a lot:  Glof we don't have uptight weirdos that think their watches make them better then others:  Glof, we don't have to match shoes and belt, but we also can - it's our choice:  Glof is ok with cargo shorts and baseball caps - or any caps for that matter - or no caps:

It's like Caddy Day at Bushwood - all the time - with the music

We really are great hitters of the glof ball, and great glof putters.  And hit nice glof shots.  (all the while rocking the hats that we're sporting)

Quote

J Boop  "the more I thought about how little it mattered for someone like me who doesn't take part in tournaments the more I realized that I had nothing to be upset about."

That's the attitude - 100% agree.  That's a great glof comment.

[Patch]

9 minutes ago, rehmwa said:

I'm going to name it "Glof"

Glof is a lot more fun:  Glof we just play our own game:  Glof we smile a lot:  Glof we don't have uptight weirdos that think their watches make them better then others:  Glof, we don't have to match shoes and belt, but we also can - it's our choice:  Glof is ok with cargo shorts and baseball caps - or any caps for that matter - or no caps:

It's like Caddy Day at Bushwood - all the time - with the music

We really are great hitters of the glof ball, and great glof putters.  And hit nice glof shots.  (all the while rocking the hats that we're sporting)

That's the attitude - 100% agree.  That's a great glof comment.

I could probably fit into that "Glof" attitude since you mentioned cargo shorts. Plus I never wear a watch.

[DaveP043]

12 minutes ago, rehmwa said:

And hit nice glof shots.  (all the while rocking the hats that we're sporting)

Did you get a free bowl of soup with that hat? 

BTW, you could call it Flog, golf backwards.

[Groucho Valentine]

27 minutes ago, Jeremie Boop said:

As one of the people that this new rule affects quite a bit, I have to admit there have been some pretty good points raised about how little it really means unless you compete. For me, tracking my HC is a measure of how I've improved and I could easily do that with an unofficial handicap tracking method. For people who do compete, they typically aren't playing alone as often as I do. Honestly, even just using competition rounds for handicap purposes is probably the most valid way anyway. At first I was very annoyed with this new rule, but as I've read other people's responses I've become more accepting of the fact that it really doesn't matter for someone like me. I was like you at first, feeling like it was a "slap in the face" as it were, saying I couldn't be trusted to be honest about my score so I can understand where you are coming from. That being said, if we are to follow the rules, we have to follow all of them regardless of if we agree with them or not. Heck, I think the seatbelt law is ridiculous, but I wear that dang belt because I don't want to pay a ticket!

I still feel that way. 

[mcanadiens]

Ok. Now that 90% of my rounds won't count, this glof idea is probably the way to go when alone. Here are some ideas for my next glof round:

1. Hitting driver as hard as I can on Hawk's par-three No. 13 just to see if I can put one into the water treatment plant.

2. Seeing if I can hit my 3-iron further left-handed off the back of the club than I do the normal way.

3. Attempting to hit my 60-degree over trees regardless of where I am on a particular hole.

4. Never removing the pin from the hole

5. Going for every single pin.

6. Not having to find what corner of my pocket the stupid pencil crept into.

7. Absolutely no reason not to drink beer (and plenty of it) while playing

8. Total avoidance of the infamous Kittyhawk rock traps.

9. Saving money by skipping the driving range for the standard warm-up bucket.

10. I can have as many clubs in my bag as I want.

 

[DaveP043]

3 minutes ago, Groucho Valentine said:

I still feel that way. 

Here's the thing, many of us choose to post our scores in accordance with the rules of the USGA Handicap system.  To me, its a slap in the face when some random individual decides that his personal opinions are more important than the rules that the rest of us live by.  If you repeatedly and intentionally violate those rules, your handicap should be withdrawn.  If that means you can't play in your brother-in-law's member guest because you don't have a handicap, or don't have proof of handicap to play the Old Course in St. Andrews, its your own choice.  Its simple, really.  If you want a USGA Handicap Index, you follow the rules.

[Groucho Valentine]

34 minutes ago, rehmwa said:

I'm going to name it "Glof"

Glof is a lot more fun:  Glof we just play our own game:  Glof we smile a lot:  Glof we don't have uptight weirdos that think their watches make them better then others:  Glof, we don't have to match shoes and belt, but we also can - it's our choice:  Glof is ok with cargo shorts and baseball caps - or any caps for that matter - or no caps:

It's like Caddy Day at Bushwood - all the time - with the music

We really are great hitters of the glof ball, and great glof putters.  And hit nice glof shots.  (all the while rocking the hats that we're sporting)

That's the attitude - 100% agree.  That's a great glof comment.

I played in a no holds barred thing a few times with a group of people. Get it in the hole at any cost. The only rules where you had to use a club at least once per hole and if you picked up your ball and try to run with it, you had to be two hand touched in order to be stopped. If you got caught you're out for good. A enterprising fellow from he first time we did it hit his drive and ran his ball into the hole before he could be stopped. Got an ace on a 375 yard hole. It was a bucket of fun. 

7 minutes ago, DaveP043 said:

Here's the thing, many of us choose to post our scores in accordance with the rules of the USGA Handicap system.  To me, its a slap in the face when some random individual decides that his personal opinions are more important than the rules that the rest of us live by.  If you repeatedly and intentionally violate those rules, your handicap should be withdrawn.  If that means you can't play in your brother-in-law's member guest because you don't have a handicap, or don't have proof of handicap to play the Old Course in St. Andrews, its your own choice.  Its simple, really.  If you want a USGA Handicap Index, you follow the rules.

The rule is not even remotely important and does nothing but legislate player behavior. USGA overstepped with that one. It deserves to ignored, IMO. 

Edited May 19, 2016 by Groucho Valentine