USGA/R&A study on driving distance

[Lihu]

41 minutes ago, Patch said:

This study seems shoot down the honesty, and integrity associated with golf by the golf equipment manufacturers . 

Of course as golfers, as long we are showing honesty, and integrity on the course, that's all that really matters.

They're probably honest as most people buy the wrong shaft. They get fitted for regular or whatever then buy the wrong one until they get fitted once again for the next model and purchase the wrong shaft once again... :-P

 

[70sSanO]

As far as Jack's comments, Jack was on the Champions tour beginning in 1990.  His last PGA win was in 1986.  From his perspective, there have been definite spikes in distance (per the chart) from oversize era to tour balls.  2003 was not in Jack's era.  I think that his last Champions win was in the mid-90's.

The numbers don't really surprise me as far as averages.  It would be interesting to see the top 5 or 10 long hitters by year.

As for amateurs... I think that is where there is there has been the most impact of new technology.  Not necessarily from 2003 but from the early/mid 90's.  Also, at one time there was the mantra was developing a smooth controlled swing and I can't recall clubhead speed even being a part of the discussion decades ago.  Now it is all about club head speed.

Personally, I don't really want to dial things back.  With my old broken down swing, I am actually not that far off from where I was in the 1980's.

John

Edited June 6, 2016 by 70sSanO

[natureboy]

On 6/5/2016 at 10:03 AM, colin007 said:

So what's the difference between hitting an old persimmon driver on the screws vs hitting a new one dead center? I know the old guys busted them out pretty far occasionally. Isn't there record of Arnie hitting one like 340 once?

I think the post below is the correct one on the old-school distance story. Arnie did drive a par 4 in competition with persimmon, but I think it was at altitude.

On 6/5/2016 at 11:12 AM, NJpatbee said:

I know that Jack hit a 340 plus drive at a long drive contest with a persimmon driver.  Changes to the clubs and balls have made a difference for the pros who hit the sweet spot 99% of the time, but it has made a greater difference to average golfers who take advantage of the larger sweet spot.  I am 64 and can drive the ball as far today using a 460cc Ping as I did 10 years ago using a 320cc Taylor Made.   

Conditions may have factored in too. It was a record heat wave during the '63 PGA Championship, and the fairways were likely baked out. Hole may have had a nice speed slot. Still at the next one he hit ~ 308 in the rain, so I suspect that was all carry.

As I understand it, the soft balata cover tended to generate quite a bit of spin so it was hard to keep the drive from ballooning and losing distance. I suspect Jack would be hitting Bubba / DJ / Jason Day distances if he had grown up with today's technology, maybe even further.

In Hogan's era they could sometimes hit out to 300 yards, but usually that was with a low bullet on really hard fairways with a lot of roll.

The relative distance of the modern driver and ball between now and persimmon is probably in the neighborhood of 30 yards with the peak of PGA average distance around 257 yards in 1980 and the peak around 290 yards in 2015. The tail toward the long side seems to have gotten longer relative to the center of the distribution.

[RandallT]

On 6/6/2016 at 3:38 PM, natureboy said:

 

I'd love to see an animation of how these distributions moved from 1980 to 2015. We know the result would be a creeping over to the right, but it'd be an interesting visualization to show how it gradually crept up (or if certain years it jumped to the right more than others).

[Aflighter]

The pros are getting lots of roll on todays fairways compared to tracks we play on.Even the finest courses we play on are not cut like the ones on tour.

[bplewis24]

1 hour ago, Aflighter said:

The pros are getting lots of roll on todays fairways compared to tracks we play on.Even the finest courses we play on are not cut like the ones on tour.

I do wonder about this myself.  I mostly ignore distances unless they are discussing carry.  Sometimes I see these drives on tour that are admittedly magnificent, but I can see the ball rolling down this beautiful looking fairway for what seems like 75 more yards, and then they mention he just drove it 360.  And I wonder how much roll my drive would have gotten there vs some of the courses I end up playing?

[natureboy]

2 hours ago, RandallT said:

I'd love to see an animation of how these distributions moved from 1980 to 2015. We know the result would be a creeping over to the right, but it'd be an interesting visualization to show how it gradually crept up (or if certain years it jumped to the right more than others).

'The Blob' attacks 300 yards! I'll see what I can do. Will the site animate a gif post?

1 hour ago, Aflighter said:

The pros are getting lots of roll on todays fairways compared to tracks we play on.Even the finest courses we play on are not cut like the ones on tour.

Potentially. But I think unless there's a good runout area it can work against them too. See below.

51 minutes ago, bplewis24 said:

I do wonder about this myself.  I mostly ignore distances unless they are discussing carry.  Sometimes I see these drives on tour that are admittedly magnificent, but I can see the ball rolling down this beautiful looking fairway for what seems like 75 more yards, and then they mention he just drove it 360.  And I wonder how much roll my drive would have gotten there vs some of the courses I end up playing?

If you compare the average total distance from the typical driving holes to the Trackman numbers on average carry for each pro, I think they are typically getting only about 5-6% roll on average. Likely a bit more with 'firm and fast' setups for the Majors.

I think they generally prefer to go with more carry to maximize their distance and also have a bit more control on where the ball comes to rest, but details of the individual hole may affect trajectory strategy. Dufner I think hits it the lowest on average.

Edited June 7, 2016 by natureboy

[Buckeyebowman]

That's one of the things about the "firm and fast" course setup. You love the roll out when it stays in the fairway. But if you're just a little too far to one side or the other, you can carry in the short grass but end up in the rough, where you could be well and truly screwed!

The fast track giveth, and the fast track taketh away!

[natureboy]

7 hours ago, RandallT said:

I'd love to see an animation of how these distributions moved from 1980 to 2015. We know the result would be a creeping over to the right, but it'd be an interesting visualization to show how it gradually crept up (or if certain years it jumped to the right more than others).

Here's my attempt in two different speeds to get differing looks at the movements.

                                           

The general patterns I see:

• a shift of the mean to greater avg distance between 1994 & 2003
• early 90's distance gains seem relatively steady, larger jumps in late 90's early 00's
• variance around a fairly stable average pre-1990 and post 2005
• a relative flattening of the distribution (lower central peak / flatter top end of cumulative distribution) starting around 2000

Some notable bumps:

• larger than typical change for 90's annual distance gains between 1997 & 1998
• big shift in the whole distribution between 2000 & 2001
• largest shift of any between 2002 & 2003 both moving the peak forward and flattening its height significantly

Edited June 8, 2016 by natureboy

[RandallT]

That's an incredible gif, @natureboy. I love the faster speed graphic. I may PM you, but I'm interested in where to get the source data in a format you could use, and I really have no idea how to create an animated gif. Good stuff. The blob moving toward 300 is cool. The blob definitely looks to have been slowed down, which is the whole point of the thread, of course. 

[natureboy]

On 6/8/2016 at 7:56 AM, RandallT said:

That's an incredible gif, @natureboy. I love the faster speed graphic. I may PM you, but I'm interested in where to get the source data in a format you could use, and I really have no idea how to create an animated gif. Good stuff. The blob moving toward 300 is cool. The blob definitely looks to have been slowed down, which is the whole point of the thread, of course. 

I found some articles that point to the 2002-2003 jump to a dual cause: the introduction of the Pro V1x (plus maybe further adoption of the Pro V1) along with more widespread adoption of 460cc driver heads. Manufacturers rushed to put products out that could be grandfathered under the limits being considered (later adopted) by the USGA at the time and any possible subsequent reductions.

The relative flattening of the distribution makes me wonder if a gain in average is still likely to come. In the early 80's the technology was fairly uniform and the spread between top and bottom was tighter with more players close to the mode. I wonder if there won't be over time a return to that narrower and taller distribution over time, which will increase the average as the field maximizes the available technology?

Spoiler

 

http://www.pgatour.com/stats/stat.101.html

http://gifcreator.me/

 

 

[SG11118]

I'm arriving late to an interesting discussion.  It also seems like the tours have been gradually working their way towards giving the younger (and likely more fit) players spots in their tournaments at the expense of some of the 35-50 year olds.  Probably not as big of a factor as advances in club fitting, ball technology, and fairway speed.