How do you overcome the 'complainer'?

[Jeremie Boop]

1 hour ago, tdiii said:

I'm being hard on you with the hope the message gets through as to how miserable it is for others to be around you -- I'm assuming you act as my friend acts.  There is nothing wrong, in the veiw of almost everyone, with a loud curse (or two) followed by a laugh.  Even a club spiking, if followed with self-deprecating comments and a good nature.  It is the carrying on that gets to others. 

Kudos to you for at least acknowledging the behavior (or is it "behaviour", because your Canadian?) is poor and working to improve.  Really, I mean it. 

If you knew that at the end of a round a check for $10,000,000 was waiting for you -- but you had to behave well for the whole round -- you'd find a way to not act out.  That shows you are making a choice.  Make a better choice.

Good luck and have fun out there!!

I'll let @mcanadiens off the hook here a bit. I've played with him several times, and while he does get upset he's not over the top about it. He does toss a club, curse a bit, generally berates himself quietly, but he's not that bad. I don't have much problem getting him back to even keel, and like you said, it's good he knows that it's a problem. But he's far from the worst I've seen.

[Lihu]

2 minutes ago, Fairway_CY said:

I was just hoping there was a magic key someone had to help me deal with it the next time it comes up... plus, I was venting a little to you guys.  So... I guess now that I've got it off my chest, I can move on. 

Yeah, just keep posting. It makes for interesting discussions, anyway.

[mcanadiens]

1 minute ago, Jeremie Boop said:

I'll let @mcanadiens off the hook here a bit. I've played with him several times, and while he does get upset he's not over the top about it. He does toss a club, curse a bit, generally berates himself quietly, but he's not that bad. I don't have much problem getting him back to even keel, and like you said, it's good he knows that it's a problem. But he's far from the worst I've seen.

The thing is you are one of the guys I have an easier time staying calm around. That's part of the reason I like playing with you and @CarlSpackler so much. I have a much harder time around certain other people (no one from TST).

[Lihu]

21 minutes ago, mcanadiens said:

The thing is you are one of the guys I have an easier time staying calm around. That's part of the reason I like playing with you and @CarlSpackler so much. I have a much harder time around certain other people (no one from TST).

What sort of people do you have a difficult time playing with? Some people just rub others the wrong way no matter who you are. It's not just you who could get easily aggravated by them, but others as well. It's just how one reacts outwardly, I suppose?

In any case, you're in with good company. They're definite keepers, except @CarlSpackler is moving to Orlando.

Try playing with @cipher and @saevel25 as well they are the nicest most helpful golfers you could ever play with anywhere.

[mcanadiens]

6 minutes ago, Lihu said:

What sort of people do you have a difficult time playing with? Some people just rub others the wrong way no matter who you are. It's not just you who could get easily aggravated by them, but others as well. It's just how we react outwardly, I suppose.

In any case, you're in with good company. They're definite keepers, except @CarlSpackler is moving to Orlando.

Try playing with @cipher and @saevel25 as well they are the nicest most helpful golfers you could ever play with anywhere.

I'll miss @CarlSpackler, but it sounds like a good move for him.

We have played with @saevel25 a time or two. Come to think of it, I think we were in the same cart at the TST Norwalk event the other year. Frankly I think the guy is way too good to have to stare at my swing a whole lot. Not sure if I ever met @cipher. 

[mcanadiens]

1 hour ago, Lihu said:

What sort of people do you have a difficult time playing with? Some people just rub others the wrong way no matter who you are. It's not just you who could get easily aggravated by them, but others as well. It's just how one reacts outwardly, I suppose?

Sorry. Didn't answer the first question.

Not everyone fits nicely into categories but those that do are 1) cheaters, 2) advice givers and 3) slow players. Unfortunately a close family friend is No. 1 and 2 at the same time. I've tried to dodge him as much as possible, but can't do it completely without causing a big issue. The past few times I've had some success with a rather elaborate psych job on myself and filling the air with as much discussion about football as humanly possible. By success, I mean no major incidents.

Slow play (which may not have anything to do with my partners) when coupled with my struggling, has always been very hard to deal with. The longer I have to think about my last bad shot or shots, the worse my temper gets. If I can just hit another ball quickly, its way easier to put it behind me.

[Lihu]

9 minutes ago, mcanadiens said:

Sorry. Didn't answer the first question.

Not everyone fits nicely into categories but those that do are 1) cheaters, 2) advice givers and 3) slow players. Unfortunately a close family friend is No. 1 and 2 at the same time. I've tried to dodge him as much as possible, but can't do it completely without causing a big issue. The past few times I've had some success with a rather elaborate psych job on myself and filling the air with as much discussion about football as humanly possible. By success, I mean no major incidents.

Don't forget the "I do things the smart/better/correct way" types?

I had one of the "I do things the correct" way types play from 30 yards closer than me and implying that I should be playing the same tees, but only to have me another 30 yards past him the entire round. That was the perfect round for my driver to behave! I can never hate my driver after that round no matter what mess it gets me into.

 

Quote

Slow play (which may not have anything to do with my partners) when coupled with my struggling, has always been very hard to deal with. The longer I have to think about my last bad shot or shots, the worse my temper gets. If I can just hit another ball quickly, its way easier to put in behind me.

Yes, I know all about the long wait.

So, I play "Angry Birds" while waiting for people from just far enough they can't hear the cawing of the birds, and let out occasional signs of exuberance whenever I get a high score. That usually speeds them up.

[mcanadiens]

37 minutes ago, Lihu said:

Don't forget the "I do things the smart/better/correct way" types?

That's kind of what I meant by advice givers. This friggin guy, man of the 6-stroke par and no-penalty drops, is forever telling me how to swing a golf club. He actually hit me with "the surest sign of insanity" line a few rounds ago. I'm really not sure how I'm not in a rubber room yet. 

[WUTiger]

On 6/14/2016 at 2:48 PM, Fairway_CY said:

 ... The last straw came on the next hole where he hit his ball from a jumpy lie in the rough and it carried beyond the green and landed in some plants.  He wanted to talk to the groundskeeper to chew him out about these plants because his ball was unplayable.  He spent the next 3 minutes around the green stomping, throwing clubs, yelling at the ground and slamming the pin into the hole... then the following 5 minutes until we were able to tee off on the next hole just being miserable. ... 

I'm not the type to tell someone to shut up... but I was close. ...

Consider that you and the other two more pleasant golfers might be guilty of enabling bad behavior in Mr. Mouth.

As a former caddie, I see the "stomping, throwing.. and slamming" as unacceptable behavior. It's not only bad sportsmanship, but the angry man could injure others or damage the course.

If a strict course marshall sees this, your pal could get thrown off the course, and you other three would not exactly be endeared to the marshall.

Since you're a dad, see if you can get Mr. Mouth to take a "time out" and recompose himself. Then, after the round, talk with the other two and see if Mr. Mouth needs to sit out the rest of the season, at least with your group.

[UnfairWay]

I never get particularly upset, except a quick swear to myself, maybe in part because I'm a really bad golfer so I don't expect to play many good shots! One thing I do know, from years of playing sport (not just golf), is that losing control a) never makes you play better and b) never makes you enjoy playing more.

I don't play competitively, so that probably helps. It's also important to play with the right people; the atmosphere of the group I play with is that someone else will often make a rude comment about my bad shot before I have, so I don't have a chance to take myself to seriously. Not for everyone that approach, but it's how my group interact and it works for us to keep us all grounded.

[Mr. Desmond]

Take a video of him, show it to him, and threaten to put his meltdowns on youtube or FB if he doesn't lighten up.

Tell him that he's not good enough to get mad ... at least that's what I now tell myself ... then I smile. Think of the endorphins.

I've started smiling before I take my stance and poor results don't matter that much. Just march on to the next shot.

[Lihu]

3 minutes ago, Mr. Desmond said:

Take a video of him, show it to him, and threaten to put his meltdowns on youtube or FB if he doesn't lighten up.

Tell him that he's not good enough to get mad ... at least that's what I now tell myself ... then I smile. Think of the endorphins.

I've started smiling before I take my stance and poor results don't matter that much. Just march on to the next shot.

Not sure this helps reduce another golfer's anger?

It seems to be more or less a passive aggressive means to get back at someone for making the round unpleasant by their outburst than anything else.

I would just let him know after he's cooled down a bit that "That's golf."

 

[Mr. Desmond]

2 hours ago, Lihu said:

Not sure this helps reduce another golfer's anger?

It seems to be more or less a passive aggressive means to get back at someone for making the round unpleasant by their outburst than anything else.

I would just let him know after he's cooled down a bit that "That's golf."

 

Not at all. Almost none of us are good enough to get angry.

If he can't handle the truth, maybe he ought to take up another game.

You've got to confront that golfer with the truth -- he will get it or not get it. If he doesn't get it, you don't play with him. Not a loss on  your part.

What is passive aggressive is not saying anything and then not calling him to play with you.

Of course, you can wait until after the round and then tell him/show him his behavior, and then say if you can't control your temper, you're not playing with me.

You are an engineer, aren't you? After dealing with engineers for 25 years when they come for legal advice, many have difficulty coping with the irrational behavior of humans. I mean, we all have some difficulty, but because of their work, and the search for logic, engineers have more difficulty, I've found, than other professionals.

Except for @Golfingdad, of course... lol.

Edited June 16, 2016 by Mr. Desmond

[Lihu]

11 minutes ago, Mr. Desmond said:

Not at all. Almost none of us are good enough to get angry.

If he can't handle the truth, maybe he ought to take up another game.

You've got to confront that golfer with the truth -- he will get it or not get it. If he doesn't get it, you don't play with him. Not a loss on  your part.

What is passive aggressive is not saying anything and then not calling him to play with you.

Of course, you can wait until after the round and then tell him/show him his behavior, and then say if you can't control your temper, you're not playing with me.

I agree that none of us are good enough to get angry, but I can imagine that if someone is already upset and throwing stuff around I probably wouldn't want to do anything to draw his attention away from him thumping the ground with a club, that's all. I'm not trying to contradict what you are saying. I'm just cautioning against not suddenly becoming the focus of someone's rage.

 

Quote

You are an engineer, aren't you? After dealing with engineers for 25 years when they come for legal advice, many have difficulty coping with the irrational behavior of humans. I mean, we all have some difficulty, but because of their work, and the search for logic, engineers have more difficulty, I've found, than other professionals.

Yeah, admittedly this is true, but I think it's more about knowing how to communicate emotions in a rational way. Remember that there is a good reason for this as well. Many if not most engineers chose engineering because they had trouble interacting with other people while growing up.

[Mr. Desmond]

16 minutes ago, Lihu said:

I agree that none of us are good enough to get angry, but I can imagine that if someone is already upset and throwing stuff around I probably wouldn't want to do anything to draw his attention away from him thumping the ground with a club, that's all. I'm not trying to contradict what you are saying. I'm just cautioning against not suddenly becoming the focus of someone's rage.

 

Well, if you choose to play with a bipolar schizophreniac, then yes, wait until after the round when you are in the car, it is started, you are driving off while he is still putting clubs in the car and say, "By the way, if you don't mind, I took some video today of our game. I will send it to you. Have a great life." And then drive away quickly.

[Lihu]

4 minutes ago, Mr. Desmond said:

Well, if you choose to play with a bipolar schizophreniac, then yes, wait until after the round when you are in the car, it is started, you are driving off while he is still putting clubs in the car and say, "By the way, if you don't mind, I took some video today of our game. I will send it to you. Have a great life." And then drive away quickly.

And post it on the internet before he hunts you down.

[CarlSpackler]

23 hours ago, mcanadiens said:

I'll miss @CarlSpackler, but it sounds like a good move for him.

We have played with @saevel25 a time or two. Come to think of it, I think we were in the same cart at the TST Norwalk event the other year. Frankly I think the guy is way too good to have to stare at my swing a whole lot. Not sure if I ever met @cipher. 

Thanks @mcanadiens. I will miss you guys too. Hopefully we can get out one last time.

[mcanadiens]

Maybe in part because of this thread, I made a rather particular effort at remaining calm during my round yesterday. I was alone, which is actually when I have the most difficulty maintaining my temper. The result itself wasn't bad. A 94 on a course where I usually shoot between 93 and 103 on any given day. It was definitely more enjoyable that many rounds I've had in that circumstance.

My best moment came on the very first hole. Split the fairway with the drive only to follow it up with a god-awful hook into a hazard. After one deep breath, I dropped a ball on the spot and whacked it to five feet of the hole to save bogey.  Many days a splash on shot #2 would have been the beginning of the end. 

Was consciously thinking about remaining calm what helped me actually stay calm? Maybe I was just relatively calm to start with. Not real sure.